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OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do

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Online  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#21

Posted: July 08, 2019, 2:51 PM Post
Posts: 4577
Location: New Berlin, WI
Wahoo Maniac said:
I'd focus on one trade. Stroman and Giles package. It's 1 move but feels like 2 given Houser gets bumped to the pen bolstering it with Giles. I'd look at using Arcia and Peralta as MLB guys to include in the package.


I actually like this a lot. I think they have Bichette penciled in at SS of the future, but I could see them liking Peralta as the feature piece. Obviously we'd need probably 1 more good prospect included in the deal and probably some lesser prospects. Peralta + Ray + some smaller stuff. I wonder if that's enough. Might need more as other teams may bid on the same package.


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Online  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#22

Posted: July 08, 2019, 3:14 PM Post
Posts: 1988
Wahoo Maniac said:
I'd focus on one trade. Stroman and Giles package. It's 1 move but feels like 2 given Houser gets bumped to the pen bolstering it with Giles. I'd look at using Arcia and Peralta as MLB guys to include in the package.


Just don’t see Stearns going after a name starter, too many buyers to bid vs.

Giles I could see him try to land.


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Offline  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#23

Posted: July 08, 2019, 3:24 PM Post
Posts: 4217
Location: Madison, WI
Greg Holland could be a really cheap one to grab. Was good last year once he got out of STL and has been good again this year. Striking out over 10 per 9. 1.2 WHIP, not great but not brutal. Seems to be getting a bit lucky as he has a high FIP. Not saying he's a Knebel type guy like last year, but sure would be a solid improvement to our current lot and not cost much.

Something like him him and Will Smith would reshape things greatly.


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Offline  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#24

Posted: July 08, 2019, 7:24 PM Post
Posts: 1260
You people run too scared about giving up prospects. It's not like they will end up being the next Nolan Ryan or Ken Griffey Jr. Who cares what they COULD become, that's in the future. You play to win now. Give up what you have to give up to improve your team anyway that you can THIS year, and worry about next year and future years when they come. I couldn't care less about the prospects they'd give up...gve up Arcia and Peralta and Corbin Burnes too if you have to..I want to see them win NOW. The future is never guaranteed.


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Online  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#25

Posted: July 08, 2019, 7:26 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
Brewcrewin07 said:
You people run too scared about giving up prospects. It's not like they will end up being the next Nolan Ryan or Ken Griffey Jr. Who cares what they COULD become, that's in the future. You play to win now. Give up what you have to give up to improve your team anyway that you can THIS year, and worry about next year and future years when they come. I couldn't care less about the prospects they'd give up...gve up Arcia and Peralta and Corbin Burnes too if you have to..I want to see them win NOW. The future is never guaranteed.


But what do you do when you have no one coming in the pipeline because you have shopped them all? The Brewers cannot afford to do the free agent way for their 40 man roster. There has to be a balance.


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Offline  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#26

Posted: July 08, 2019, 7:40 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
You people run too scared about giving up prospects. It's not like they will end up being the next Nolan Ryan or Ken Griffey Jr. Who cares what they COULD become, that's in the future. You play to win now. Give up what you have to give up to improve your team anyway that you can THIS year, and worry about next year and future years when they come. I couldn't care less about the prospects they'd give up...gve up Arcia and Peralta and Corbin Burnes too if you have to..I want to see them win NOW. The future is never guaranteed.


But what do you do when you have no one coming in the pipeline because you have shopped them all? The Brewers cannot afford to do the free agent way for their 40 man roster. There has to be a balance.


And what do you do if very few of the prospects ever develop into anything better than a good /decent major leaguer?? You're going to be bad for several years under either scenario. I don't even have to think twice about giving up any number of prospects for proven major leaguers. When you have the chance to do big things, you take that chance and don't think twice about it.


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Offline  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#27

Posted: July 08, 2019, 7:53 PM Post
Posts: 3400
Brewcrewin07 said:
You people run too scared about giving up prospects. It's not like they will end up being the next Nolan Ryan or Ken Griffey Jr. Who cares what they COULD become, that's in the future. You play to win now. Give up what you have to give up to improve your team anyway that you can THIS year, and worry about next year and future years when they come. I couldn't care less about the prospects they'd give up...gve up Arcia and Peralta and Corbin Burnes too if you have to..I want to see them win NOW. The future is never guaranteed.

This would be an incredibly harmful way to run a franchise like Milwaukee. Sometimes instant gratification isn't the answer.

but it's not like every guy suddenly forgot every piece of advice he gave


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Offline  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#28

Posted: July 08, 2019, 8:05 PM Post
Posts: 1260
82brewcrew82 said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
You people run too scared about giving up prospects. It's not like they will end up being the next Nolan Ryan or Ken Griffey Jr. Who cares what they COULD become, that's in the future. You play to win now. Give up what you have to give up to improve your team anyway that you can THIS year, and worry about next year and future years when they come. I couldn't care less about the prospects they'd give up...gve up Arcia and Peralta and Corbin Burnes too if you have to..I want to see them win NOW. The future is never guaranteed.

This would be an incredibly harmful way to run a franchise like Milwaukee. Sometimes instant gratification isn't the answer.


And what happens if you never have the window you do now in your lifetime?? There are no guarantees. Try to capitalize on the opportunities you have in front of you, because they may never present themselves again.


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Online  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#29

Posted: July 08, 2019, 8:15 PM Post
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What window? Yelich? He’s not going anywhere. It’s not like they have some stud rotation that’s going to keep some window open.


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Offline  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#30

Posted: July 08, 2019, 8:32 PM Post
Posts: 1260
Brew4U said:
What window? Yelich? He’s not going anywhere. It’s not like they have some stud rotation that’s going to keep some window open.


As long as Yelich is under team control...that's your window(potentially). But right now..As long as the Cubs are being mediocre, that's your window. As long as you are within a 1/2 game of the division, that's your window. Can you guarantee they will be in the same position next year, especially if Moose and Grandal are gone?? Or the year after that?? or the year after that?? As long as Yelich is still under contract, you owe it to him, his teammates and the fans to do EVERYTHING you can to win a World Series. Are any of the prospects currently in the minors going to be major contributors to the Brewers so long as Yelich is here?? HIGHLY doubtful. There value is trade value that can bring pieces to help the big league club now.

That's another good point...everyone says the Brewers don't have the pieces to make "big" trades at the deadline..Yet, these are the same players that everyone is pining their future hopes on. If they aren't good enough to bring back what they need now, it's highly unlikely they will be good enough in a couple of years to make major contributions.


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Online  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#31

Posted: July 08, 2019, 8:35 PM Post
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There's no prospect that's untouchable for me in the right deal.

If we're acquiring a player with multiple years of control at a position of need I'd be fine dealing Turang, Lutz, Grisham, Rasmussen, Ashby, whoever if Stearns & company think we're getting good value back.

For a rental though? No way.

My best guess is Stearns & company will do the same thing they did last deadline & deal prospects they view as superfluous for minor upgrades around the margins.


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Offline  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#32

Posted: July 08, 2019, 9:56 PM Post
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Brewcrewin07 said:
You people run too scared about giving up prospects. It's not like they will end up being the next Nolan Ryan or Ken Griffey Jr. Who cares what they COULD become, that's in the future. You play to win now. Give up what you have to give up to improve your team anyway that you can THIS year, and worry about next year and future years when they come. I couldn't care less about the prospects they'd give up...gve up Arcia and Peralta and Corbin Burnes too if you have to..I want to see them win NOW. The future is never guaranteed.


UGH!

Just...UGH!


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Offline  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#33

Posted: July 08, 2019, 9:59 PM Post
Posts: 93
Location: Mequon
KeithStone53151 said:
Wahoo Maniac said:
I'd focus on one trade. Stroman and Giles package. It's 1 move but feels like 2 given Houser gets bumped to the pen bolstering it with Giles. I'd look at using Arcia and Peralta as MLB guys to include in the package.


I actually like this a lot. I think they have Bichette penciled in at SS of the future, but I could see them liking Peralta as the feature piece. Obviously we'd need probably 1 more good prospect included in the deal and probably some lesser prospects. Peralta + Ray + some smaller stuff. I wonder if that's enough. Might need more as other teams may bid on the same package.

Bichette is playing SS but based on scouting more people tend to think he ends up at 2b. If they add a clear upgrade defensively at SS in Arcia it’s an easy bump as Biggio can always play 1b or OF as they’re grooming him to be utility.

Peralta I personally rank behind Burnes which is why I’m including him here. He’s had some MLB success, is super young and has 5.5yrs control so they can throw him in the rotation immediately. Add prospects not named Turang to get it done.

For the rest of 2019 and 2020 we add Stroman to the rotation replacing Houser who then heads to the pen where he’s dominated while Giles replaces Peralta in pen and Dubon takes over SS. Upgrades everywhere.

I understand Stearns covets young controllable players but at some point he needs to move one of them to bolster our chances for 2019/2020 as these are our best chances in the near term to win a WS.


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Offline  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#34

Posted: July 08, 2019, 10:06 PM Post
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Location: Mequon
Brew4U said:
What window? Yelich? He’s not going anywhere. It’s not like they have some stud rotation that’s going to keep some window open.

Yelich is signed through 2022. He’s going to be making 30-35M annually and we’re not paying that. He needs to be moved after 2020 or 2021 at the very latest. That’s your current window to compete. Trading him and Hader when they still have some control will net you (6) Top 100 caliber players whether they’re young MLB guys with 5-6yrs control or prospects still. That’s your next window right there with no rebuild as it’ll be a super quick turnaround


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Offline  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#35

Posted: July 09, 2019, 6:00 AM Post
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Brewcrewin07 said:
But right now..As long as the Cubs are being mediocre, that's your window. .


The funny thing is, the Cubs are only mediocre because of the bad moves they made to win one WS which drastically cut the window they had. A team like Milwaukee has to have more balance. If you want to go all in and win one just to win one like the 108-year drought team did, it will likely come at the cost of success beyond that.


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Online  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#36

Posted: July 09, 2019, 6:13 AM Post
Posts: 1988
Brewcrewin07 said:
82brewcrew82 said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
You people run too scared about giving up prospects. It's not like they will end up being the next Nolan Ryan or Ken Griffey Jr. Who cares what they COULD become, that's in the future. You play to win now. Give up what you have to give up to improve your team anyway that you can THIS year, and worry about next year and future years when they come. I couldn't care less about the prospects they'd give up...gve up Arcia and Peralta and Corbin Burnes too if you have to..I want to see them win NOW. The future is never guaranteed.

This would be an incredibly harmful way to run a franchise like Milwaukee. Sometimes instant gratification isn't the answer.


And what happens if you never have the window you do now in your lifetime?? There are no guarantees. Try to capitalize on the opportunities you have in front of you, because they may never present themselves again.


Exactly.
What about the older crowd, the retired, the longest tenured fans of the team. Do we do to them what the Cubbies did to their fans?

For you youngins out there, if you have a father or grandfather or even great grandfather that’s been a brewer fan most of their lives, they can’t help but look at things differently than you do. The win now mentality has an obvious meaning to them that it doesn’t to most of you. That’s why Bud Selig should take precedence over any of us, being this team is his child. I want to win the WS, but more so for him and Uek, than for me. We can’t be the lovable losers 2.0. This message is meant more for the heart of Mark Attanasio than David Stearns.


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Offline  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#37

Posted: July 09, 2019, 6:20 AM Post
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sveumrules said:
There's no prospect that's untouchable for me in the right deal.

If we're acquiring a player with multiple years of control at a position of need I'd be fine dealing Turang, Lutz, Grisham, Rasmussen, Ashby, whoever if Stearns & company think we're getting good value back.

For a rental though? No way.

My best guess is Stearns & company will do the same thing they did last deadline & deal prospects they view as superfluous for minor upgrades around the margins.

It will be interesting to see what they ultimately do with Devin Williams. He has to be put on the 40-man roster this off-season in order to be protected from the Rule 5 draft. Typically those type of players are prime candidates to be traded, but there is also a chance they have plans to give him a shot in the bullpen at some point in the near future.

The Athletic did an article Sunday on the 8 participants in the MLB Futures Game that were most likely to be traded this month. It included Devin Williams. A couple of snippets from that article:

“Williams wasn’t on too many people’s radar when the season started, but after a tremendous first half, scouts from opposing teams are raving about him and think he’ll pitch in the big leagues this year”.... “Now he’s back, with an overpowering fastball and nasty breaking ball. If his command and control arrive, he could end up being a huge surprise, and he’s definitely a prospect worth taking a chance on at this year’s trade deadline.”

So certainly a possibility as a trade chip, but also someone the Brewers might believe can be part of their bullpen either later this year or by next year.


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Online  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#38

Posted: July 09, 2019, 9:24 AM Post
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The funny thing is, the Cubs are only mediocre because of the bad moves they made to win one WS which drastically cut the window they had. A team like Milwaukee has to have more balance. If you want to go all in and win one just to win one like the 108-year drought team did, it will likely come at the cost of success beyond that.


That's actually not accurate. The only prospect of note the Cubs traded before winning the World Series was Gleyber Torres. Where the Cubs traded away their minor league depth was defending their World Series title and defending their division title last year.

Since winning the world series they made the following trades:

Dan Vogelbach and Paul Blackburn for Mike Montgomery
Jorge Soler for Wade Davis.
Dylan Cease and Eloy Jimenez for Jose Quintana
Jeimar Candelario for Justin Wilson

The players they picked up last year: Cole Hamels, Daniel Murphy and Brandon Kintzler they basically absorbed the salary commitments to those players and gave up fringe prospects from the low minor leagues. The Cubs are in the spot they are in because Epstein hasn't been able to replicate his draft success from Boston. He did pick Kris Bryant third overall (but I imagine 29 other baseball execs would have too). His other first round picks include one player who is solid: Kyle Schwarber, a platoon CFer in Albert Almora and several busts and of course some prospects where its too early to tell. None of Epstein's 2nd round picks have made an impact with the Cubs, and the only other Epstein Cubs draft pick to see significant time is 18th rounder David Bote.

How this applies to the Brewers is they've already traded away more prospects than the Cubs (although some of those Cubs prospects were of higher quality) to acquire Swarzak, Yelich, Soria, Moustakas and Schoop. They traded Ryan Cordell, Lewis Brinson, Jordan Yamamoto, Isan Diaz, Monte Harrison, Kodi Medeiros, Jorge Lopez, Brett Phillips, Luis Ortiz and Jean Carmona. So the next wave of Milwaukee prospects is already gone. Further, as Epstein has proven its much harder to find blue chip prospects when drafting near the bottom of the round.

I don't think the Brewers system is stocked with many blue chippers to begin with, and the window to compete is not going to get any more open. Therefore the GM has to balance where he feels the team is and where they can go, and if the deal makes sense I wouldn't hesitate pulling the trigger wondering about an inevitable rebuild that will likely occur after Stearns is already gone or on the way out.


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Offline  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#39

Posted: July 09, 2019, 1:26 PM Post
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Now we keep on going without winning a WS maybe there a time you go all in for it and not worry about the Future since so far the Future has not been anything good to us.


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Offline  Re: OK at the Break what does David Stearns need to do
#40

Posted: July 10, 2019, 12:29 AM Post
Posts: 4396
sveumrules said:
There's no prospect that's untouchable for me in the right deal.

If we're acquiring a player with multiple years of control at a position of need I'd be fine dealing Turang, Lutz, Grisham, Rasmussen, Ashby, whoever if Stearns & company think we're getting good value back.

For a rental though? No way.

My best guess is Stearns & company will do the same thing they did last deadline & deal prospects they view as superfluous for minor upgrades around the margins.


Agreed.

Some prospects (Turang, Grisham, Ashby, Rasmussen, Supak) would require a king's ransom of sorts in return.


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