LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 11  Next  [ 202 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

Shortstop for 2020

Author Message
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#61

Posted: August 26, 2019, 11:54 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 8420
I would guess the options for 2020 are going to be Arcia or a bunch of other guys that are basically the same as Arcia. Maybe the DBacks would be interested in unloading Eduardo Escobar but they're probably looking for an actual prospect or two for him.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#62

Posted: August 26, 2019, 12:00 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 9264
jerichoholicninja said:
I would guess the options for 2020 are going to be Arcia or a bunch of other guys that are basically the same as Arcia. Maybe the DBacks would be interested in unloading Eduardo Escobar but they're probably looking for an actual prospect or two for him.


Eduardo Escobar should never, ever see the SS position. Moose would likely be better there defensively at this point.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#63

Posted: August 26, 2019, 2:03 PM Post
Posts: 486
I'm getting a stronger and stronger feeling it won't be Arcia with how much CC benches him in favor of guys like Spangenburg, Saladino, H Perez, etc.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#64

Posted: August 26, 2019, 2:07 PM Post
Posts: 716
Location: Washburn, WI
I try not to discuss offseason plans much mid-season, but I don’t see any way that Arcia is our opening day shortstop in 2020. I think he will be used off the bench as a backup to short and 2nd, or traded. I don’t think he will be DFA’d because he still has some untapped potential in my opinion and he’s still cheap, but the Brewers can’t continue to trot him out there almost everyday in 2020 waiting to see if he will ever find it. Shortstop will be addressed in some way this offseason.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#65

Posted: August 26, 2019, 2:42 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 8420
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
jerichoholicninja said:
I would guess the options for 2020 are going to be Arcia or a bunch of other guys that are basically the same as Arcia. Maybe the DBacks would be interested in unloading Eduardo Escobar but they're probably looking for an actual prospect or two for him.


Eduardo Escobar should never, ever see the SS position. Moose would likely be better there defensively at this point.


He's played so much SS in his career he can't be that bad. The .150 increase in OPS is probably worth it.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#66

Posted: August 26, 2019, 2:42 PM Post
Posts: 11914
monkeyman343434 said:
I'm getting a stronger and stronger feeling it won't be Arcia with how much CC benches him in favor of guys like Spangenburg, Saladino, H Perez, etc.


Did the same last year, didn't matter. I won't be shocked if he is the starter again next year...but only reason would be by default. No good options or spending all the money in other places. At least you get good defense from Arcia to help the pitching a bit. Having a terrible 5th starter or a trash can in the pen...well, nothing positive about that.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#67

Posted: August 26, 2019, 2:42 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 13550
Location: Milwaukee, WI
I just don’t know if you want to give up on Arcia in this 25/26 year after all the time we’ve invested in him.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#68

Posted: August 26, 2019, 2:55 PM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 7059
A lot just depends on the club's perception of Arcia going forward. He just turned 25 a couple of weeks ago, and it's not uncommon for smaller middle infielder types to mature (physically and mentally) around this time. Perhaps the teams feels there is growth as a player - as a hitter and as a fielder. As a fielder, he offers a ton of potential. But the club has to feel he can tap into it.

If not, the options for 2020 are somewhat limited.

The biggest name will be Didi Gregorius. Power, solid BA, average defense. But he's had some injury issues the last few years and missed some time (this includes TJ surgery last season). Also, at age 30, he's not likely to get any better, so what you see is what you get (at best). His defense is average, he doesn't walk much (about 6.0% in his career), hits between .265-.285, and is good for 20-25 HR. That's good. Not great, but quite good. He's probably the best of the bunch, and should get a pretty good contract.

Next are Jose Iglesias and Freddy Galvis - both of whom are 30. Both are guys have limited upside. Iglesias hits for a better average, and has a better glove. Galvis has more power. Both are having career years, so be careful about looking at just 2019. Iglesias is likely not a .290 hitter who hits double digit HRs. Or Galvis is likely not a .270 hitter who hits 25 HR. Those numbers are outliers. Gavis will probably hit .250 and hit 15-20 HR. Iglesias will hit .260-.270 with 5 HR. Those numbers aren't bad - but they don't translate into huge upgrades. And let's not forget, both guys are probably at their peak. Numbers for guys like that usually don't get better as they age. Still, each is a decent player - likely to get you 2.0 WAR.

Your other options are not starting level quality players (at least at SS). You've got older guys (such as Jordy Mercer) who just aren't that good anymore, plus some guys who might still be productive, but should not play SS regularly (Sogard, Brock Holt, for example).

The team just might be fed up with Arcia's erratic play, but they may also just roll with him again, and hope that he gets things together. If he hits league average, and plays good defense, he's a valuable player.

Personally, if the club adds someone, I'd hope it is Iglesias. I love his defense - which will help the entire team. He's not a going to do a lot with his bat, but he's consistent.

A trade is always a possibility, but this club doesn't really have a ton to deal. But you never know.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#69

Posted: August 26, 2019, 3:11 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 5548
Location: Phoenix, AZ
bill hAll Star said:
Man, with all due respect because I know you're just posting some options...players that are slugging sub-.360 in AA or horrible AVG/OPS should not be major league options.

Gordon seems to be the only player that I could see as an option and I'd imagine that the Twins protect him.

That's like going after Luis Sardinas to start for our contending team.


These were all rule 5 pick options. So you are not going to get perfection and there are going to be warts.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#70

Posted: August 26, 2019, 5:13 PM Post
Posts: 454
jerichoholicninja said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
jerichoholicninja said:
I would guess the options for 2020 are going to be Arcia or a bunch of other guys that are basically the same as Arcia. Maybe the DBacks would be interested in unloading Eduardo Escobar but they're probably looking for an actual prospect or two for him.


Eduardo Escobar should never, ever see the SS position. Moose would likely be better there defensively at this point.


He's played so much SS in his career he can't be that bad. The .150 increase in OPS is probably worth it.


Escobar is a -15 career SS and rated a -34 SS this year. He's about as bad as you can get at SS and would kill the D.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#71

Posted: August 27, 2019, 10:37 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 2599
nate82 said:
bill hAll Star said:
Man, with all due respect because I know you're just posting some options...players that are slugging sub-.360 in AA or horrible AVG/OPS should not be major league options.

Gordon seems to be the only player that I could see as an option and I'd imagine that the Twins protect him.

That's like going after Luis Sardinas to start for our contending team.


These were all rule 5 pick options. So you are not going to get perfection and there are going to be warts.


Yes, understood, that's why I gave the disclaimer.

I understand you're just presenting options (rule 5) but I can't imagine any scenario where I'd be interested in really any of them. Send Arcia down to AA or AAA and as bad as he is in the majors, he'd blow those numbers away. Arcia was a better hitter than those guys at AA at age 21 and those guys have all probably been stuck in the minors for years and still cannot hit.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#72

Posted: August 27, 2019, 10:53 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 2599
reillymcshane said:
Next are Jose Iglesias and Freddy Galvis - both of whom are 30. Both are guys have limited upside. Iglesias hits for a better average, and has a better glove. Galvis has more power. Both are having career years, so be careful about looking at just 2019. Iglesias is likely not a .290 hitter who hits double digit HRs. Or Galvis is likely not a .270 hitter who hits 25 HR. Those numbers are outliers. Gavis will probably hit .250 and hit 15-20 HR. Iglesias will hit .260-.270 with 5 HR. Those numbers aren't bad - but they don't translate into huge upgrades. And let's not forget, both guys are probably at their peak. Numbers for guys like that usually don't get better as they age. Still, each is a decent player - likely to get you 2.0 WAR.


Home runs are up 22% this year and closer to 40% if you compare back about 5 years before they juiced the balls the first time.

Batting average is up much less but there are some guys that get a boost in average because of how they hit it and I think Galvis falls in that category.

Anyways, this is not that big of a deal given that the point does remain in each player's standing among league shortsops, but I wouldn't be surprised if Galvis puts these numbers up again next year if they keep the balls the same.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#73

Posted: August 27, 2019, 1:29 PM Post
Posts: 3722
We could trade Yelich for Gavin Lux

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#74

Posted: September 22, 2019, 8:20 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1108
Location: Pilgrim in an unholy land
3and2Fastball said:
We could trade Yelich for Gavin Lux


A Lux and Buehler offer would make me at least think about it...

What is best in life? To crush the Cardinals, Cubs, and Manny Machado, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their fanboys.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#75

Posted: September 22, 2019, 8:54 AM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 7059
The big thing with SS is that even a minor investment could yield the team a couple of wins.

Arcia has a -0.5 bWAR / -0.6 fWAR - which is pretty awful. The team could add someone like Inglesias - who's generally clocked in at a 1.5-2.0 WAR player - and that gets you two wins right there.

Inglesias shouldn't cost that much - maybe $4-5M - but I'm thinking the Reds will want to keep him. A lot would depend on if we would guarantee him a starting job - which we might not be willing to do.

If the club can re-sign Moose and Grandal, solidifying the SS position would be a smart move.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#76

Posted: September 22, 2019, 9:54 AM Post
Posts: 3060
reillymcshane said:
The big thing with SS is that even a minor investment could yield the team a couple of wins.

Arcia has a -0.5 bWAR / -0.6 fWAR - which is pretty awful. The team could add someone like Inglesias - who's generally clocked in at a 1.5-2.0 WAR player - and that gets you two wins right there.

Inglesias shouldn't cost that much - maybe $4-5M - but I'm thinking the Reds will want to keep him. A lot would depend on if we would guarantee him a starting job - which we might not be willing to do.

If the club can re-sign Moose and Grandal, solidifying the SS position would be a smart move.


I agree with you that we need to upgrade at SS. And I also agree that Iglesias should be our target. But I think it will cost closer to 8-10 mil. I would absolutely pay that, and tell him your our SS. Period. Reds are my home market team, and I watch a lot of their games. Iglesias is a fantastic defensive SS, a really good hitter, a great clutch hitter(best 2 strike hitter statistically in all of baseball), runs hard to 1B on every play, and is a leader. I’d call him one of the most underrated players in all of baseball. Overpay if necessary to steal him away from the reds, that signing alone would not just strengthen us, but just as important would hurt what could be our toughest competition for the central next year.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#77

Posted: September 22, 2019, 5:46 PM Post
Posts: 711
Brew crew 92 said:
reillymcshane said:
The big thing with SS is that even a minor investment could yield the team a couple of wins.

Arcia has a -0.5 bWAR / -0.6 fWAR - which is pretty awful. The team could add someone like Inglesias - who's generally clocked in at a 1.5-2.0 WAR player - and that gets you two wins right there.

Inglesias shouldn't cost that much - maybe $4-5M - but I'm thinking the Reds will want to keep him. A lot would depend on if we would guarantee him a starting job - which we might not be willing to do.

If the club can re-sign Moose and Grandal, solidifying the SS position would be a smart move.


I agree with you that we need to upgrade at SS. And I also agree that Iglesias should be our target. But I think it will cost closer to 8-10 mil. I would absolutely pay that, and tell him your our SS. Period. Reds are my home market team, and I watch a lot of their games. Iglesias is a fantastic defensive SS, a really good hitter, a great clutch hitter(best 2 strike hitter statistically in all of baseball), runs hard to 1B on every play, and is a leader. I’d call him one of the most underrated players in all of baseball. Overpay if necessary to steal him away from the reds, that signing alone would not just strengthen us, but just as important would hurt what could be our toughest competition for the central next year.


Can’t overpay at every position. Also can’t have 8+ mil guys at 7 of the 8 starting positional players. Leaves nothing for pitching. Just won’t work.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#78

Posted: September 22, 2019, 5:54 PM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 2529
Last year Iglesias hit 269/310/389 (88 OPS+). He got 1 year, 2.5 million.

This year Iglesias has hit 287/314/407 (85 OPS+).

Given most of the contending teams being pretty set at SS, I'd guess 8-10 million would probably buy you a couple two tree years of Jose easy.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#79

Posted: September 22, 2019, 5:56 PM Post
Posts: 11914
Jose Iglesias is no better this year than last. After 2018 he signed a $2.5mil contract. Reilly’s $5mil figure is already doubling his previous salary...$8-$10mil seems waaaay more than what it will cost. What did he do to deserve a quadruple in salary?

Didi is solid, but the numbers I have seen thrown around for him...hard pass.

Freddy Galvis. I mean, I guess he could be an option? Not really dying to add him though.

I don’t know what the trade market features. That could be a route to take. Quick glance shows nothing, but maybe I missed someone. In my opinion Iglesias is a solid option to try and bring in...I’d even keep Arcia around for utility purposes. If he doesn’t work rolling with Arcia one more year is sadly a likely scenario. As much as Arcia sucks a marginal upgrade seems like more work than it is worth.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Shortstop for 2020
#80

Posted: September 22, 2019, 6:06 PM Post
Posts: 3060
ThisIsMyCrew said:
Brew crew 92 said:
reillymcshane said:
The big thing with SS is that even a minor investment could yield the team a couple of wins.

Arcia has a -0.5 bWAR / -0.6 fWAR - which is pretty awful. The team could add someone like Inglesias - who's generally clocked in at a 1.5-2.0 WAR player - and that gets you two wins right there.

Inglesias shouldn't cost that much - maybe $4-5M - but I'm thinking the Reds will want to keep him. A lot would depend on if we would guarantee him a starting job - which we might not be willing to do.

If the club can re-sign Moose and Grandal, solidifying the SS position would be a smart move.


I agree with you that we need to upgrade at SS. And I also agree that Iglesias should be our target. But I think it will cost closer to 8-10 mil. I would absolutely pay that, and tell him your our SS. Period. Reds are my home market team, and I watch a lot of their games. Iglesias is a fantastic defensive SS, a really good hitter, a great clutch hitter(best 2 strike hitter statistically in all of baseball), runs hard to 1B on every play, and is a leader. I’d call him one of the most underrated players in all of baseball. Overpay if necessary to steal him away from the reds, that signing alone would not just strengthen us, but just as important would hurt what could be our toughest competition for the central next year.


Can’t overpay at every position. Also can’t have 8+ mil guys at 7 of the 8 starting positional players. Leaves nothing for pitching. Just won’t work.


Stearns likes our pitching, I like our pitching. Imo, we don’t need as much pitching help as positional help. Iglesias’s war not helped by his intangibles, all out hustle, clutch hitting etc., so his value is higher than his stats.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 11  Next  [ 202 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test