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Shortstop for 2020

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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#21

Posted: August 18, 2019, 2:54 PM Post
Posts: 100
Maybe the Brewers could get a couple of "lottery tickets" for Arcia in the offseason?


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#22

Posted: August 18, 2019, 7:56 PM Post
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Posts: 2464
I don't have any evidence to support it--just too lazy to look it up--but I think there is something to a guy needing to move on and start fresh somewhere else.

He's been with the organization since he was 16. And even though the Brewers have made changes since his 2011 debut, it's still a lot of the same people and same messages. Arcia might do better with a different team and a different approach.

The Brewers could bring him back for one more try, but he's no longer a minimum salary guy, and his production says he probably should be.

I'm tired of watching him, and I have to think the stat studying front office is, too.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#23

Posted: August 18, 2019, 8:04 PM Post
Posts: 11914
balsamlaker said:
Maybe the Brewers could get a couple of "lottery tickets" for Arcia in the offseason?


He definitely holds a little value for a trash team hoping to strike gold. Could maybe get bullpen help using him if they target big league help.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#24

Posted: August 18, 2019, 9:00 PM Post
Posts: 490
They might be stuck with Arcia due to Didi being too $ and the only worthwhile free agent starter out there. A good idea might be to sign Logan Forsythe to platoon with Shaw at 3B assuming moose isn’t resigned. Forsythe can play a little SS too


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#25

Posted: August 19, 2019, 8:00 AM Post
Posts: 11914
Devinep said:
They might be stuck with Arcia due to Didi being too $ and the only worthwhile free agent starter out there.


I am thinking they will get stuck with him by default just because they have so many holes to fill and not a crazy amount of money to do it. I figure the only way they make a change at SS is if they rearrange deck chairs and sign someone with better offense, but not as good defensively. If you are going to get stuck with a black hole offensively no matter what Arcia probably isn't the worst because he really good on defense usually.

That being said if they say resign Moustakas, but let Grandal go that is some scary offense on the lower half. Pina/Arcia/Pitcher? Yikes...especially when Thames having a down year isn't exactly a shocking possibility...or Braun/Grisham disappointing.

Maybe there is a decent offensive utility guy to pick up incase we really are dying for the offense over defense. Which probably isn't a bad plan when they keep getting sick of Arcia and try to get someone else in there...well news flash Saladino and Co. suck offensively and aren't any better defensively. Thus, we always find our way back to Arcia.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#26

Posted: August 19, 2019, 8:23 AM Post
Posts: 490
MrTPlush said:
Devinep said:
They might be stuck with Arcia due to Didi being too $ and the only worthwhile free agent starter out there.


I am thinking they will get stuck with him by default just because they have so many holes to fill and not a crazy amount of money to do it. I figure the only way they make a change at SS is if they rearrange deck chairs and sign someone with better offense, but not as good defensively. If you are going to get stuck with a black hole offensively no matter what Arcia probably isn't the worst because he really good on defense usually.

That being said if they say resign Moustakas, but let Grandal go that is some scary offense on the lower half. Pina/Arcia/Pitcher? Yikes...especially when Thames having a down year isn't exactly a shocking possibility...or Braun/Grisham disappointing.

Maybe there is a decent offensive utility guy to pick up incase we really are dying for the offense over defense. Which probably isn't a bad plan when they keep getting sick of Arcia and try to get someone else in there...well news flash Saladino and Co. suck offensively and aren't any better defensively. Thus, we always find our way back to Arcia.


If not Forsythe, maybe Brock holt-although a righty to platoon with Shaw would be needed


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#27

Posted: August 19, 2019, 8:47 AM Post
Posts: 4721
Location: Madison, WI
I've seen the high Reds salary mentioned in several spots recently. They clear a ton of salary off this season and go into next year with only Votto on an expensive contract. Yes they'll have to arbitration Bauer but they go into next year with a fairly clean slate and no more bad contracts lingering on their books besides Votto. If they want the SS back they can afford it. The Reds have set themselves up very well imo.

One interesting thing to note is they're still paying Ken Griffey Jr. 3.5 mil. he's their second worst contract right now.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#28

Posted: August 19, 2019, 10:31 AM Post
Posts: 5116
Location: New Berlin, WI
I will be very curious how SS pans out for next year. I'm a bit torn on whether to keep at it with Arcia. He hasn't been good at the plate, but he also just turned 25...so he's still young. Some guys with great bat speed but poor approach tend to struggle early but then have great seasons in the 26-29 age range. Rickie Weeks, Carlos Gomez, Javy Baez...to name a couple examples. Do you hope on that, or go out an get someone that would at best be solid/unspectacular?


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#29

Posted: August 19, 2019, 11:13 AM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
Some guys with great bat speed but poor approach tend to struggle early but then have great seasons in the 26-29 age range. Rickie Weeks, Carlos Gomez, Javy Baez...to name a couple examples.


Where does this idea that Weeks had a poor approach come from? He never had a poor approach and produced OBPs of .363 at age 23 and .374 at age 24.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#30

Posted: August 19, 2019, 11:59 AM Post
Posts: 723
trwi7 said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Some guys with great bat speed but poor approach tend to struggle early but then have great seasons in the 26-29 age range. Rickie Weeks, Carlos Gomez, Javy Baez...to name a couple examples.


Where does this idea that Weeks had a poor approach come from? He never had a poor approach and produced OBPs of .363 at age 23 and .374 at age 24.


Weeks was notorious for repeatedly waiving at outside sliders. It was a hole in his approach the majority of his career, and ultimately his downfall.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#31

Posted: August 19, 2019, 12:11 PM Post
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Posts: 18786
wildcat2237 said:
trwi7 said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Some guys with great bat speed but poor approach tend to struggle early but then have great seasons in the 26-29 age range. Rickie Weeks, Carlos Gomez, Javy Baez...to name a couple examples.


Where does this idea that Weeks had a poor approach come from? He never had a poor approach and produced OBPs of .363 at age 23 and .374 at age 24.


Weeks was notorious for repeatedly waiving at outside sliders. It was a hole in his approach the majority of his career, and ultimately his downfall.


His downfall was he was the #2 overall pick and not a superstar so fans thought he was awful. There was nothing wrong with his overall approach at the plate.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#32

Posted: August 19, 2019, 12:16 PM Post
Posts: 11914
wildcat2237 said:
trwi7 said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Some guys with great bat speed but poor approach tend to struggle early but then have great seasons in the 26-29 age range. Rickie Weeks, Carlos Gomez, Javy Baez...to name a couple examples.


Where does this idea that Weeks had a poor approach come from? He never had a poor approach and produced OBPs of .363 at age 23 and .374 at age 24.


Weeks was notorious for repeatedly waiving at outside sliders. It was a hole in his approach the majority of his career, and ultimately his downfall.


His downfall was injuries. Wrist injuries aren't good and leg injuries aren't going to help the cause.

Pretty much every player in baseball, who isn't a star, struggles badly with some kind of pitch/location. I don't think one pitch is going to be a player's down fall.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#33

Posted: August 19, 2019, 12:29 PM Post
Posts: 5116
Location: New Berlin, WI
wildcat2237 said:
trwi7 said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Some guys with great bat speed but poor approach tend to struggle early but then have great seasons in the 26-29 age range. Rickie Weeks, Carlos Gomez, Javy Baez...to name a couple examples.


Where does this idea that Weeks had a poor approach come from? He never had a poor approach and produced OBPs of .363 at age 23 and .374 at age 24.


Weeks was notorious for repeatedly waiving at outside sliders. It was a hole in his approach the majority of his career, and ultimately his downfall.


I guess agree to disagree on Weeks, I thought he was patient to a fault due to leading off...and yes the slider away issues plagued a lot of that RH-heavy squad including Weeks. But regardless, the Gomez/Baez examples are still good examples. I could probably come up with more but I think you get the general jist of it. But that's also not to say that every young hitter with great bad speed and poor approach will have 3-4 all-star caliber seasons age 26-29. Mostly just food for thought. We don't have a slam-dunk easy decision at SS for next year...that much is certain.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#34

Posted: August 19, 2019, 12:48 PM Post
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Posts: 18786
KeithStone53151 said:
I guess agree to disagree on Weeks, I thought he was patient to a fault due to leading off...


I think he was early in his career. I also remember after he got sent down in 2007 that Sveum told him he needed to be more aggressive early in the count. His walk rate fell about 5-8% while still maintaining a good 10ish% rate but his batting average went from the mid .230s to right around .270.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#35

Posted: August 19, 2019, 12:53 PM Post
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Posts: 5548
Location: Phoenix, AZ
trwi7 said:
KeithStone53151 said:
I guess agree to disagree on Weeks, I thought he was patient to a fault due to leading off...


I think he was early in his career. I also remember after he got sent down in 2007 that Sveum told him he needed to be more aggressive early in the count. His walk rate fell about 5-8% while still maintaining a good 10ish% rate but his batting average went from the mid .230s to right around .270.


Sveum was the best hitting coach the Brewers have had in a long time. Would really love for the Brewers to bring him back and work with Arcia.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#36

Posted: August 19, 2019, 1:57 PM Post
Posts: 3060
tmwiese55 said:
I've seen the high Reds salary mentioned in several spots recently. They clear a ton of salary off this season and go into next year with only Votto on an expensive contract. Yes they'll have to arbitration Bauer but they go into next year with a fairly clean slate and no more bad contracts lingering on their books besides Votto. If they want the SS back they can afford it. The Reds have set themselves up very well imo.

One interesting thing to note is they're still paying Ken Griffey Jr. 3.5 mil. he's their second worst contract right now.


My mistake, your right, they have only ~ 65 million commited, add ~ 18 for Bauer > 83. The rest of their team is pre-Arby with a couple 1st or 2nd year arby’s. Castillo Bauer Mahle Desclafani will be back, a good bullpen, a young dangerous lineup, with 60-80 million to add FA’s, imo, the favorites to win the central, hands down.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#37

Posted: August 19, 2019, 2:39 PM Post
Posts: 8578
Brew crew 92 said:
tmwiese55 said:
I've seen the high Reds salary mentioned in several spots recently. They clear a ton of salary off this season and go into next year with only Votto on an expensive contract. Yes they'll have to arbitration Bauer but they go into next year with a fairly clean slate and no more bad contracts lingering on their books besides Votto. If they want the SS back they can afford it. The Reds have set themselves up very well imo.

One interesting thing to note is they're still paying Ken Griffey Jr. 3.5 mil. he's their second worst contract right now.


My mistake, your right, they have only ~ 65 million commited, add ~ 18 for Bauer > 83. The rest of their team is pre-Arby with a couple 1st or 2nd year arby’s. Castillo Bauer Mahle Desclafani will be back, a good bullpen, a young dangerous lineup, with 60-80 million to add FA’s, imo, the favorites to win the central, hands down.


You don't HAVE to automatically go the extreme on every take you have. Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but like the Reds salary you have just been way off on most of your takes/ predictions. The Reds will be the favorite in the central HANDS DOWN? No....they won't. How about "Reds could be much improved next year, and maybe even challenge for the division." Honestly, just trying to reel you back in a bit from all these over the top takes.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#38

Posted: August 19, 2019, 3:44 PM Post
Posts: 3060
FVBrewerFan said:
Brew crew 92 said:
tmwiese55 said:
I've seen the high Reds salary mentioned in several spots recently. They clear a ton of salary off this season and go into next year with only Votto on an expensive contract. Yes they'll have to arbitration Bauer but they go into next year with a fairly clean slate and no more bad contracts lingering on their books besides Votto. If they want the SS back they can afford it. The Reds have set themselves up very well imo.

One interesting thing to note is they're still paying Ken Griffey Jr. 3.5 mil. he's their second worst contract right now.


My mistake, your right, they have only ~ 65 million commited, add ~ 18 for Bauer > 83. The rest of their team is pre-Arby with a couple 1st or 2nd year arby’s. Castillo Bauer Mahle Desclafani will be back, a good bullpen, a young dangerous lineup, with 60-80 million to add FA’s, imo, the favorites to win the central, hands down.


You don't HAVE to automatically go the extreme on every take you have. Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but like the Reds salary you have just been way off on most of your takes/ predictions. The Reds will be the favorite in the central HANDS DOWN? No....they won't. How about "Reds could be much improved next year, and maybe even challenge for the division." Honestly, just trying to reel you back in a bit from all these over the top takes.


Your right, let me rephrase, imo, they are the way too early favorites to win the central, based upon their strong rotation, underrated bullpen, good lineup, good defense and tons of money to spend on improvement.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#39

Posted: August 19, 2019, 6:05 PM Post
Posts: 234
I agree with Arcia's maturity and the lack of. It is ok to have fun, but Orlando seems to rub some the wrong way.


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Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#40

Posted: August 19, 2019, 6:34 PM Post
Posts: 454
Devinep said:
MrTPlush said:
Devinep said:
They might be stuck with Arcia due to Didi being too $ and the only worthwhile free agent starter out there.


I am thinking they will get stuck with him by default just because they have so many holes to fill and not a crazy amount of money to do it. I figure the only way they make a change at SS is if they rearrange deck chairs and sign someone with better offense, but not as good defensively. If you are going to get stuck with a black hole offensively no matter what Arcia probably isn't the worst because he really good on defense usually.

That being said if they say resign Moustakas, but let Grandal go that is some scary offense on the lower half. Pina/Arcia/Pitcher? Yikes...especially when Thames having a down year isn't exactly a shocking possibility...or Braun/Grisham disappointing.

Maybe there is a decent offensive utility guy to pick up incase we really are dying for the offense over defense. Which probably isn't a bad plan when they keep getting sick of Arcia and try to get someone else in there...well news flash Saladino and Co. suck offensively and aren't any better defensively. Thus, we always find our way back to Arcia.


If not Forsythe, maybe Brock holt-although a righty to platoon with Shaw would be needed


Neil Walker is a SW and only $2M or so and would be a nice option off the bench at 1B-2B-3B. Jose Iglesais a possibility at SS if he doesn't re-sign with the Reds. .274/.319 career and a good glove.


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