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Shop Lorenzo Cain?

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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#81

Posted: August 28, 2019, 9:52 AM Post
Posts: 3060
JosephC said:
I pretty much see it the same way as Oxy. Based on the scouting reports, I really doubt if the Brewers view Clark as starting 150 games in centerfield at the major league level. Even if the Brewers were to get modest offers with an opposing team taking all of Cain's salary, I'd guess that Stearns would still keep him even if he's only projecting Cain to be about a .320 OBP/.390 SLUG type hitter. His defense brings significant value, and Stearns probably wouldn't want to make a bad pitching staff look even worse by compromising the centerfield defense.


Or maybe he see’s this as his last real opportunity to get out from under this contract. Agree based on the scouting reports that Grisham shouldn’t be playing centerfield, so trade or sign one. Maybe,When we trade Hader this off-season, fingers crossed, one of prospects coming back will be a ML ready CF’er?


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#82

Posted: August 28, 2019, 9:59 AM Post
Posts: 5119
Location: Madison, WI
If someone took the contract straight up I bet he'd do it, but I also don't see anyone taking that contract or even that anyone would be even close to taking it.

I really think it's as simple as no one will take the contract combined with that he's actually been fine the last 6 weeks or so after getting healthier and the thumb injection so they'll just roll that into next year. If he plays like he has been the last 6 or so weeks he's perfectly fine.

One thing I'd be all about if I was them is more days off for him and pressure him to cut out the tough guy stuff of playing through everything every day. If you got drilled in the hand and dove and bruised your knee the same game, just take the next day off, it's fine.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#83

Posted: August 28, 2019, 10:12 AM Post
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Brew crew 92 said:
JosephC said:
I pretty much see it the same way as Oxy. Based on the scouting reports, I really doubt if the Brewers view Clark as starting 150 games in centerfield at the major league level. Even if the Brewers were to get modest offers with an opposing team taking all of Cain's salary, I'd guess that Stearns would still keep him even if he's only projecting Cain to be about a .320 OBP/.390 SLUG type hitter. His defense brings significant value, and Stearns probably wouldn't want to make a bad pitching staff look even worse by compromising the centerfield defense.


Or maybe he see’s this as his last real opportunity to get out from under this contract. Agree based on the scouting reports that Grisham shouldn’t be playing centerfield, so trade or sign one. Maybe,When we trade Hader this off-season, fingers crossed, one of prospects coming back will be a ML ready CF’er?


You seriously believe that an MLB front office operates like a 15-year-old playing MLB The Show in franchise mode on his PS4, don't you? The near impossibility of dealing Cain has been brought up by several posters in several threads, and you ignore it like dealing him is some sort of foregone conclusion. "So sign or trade for one" ... trade Hader for one ... LOL. There are no words.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#84

Posted: August 28, 2019, 10:42 AM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
If someone took the contract straight up I bet he'd do it, but I also don't see anyone taking that contract or even that anyone would be even close to taking it.


As a fan of the team, I'm not sure how happy I'd even be about this.

Odds are, if they give Cain away, they're just going to pocket the money.

Second best odds would be that they sign...another player(s) of Cain's age/risk stature with the money.

There are some good things they could do with the saved money but I'm not sure they'd happen.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#85

Posted: August 28, 2019, 10:57 AM Post
Posts: 5119
Location: Madison, WI
"Second best odds would be that they sign...another player(s) of Cain's age/risk stature with the money."

yup, I've thought the exact same thing but avoided pointing it out to avoid the subsequent argument. Heck, it might even lead to a worse and longer contract for all we know. It's just not as simple as take 17 mil and sign X pitcher with it.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#86

Posted: August 28, 2019, 11:02 AM Post
Posts: 3060
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Brew crew 92 said:
JosephC said:
I pretty much see it the same way as Oxy. Based on the scouting reports, I really doubt if the Brewers view Clark as starting 150 games in centerfield at the major league level. Even if the Brewers were to get modest offers with an opposing team taking all of Cain's salary, I'd guess that Stearns would still keep him even if he's only projecting Cain to be about a .320 OBP/.390 SLUG type hitter. His defense brings significant value, and Stearns probably wouldn't want to make a bad pitching staff look even worse by compromising the centerfield defense.


Or maybe he see’s this as his last real opportunity to get out from under this contract. Agree based on the scouting reports that Grisham shouldn’t be playing centerfield, so trade or sign one. Maybe,When we trade Hader this off-season, fingers crossed, one of prospects coming back will be a ML ready CF’er?


You seriously believe that an MLB front office operates like a 15-year-old playing MLB The Show in franchise mode on his PS4, don't you? The near impossibility of dealing Cain has been brought up by several posters in several threads, and you ignore it like dealing him is some sort of foregone conclusion. "So sign or trade for one" ... trade Hader for one ... LOL. There are no words.


Absolutely no clue what these video games that people keep bringing up are, last video game I played was Pac-Man back in 1982.

Why can’t Stearns trade Cain? Maybe this one time we have to throw in $6 million To get a deal done. Forgive me if I’m not convinced by the posters that say this is impossible. trading Hader this offseason which I believe should have been done at the deadline, and got hammered for suggesting that at the time, should happen without doubt, get some young talent to start coming our way, before more regression or injury destroys that from happening. We can trade Yelich next offseason, probably better to split up the trades anyhow.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#87

Posted: August 28, 2019, 11:24 AM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
Right now, with the way Grisham is swinging the bat, we will all be lucky to have Ryan Braun around for another season.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#88

Posted: August 28, 2019, 11:53 AM Post
Posts: 5119
Location: Madison, WI
"Trade Hader without doubt", there could be no reasonable discussion on the subject huh?

and yes I believe even kicking in 6 mil does nothing to move Cain's trade value. 3/47 isn't really different than 3/53 imo. Once again, he's been a good player since getting healthier and the thumb injection. Maybe best route could be to get a good year out of him to rebound his value and then his contract is down to like 2/30ish and try to kind of sell high after next year if possible. Leaves some gaping holes in the OF but lots of money freed up to try something aggressive.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#89

Posted: August 28, 2019, 12:33 PM Post
Posts: 3060
tmwiese55 said:
"Trade Hader without doubt", there could be no reasonable discussion on the subject huh?

and yes I believe even kicking in 6 mil does nothing to move Cain's trade value. 3/47 isn't really different than 3/53 imo. Once again, he's been a good player since getting healthier and the thumb injection. Maybe best route could be to get a good year out of him to rebound his value and then his contract is down to like 2/30ish and try to kind of sell high after next year if possible. Leaves some gaping holes in the OF but lots of money freed up to try something aggressive.


Only way I’d be ok with this is Braun playing 1B to free up Grisham playing 150+ games in LF. Priority, imo, is Grisham playing every day.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#90

Posted: August 28, 2019, 12:47 PM Post
Posts: 1163
Location: Washburn, WI
Brew crew 92 said:
tmwiese55 said:
"Trade Hader without doubt", there could be no reasonable discussion on the subject huh?

and yes I believe even kicking in 6 mil does nothing to move Cain's trade value. 3/47 isn't really different than 3/53 imo. Once again, he's been a good player since getting healthier and the thumb injection. Maybe best route could be to get a good year out of him to rebound his value and then his contract is down to like 2/30ish and try to kind of sell high after next year if possible. Leaves some gaping holes in the OF but lots of money freed up to try something aggressive.


Only way I’d be ok with this is Braun playing 1B to free up Grisham playing 150+ games in LF. Priority, imo, is Grisham playing every day.


The priority has to be playing Braun as much as possible. He’s their best hitter this season outside of Yelich. The man has always been able to hit and still continues to do so. If we are hoping to compete next season, which we obviously are, Braun’s health and productivity is a big part in our success.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#91

Posted: August 28, 2019, 12:52 PM Post
Posts: 804
Brew4U said:
Right now, with the way Grisham is swinging the bat, we will all be lucky to have Ryan Braun around for another season.


I don’t get this at all. Grisham has had very sporadic playing time since he’s been up, sitting multiple days in a row, and you’re upset he’s not slashing like his AAA numbers? He’s shown himself capable of big league at bats already, which is all you can really ask from a rookie who’s sitting ~3 Days a week. I believe with regular playing time he would be very productive.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#92

Posted: August 28, 2019, 1:04 PM Post
Posts: 5119
Location: Madison, WI
Gamel has started 54 games this year, plus the 15ish Grisham has and even some Thames starts. So that's over 70 with over a month to go and Braun being healthy all year. MKE needs four OFs and they're all going to play a lot. Braun goes down for 6 weeks and Grisham just takes the job then so be it. They're very proactive with how much Braun sits and with Cain's physical style and age they should start doing the same with him. The backup can easily get to 3-4 starts a week and then of course plays every day for any DL stints. Plus of course Braun should put in time at 1B again to get some starts there vs lefties over Thames and if Thames needs a DL stint, which could free up even more OF starts.

This is once again just being too extreme.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#93

Posted: August 28, 2019, 4:28 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
brooks_quichenick said:
Brew4U said:
Right now, with the way Grisham is swinging the bat, we will all be lucky to have Ryan Braun around for another season.


I don’t get this at all. Grisham has had very sporadic playing time since he’s been up, sitting multiple days in a row, and you’re upset he’s not slashing like his AAA numbers? He’s shown himself capable of big league at bats already, which is all you can really ask from a rookie who’s sitting ~3 Days a week. I believe with regular playing time he would be very productive.


Upset? [laughing] No, not at all. I don’t expect much from a rookie but I also expect us to have an OF in a competitive year perform. That’s all my comment was about since some will do anything to move from Braun even though he’s been pretty great this season.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#94

Posted: August 28, 2019, 4:40 PM Post
Posts: 13069
Brew4U said:
brooks_quichenick said:
Brew4U said:
Right now, with the way Grisham is swinging the bat, we will all be lucky to have Ryan Braun around for another season.


I don’t get this at all. Grisham has had very sporadic playing time since he’s been up, sitting multiple days in a row, and you’re upset he’s not slashing like his AAA numbers? He’s shown himself capable of big league at bats already, which is all you can really ask from a rookie who’s sitting ~3 Days a week. I believe with regular playing time he would be very productive.


Upset? [laughing] No, not at all. I don’t expect much from a rookie but I also expect us to have an OF in a competitive year perform. That’s all my comment was about since some will do anything to move from Braun even though he’s been pretty great this season.


I don’t think that last sentence is true at all.

And as great as his season has been his defense really takes away from that making him a fine OFer, but not really anything highly valuable. He currently sits at 1.3/1.6 WAR depending on who you view as more accurate.

2 WAR isn’t a bad by any means, but I’d say 90% still didn’t care about Khris Davis because of bad defense after he left despite putting up 2.5 WAR each season after leaving. So I don’t see why Ryan Braun would be a tragic loss for people.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#95

Posted: August 28, 2019, 4:49 PM Post
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Oxy said:
We dont have a replacement for Cain. It's trending poorly and '21 and '22 will likely be ugly years for Lorenzo--but he's under contract and we don't have a replacement for him. He'll still very likely be the best defensive outfielder in our organization. If we dump him or trade him we'll need to replace him with somebody who might be a better value than Cain but also probably wont have the upside that Cain has.

He's going to be a Brewer for the next 2 years at a minimum.


If he's trending poorly in the next couple years and we have a chance to get rid of that problem with minimal or no incentive added now, why wouldn't we do that before it becomes a problem for us?

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#96

Posted: August 28, 2019, 4:55 PM Post
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No, I don't think they should shop or trade Cain. I mean, I guess you never completely shut the door on anything but I'm not giving up on the current group for next season. They still have a very talented group of position players. Perhaps they're a pitching coach, an injury recovery, and a good under the radar signing away from winning the division again. Idk, but the 2nd wild card makes giving up seasons for a rebuild less appealing to me with Yelich on the roster. If you're in the camp of rebuild then I guess you'd shop; I'm not on board with that stance.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#97

Posted: August 28, 2019, 5:05 PM Post
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trwi7 said:

If he's trending poorly in the next couple years and we have a chance to get rid of that problem with minimal or no incentive added now, why wouldn't we do that before it becomes a problem for us?


Because it just opens another hole on the roster. I'm not confident that we can just find a cheaper CF that would even be as good as Cain is when he isnt going good... Factoring in that Cain still has a pretty high upside for the next 2 years anyway and I just don't see us moving him.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#98

Posted: August 28, 2019, 5:49 PM Post
Posts: 3060
trwi7 said:
Oxy said:
We dont have a replacement for Cain. It's trending poorly and '21 and '22 will likely be ugly years for Lorenzo--but he's under contract and we don't have a replacement for him. He'll still very likely be the best defensive outfielder in our organization. If we dump him or trade him we'll need to replace him with somebody who might be a better value than Cain but also probably wont have the upside that Cain has.

He's going to be a Brewer for the next 2 years at a minimum.


If he's trending poorly in the next couple years and we have a chance to get rid of that problem with minimal or no incentive added now, why wouldn't we do that before it becomes a problem for us?


Exactly.
Trending poorly, well past prime, if we pay down 9 mil. It’s worth getting out from under that contract, he’s abysmal offensively, what happens another year older if his defense starts to regress? 15 million a year saved can be used in other area’s.


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Online  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
#99

Posted: August 28, 2019, 6:41 PM Post
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Brew crew 92 said:
what happens another year older if his defense starts to regress? 15 million a year saved can be used in other area’s.


I agree completely with this part of your post. We all knew the back half of that contract could be ugly. I think there's signs it could be worse than we thought. I wouldn't be willing to eat any money, but I'd certainly trade him if someone showed interest.


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Offline  Re: Shop Lorenzo Cain?
Posted: August 28, 2019, 7:55 PM Post
Posts: 763
Random interjection. Yelich has a 6.1 war on the year. Even though he’s had a 6.4 war offensively. Interesting that he’s a gold Glover.

Cain on the other hand has 2.1 war for the year. 2.0 of that is from defense, and has no gold glove.


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