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Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help

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Offline  Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help
#1

Posted: July 28, 2019, 8:53 AM Post
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Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports that the Brewers have entertained the idea of trading Mike Moustakas or Yasmani Grandal in order to add a starter.

Rosenthal notes that "it’s unclear whether the concept has advanced beyond internal discussions," so perhaps the possibility of them dealing either impending free agent isn't high. That said, the Brewers might need to get creative in their quest to add rotation help, as their farm system is viewed as one of the weakest in the game.

Source: The Athletic
Jul 28, 2019, 10:41 AM ET


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#2

Posted: July 28, 2019, 8:56 AM Post
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[laughing] [laughing] [laughing]

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#3

Posted: July 28, 2019, 8:59 AM Post
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Ugh...No no no...Find...another way..DS. Even if he hasn't pitched well, Burnes should have more value because of his control than Grandal or Moose as impending FA's. Just go get a decent "filler" arm(s) then. Shaw should have some value as well...I'd rather trade him and resign Moose. I guess I don't understand why you would "rob peter to pay Paul". You maybe take care of one problem, but create another by doing this.

If this is what they would have to do...then I'd rather see them stand pat, and see if you can just get like an Ivan Nova or someone that won't cost much. Although, I will say IF IF they are really dangling those two, then Stearns HAS to be thinking bigger type move because guys who are "just guys" you certainly could get with a couple pieces from the system.


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#4

Posted: July 28, 2019, 9:20 AM Post
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Brewcrewin07 said:
Ugh...No no no...Find...another way..DS. Even if he hasn't pitched well, Burnes should have more value because of his control than Grandal or Moose as impending FA's. Just go get a decent "filler" arm(s) then. Shaw should have some value as well...I'd rather trade him and resign Moose. I guess I don't understand why you would "rob peter to pay Paul". You maybe take care of one problem, but create another by doing this.

If this is what they would have to do...then I'd rather see them stand pat, and see if you can just get like an Ivan Nova or someone that won't cost much. Although, I will say IF IF they are really dangling those two, then Stearns HAS to be thinking bigger type move because guys who are "just guys" you certainly could get with a couple pieces from the system.


“Just go get”... those three little words are doing a lot of work here. I’m not privy to negotiations, of course, but I’ll throw this out there: what if the teams selling these “filler” arms don’t like much of what we’ve got going on in the minors? If this front office is getting creative, they must be seeing something that prompts it. They wouldn’t trade a guy(s) with wRC+ 120 for poops and giggles.

What is best in life? To crush the Cardinals, Cubs, and Manny Machado, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their fanboys.


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#5

Posted: July 28, 2019, 9:30 AM Post
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Harvey'sWBs said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
Ugh...No no no...Find...another way..DS. Even if he hasn't pitched well, Burnes should have more value because of his control than Grandal or Moose as impending FA's. Just go get a decent "filler" arm(s) then. Shaw should have some value as well...I'd rather trade him and resign Moose. I guess I don't understand why you would "rob peter to pay Paul". You maybe take care of one problem, but create another by doing this.

If this is what they would have to do...then I'd rather see them stand pat, and see if you can just get like an Ivan Nova or someone that won't cost much. Although, I will say IF IF they are really dangling those two, then Stearns HAS to be thinking bigger type move because guys who are "just guys" you certainly could get with a couple pieces from the system.


“Just go get”... those three little words are doing a lot of work here. I’m not privy to negotiations, of course, but I’ll throw this out there: what if the teams selling these “filler” arms don’t like much of what we’ve got going on in the minors? If this front office is getting creative, they must be seeing something that prompts it. They wouldn’t trade a guy(s) with wRC+ 120 for poops and giggles.


They are "filler" arms...what can you possibly be asking for an Ivan Nova or someone like that?? Couple of lower level minor leaguers. Look what Jake Diekman went for..pennies on the dollar. Now granted he's a reliever but still, he should bring back more than what he did, and certainly more than what someone like Ivan Nova would ring back. IF they are considering trading Moose/Grandal then I would think it has to be for more than just "filler" arms, part of a package for someone bigger. Just my opinion.

The other thing is...if teams are selling, who on earth would want/need Grandal/Moose for the rest of a year to play out the string and then lose them at the end of the year?? I could see them having value to a contender, but then a contender isn't trading an arm to you for those guys.


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#6

Posted: July 28, 2019, 9:34 AM Post
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Our minor league system is now last ranked in the majors by BA.

I think you need to explore all options........doesn't mean you do it......those guys are gone next year anyway and we aren't going anywhere with this starting staff as currently constituted .

It will be an interesting few days.


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#7

Posted: July 28, 2019, 9:34 AM Post
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He (Stearns) probably got a lot of phone calls about those two when it looked for sure that we would be sellers after the Reds series, gauged the market, and is reporting his due diligence to Mark A.


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Online  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#8

Posted: July 28, 2019, 10:15 AM Post
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I don't see why this wouldn't be considered. Especially if Stearns is thinking that he won't resign Moustakas because the next off-season investments will be going towards pitching, not hitting.

There is very little doubt that the Mets would likely give Todd Frazier away for next to nothing just to clear 3 million from their books. Frazier is hitting .246/.328/.445/.773 with half those games in a tough hitters park. His road OPS is .800. If the Brewers don't have the prospects to land pitching, I don't see why it would be such a crazy idea to use Moustakas to get some pitching and then trade a fringe prospect for Frazier. There is no question that his bat is a downgrade compared to Moustakas...but if Moustakas can bring back the pitching they need.....

San Francisco has likely gone from seller to buyer, but if they like Moustakas as a 2B....that's one of their biggest holes and they have bullpen arms the Brewers could definitely use.


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#9

Posted: July 28, 2019, 10:47 AM Post
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The only way it would work is if you flip Grandal and/or Moustakas for minor league players then package those players along with your own minor league players to add starting pitching and hope the impacts is: new starter > Moustakas and grandal.

Risky, but if the decision makers believe the current roster make up isn’t good enough to get to the playoffs, why not try? You either fail to make it with Moustakas and Grandal or fail to make it with some new pitchers


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Online  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#10

Posted: July 28, 2019, 11:19 AM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
I don't see why the following scenario would be out of line for any of the following teams.

Brewers obtain: LHRP - Will Smith
Giants obtain: 2B-Mike Moustakas, 3 million dollars (to cover the mutual buyout)

Brewers obtain: 3B-Todd Frazier, 1.5 million dollars
Mets obtain: RHRP-Rodrigo Benoit

Giants lose Will Smith but still have Melancon, Watson, Moronta and Dyson to pick up late innings. Giant's second basemen have slashed .243/.308/.329/.637, so adding Moustakas' .864 OPS seems like more than adequate compensation for losing the bullpen contributions of Smith.

Brewers remove an .864 OPS from the lineup and would be replacing it with a .773 OPS with some upside moving from Citi Field to Miller Park. They obtain a major bullpen upgrade to go along with the lineup downgrade.

Mets may be sending the Brewers 1.5 million but they still save 1.5 million in this swap and Frazier has no value to them at this point.


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#11

Posted: July 28, 2019, 11:32 AM Post
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JosephC said:
I don't see why the following scenario would be out of line for any of the following teams.

Brewers obtain: LHRP - Will Smith
Giants obtain: 2B-Mike Moustakas, 3 million dollars (to cover the mutual buyout)

Brewers obtain: 3B-Todd Frazier, 1.5 million dollars
Mets obtain: RHRP-Rodrigo Benoit

Giants lose Will Smith but still have Melancon, Watson, Moronta and Dyson to pick up late innings. Giant's second basemen have slashed .243/.308/.329/.637, so adding Moustakas' .864 OPS seems like more than adequate compensation for losing the bullpen contributions of Smith.

Brewers remove an .864 OPS from the lineup and would be replacing it with a .773 OPS with some upside moving from Citi Field to Miller Park. They obtain a major bullpen upgrade to go along with the lineup downgrade.

Mets may be sending the Brewers 1.5 million but they still save 1.5 million in this swap and Frazier has no value to them at this point.


This seems okay, but what do they do for a starter(s)??


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#12

Posted: July 28, 2019, 12:05 PM Post
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Stearns is trying to trade Shaw and wants teams to think we would actually roll with him as our everyday 3B for the reason of the season. [laughing]


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#13

Posted: July 28, 2019, 12:12 PM Post
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Trading Moose and replacing him with Shaw is a major MAJOR risk.

Just can't see it happening.

Trade Grandal and move Pina back into the starting role?

You take Moose and Grandal out of the daily line-up and replace them with Shaw and Pina and you are just killing yourself offensively. No amount of pitching will replace that offense, in fact, getting a new starter or two without the benefit of Grandal and Moose in the line-up seems like a lateral move to me.

We are in a tough situation for sure.


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#14

Posted: July 29, 2019, 6:05 AM Post
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turborickey said:
Trading Moose and replacing him with Shaw is a major MAJOR risk.

Just can't see it happening.

Trade Grandal and move Pina back into the starting role?

You take Moose and Grandal out of the daily line-up and replace them with Shaw and Pina and you are just killing yourself offensively. No amount of pitching will replace that offense, in fact, getting a new starter or two without the benefit of Grandal and Moose in the line-up seems like a lateral move to me.

We are in a tough situation for sure.


Pina has a 1.158 OPS with 3 HR in July
Grandal has a .748 OPS with 1 HR in July

Freitas is hitting .373/.446/.542 over a large sample of 259 PA in AAA. His .373 BA is 85 points higher than Shaw's .288 in SA.

If they dealt Moose, I think they'd add Perez who's hitting well at AAA back to platoon with Shaw at 3B. What's better a catcher combo of Pina and Freitas or a 3B platoon of Shaw and Perez?


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#15

Posted: July 29, 2019, 8:04 AM Post
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I think for all the angst and spilled ink (or pixels I guess) over blaming Hook for the decline of this staff, a key part of the story is being overlooked. Half of the pitching equation is the catcher, calling the game, setting locations, framing pitches. What if Grandal is a major reason for so many of the Brewers pitchers declining at once?

When I get some time today, I want to run a little comparison to see how this year’s Dodgers pitchers compare to last year, which could lend some weight to this theory. But if I’m right, moving Grandal won’t hurt nearly as much if it, theoretically, improved the pitching performances a bit. Plus, Grandal generally slides a little with the bat in the second half, and we may already be seeing his performance dip. Trading him and still going for this year may not be as crazy as I thought at first.

What is best in life? To crush the Cardinals, Cubs, and Manny Machado, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their fanboys.


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#16

Posted: July 29, 2019, 8:15 AM Post
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Harvey'sWBs said:
I think for all the angst and spilled ink (or pixels I guess) over blaming Hook for the decline of this staff, a key part of the story is being overlooked. Half of the pitching equation is the catcher, calling the game, setting locations, framing pitches. What if Grandal is a major reason for so many of the Brewers pitchers declining at once?

When I get some time today, I want to run a little comparison to see how this year’s Dodgers pitchers compare to last year, which could lend some weight to this theory. But if I’m right, moving Grandal won’t hurt nearly as much if it, theoretically, improved the pitching performances a bit. Plus, Grandal generally slides a little with the bat in the second half, and we may already be seeing his performance dip. Trading him and still going for this year may not be as crazy as I thought at first.


ERA is 4.97 with Grandal behind the plate. ERA is 3.73 with Pina behind the plate.


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#17

Posted: July 29, 2019, 8:44 AM Post
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I just had this conversation last night with a couple of baseball buddies. We all came to the exact same theory as the comments above. Should be looking at Grandal as much more responsible for the decline in pitching than Hook. While the offensive numbers are nice (although slipping lately), I believe Grandal has indeed had a negative effect on the staff. Pina seems to control the staff better and defensively is an upgrade for sure. If I could get the proper value for Grandal I think I would have to make that move as I fell it would be a benefit to the team in multiple ways.


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Posted: July 29, 2019, 8:47 AM Post
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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#19

Posted: July 29, 2019, 8:51 AM Post
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Harvey'sWBs said:
I think for all the angst and spilled ink (or pixels I guess) over blaming Hook for the decline of this staff, a key part of the story is being overlooked. Half of the pitching equation is the catcher, calling the game, setting locations, framing pitches. What if Grandal is a major reason for so many of the Brewers pitchers declining at once?

I have been thinking this since the middle of May. Love Grandal's offense but I prefer Pina's defense behind the plate. I would be very in favor of dealing Grandal for SP.


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Offline  Re: Brewers considering trading Grandal or Moose for rotation help...
#20

Posted: July 29, 2019, 9:10 AM Post
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Both Statcast & BPro have Grandal 2nd in MLB in framing runs.

Catcher ERA is extremely noisy (especially in when one guy has 3.5x times more innings than the other), but here are Yasmani & his other guy's Catcher ERAs with the Dodgers...

2015: Yaz 3.35 | Ellis 3.37
2016: Yaz 3.72 | Ellis 3.28
2017: Yaz 3.22 | Barnes 3.74
2018: Yaz 3.37 | Barnes 3.35

Calling the game is also a collaboratve prcess. I would imagine the analytic/scouting staffs confer with CC/Hook to come up with a strategy for the opposing team each series & it is then up to the catcher & pitcher to execute that game plan.


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