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Resigning Grandal & Moose

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Online  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#21

Posted: September 27, 2019, 10:33 AM Post
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Hoping Shaw rebounds is an even worse plan imo.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#22

Posted: September 27, 2019, 11:18 AM Post
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Outlander said:
Bigger and longer is subjective.


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"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Online  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#23

Posted: September 27, 2019, 1:29 PM Post
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I don't think it's always money by any stretch. A lot of guys really don't want to lose. In baseball specifically, that can be a pretty brutal existence, relatively speaking. When you're 10 games under .500 in May, I don't care how much they make, that has to suck for a pro athlete. Especially in a sport where you play every day. They make more than a living wage anywhere they play, so I think the intangibles matter more than most people think.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#24

Posted: September 27, 2019, 1:38 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
Jopal78! said:
turborickey said:
I think both players will have multiple teams that want them.

The bottom line is this: Do they want to stay with the Brewers and possibly take a little less than they might get on the open market? I'm not talking about deep hometown discounts, I'm talking about accepting our offers that are near what other teams are offering. Do they like it here enough to go that route?

I want them both back, it will suck seeing our roster next season without them if Cain continues to regress, and Arcia just never figures things out. If we don't sign Moose, is DS content with the possibility of Shaw getting right? Talk about a risk.



I always hate it when people talk about players “wanting to stay”. They play for money so whomever offers the most money usually gets the player. Just today, Yelich said he’d like to be a Brewer forever, but “the business side has to work out” ie the money has to be right.

Pro ball players are a fraternity and when you’re a 1%er living in the lap of luxury the members of the fraternity you go to work with and the city you work in 90 days a year are less important than the money.

Grandal could improve at least a half dozen clubs with aims of contending in 2020. It will be tough winning a bidding war for him. I can picture Moustakas coming back but whomever loses out on Josh Donaldson would surely engage Moustakas as a fall back option


Grandal had at least one multi-year deal on the table but chose Milwaukee. It doesn't ALWAYS just come down to the dollars although I agree that often it does.


If you look up the articles from when Grandal signed with the Brewers. He took the one year deal because of the average annual value was in line with what the top earners at catcher are paid. You are correct, Grandal's deal wasn't the most overall money he could have received, but his contract with Milwaukee was the most money per season that he was offered.

In so far as resigning Grandal and Moustakas, they kind of have to resign one of them (if not both) or they'll have some pretty big holes in their lineup going forward. 62 Homers, 55 doubles, 162 walks, 162 RBI, 158 Runs scored. There isn't anyone on their 40 man roster that they can conceivably plug in and get that level of production from.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#25

Posted: September 27, 2019, 1:47 PM Post
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Hiura will be there for a full season. That is some of the production (hopefully). There may be trades that could be had. I don't think it is simply sign them or there will be black holes.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#26

Posted: September 27, 2019, 7:27 PM Post
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I wouldn't mind offering 3 year contracts to both Grandal and Moustakas, really hope the Brewers re-sign both guys.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#27

Posted: September 28, 2019, 9:15 PM Post
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See Grandal running tonight. It’s only going to get worse.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#28

Posted: September 29, 2019, 2:22 PM Post
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The Brewers have a window of opportunity to win over the next three years. Yelich is the key player - he's the kind of guy that can transform an offense. We control him through 2022. That's the time frame that we can shoot for.

The offense includes Yelich, Cain (hopefully healthy and better), Grisham and Hiura. As well as Braun and (probably) Thames through next season. While retaining Moose and Grandal would be expensive, it would fit perfectly into the Brewers offense for the next 2-3 years.

Let's face it - we have no obvious replacement for Moose (unless a Shaw rebound in likely), and no one for Grandal (Nottingham doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, and the younger players, such as Feliciano, are years away - and are not sure things).

With any player, a long term deal is risky. But the options are not great. We simply don't have the talent in the upper minors ready to step in. And we don't have excess talent on the major league roster to deal to fill holes.

If we let Moose and/or Grandal walk - we likely replace him with a worse player. Maybe Shaw rebounds, but I don't know. Lucas Erceg hasn't shown he is the answer. FA options are either too expensive (Donaldson, Rendon) or not good enough/aging (Frazier, Prado, etc.). Grandal's replacement would probably be someone to platoon with Manny Pina. Not terrible, but a downgrade.

In the end, I think the club tries to bring both back - but there are some big risks. We would be relying on a lot of older players. However, the options just aren't that great.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#29

Posted: September 29, 2019, 2:47 PM Post
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Highest I would go on Yaz is prolly 3/50. Yes, there is certain risk for a catcher over 30 with a lot of innings (5,574 since 2014, 3rd most in MLB) caught, but there's also a huge drop off offensively from Grandal to anyone we could realistically replace him with.

I don't think Moustakas has much more of a market this winter than he did either of the two previous, I'd imagine 2/20 would get it done.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#30

Posted: September 30, 2019, 6:28 AM Post
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turborickey said:
If we don't sign Moose, is DS content with the possibility of Shaw getting right? Talk about a risk.


I don't know that he would have much choice. We're not signing Rendon. I don't see Donaldson coming here. And the rest of the free agents aren't any better than Shaw, and are older to boot. Hope and pray on Shaw and try to find a club that has a guy blocked by their current 3B you can trade for.

Unless you find that blocked player - I wouldn't play around with Moose. 2 years $25M


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Online  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#31

Posted: September 30, 2019, 7:09 AM Post
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I'm thinking that CC riding Grandal as hard as he has the past month means they might not have any plans to bring him back. Reminds me of Sabathia. We aren't going to re-sign him, so get the most innings you possibly can from them, and let their next team deal with the wear and tear...

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#32

Posted: September 30, 2019, 7:40 AM Post
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turborickey said:
I'm thinking that CC riding Grandal as hard as he has the past month means they might not have any plans to bring him back. Reminds me of Sabathia. We aren't going to re-sign him, so get the most innings you possibly can from them, and let their next team deal with the wear and tear...


Grandal's role next year and beyond if he stuck with Brewers would shift more to 1B as it did after the Aguilar trade. Feliciano could be ready by 2021, and Thames has just one more year of control.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#33

Posted: September 30, 2019, 9:16 AM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
turborickey said:
I'm thinking that CC riding Grandal as hard as he has the past month means they might not have any plans to bring him back. Reminds me of Sabathia. We aren't going to re-sign him, so get the most innings you possibly can from them, and let their next team deal with the wear and tear...


Grandal's role next year and beyond if he stuck with Brewers would shift more to 1B as it did after the Aguilar trade. Feliciano could be ready by 2021, and Thames has just one more year of control.


Feliciano is an interesting prospect catcher. Brewers are very concerned with his Ks and his blocking low pitches. Almost 32% Ks at A+ is alarming. He hit in the .270s, but has to improve as he moves up. He seems to be a better prospect than Henry. Nottingham seems to have a ceiling as a low level back-up, so they need to look deeper.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#34

Posted: October 01, 2019, 4:45 PM Post
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Re-sign...

Have to believe they would like one back, probably Grandal at catcher.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#35

Posted: October 01, 2019, 9:17 PM Post
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Grandal should be priority #1 this off season and Moose can walk unless he wants to come back on a 1-year deal at $8m.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#36

Posted: October 01, 2019, 9:58 PM Post
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turborickey said:
Hoping Shaw rebounds is an even worse plan imo.


I agree. But I think that is what the Brewers will do. They'll go into Spring Training hoping Shaw rebounds while considering platooning him with Spangenburg & having a glimmer of hope that Erceg finally starts raking.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#37

Posted: October 02, 2019, 5:37 AM Post
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nate82 said:
Grandal should be priority #1 this off season and Moose can walk unless he wants to come back on a 1-year deal at $8m.



This is where I am. However, I think Moose may end up coming back on another 1-year deal.


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Online  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#38

Posted: October 02, 2019, 7:08 AM Post
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*Clears Throat*

Yasmani Grandal's impact on this team is overrated and should not be a priority to sign.


If the cost is an expensive 3 year deal walk away and spend it on someone else. Moustakas will be just as cheap and provide similar offense. I get Grandal plays a more premium position, but I don't believe his impact is so much more greater than Pina that it is worth tens of millions. First off offensively Grandal had an .850 OPS compared to Pina at .725. That is a large difference, but not that incredible. When taking into consideration defense I think the overall difference is greatly diminished. Pina put up 0.7 WAR in about 150 ABs where Grandal put up 2.6 WAR in about 500 ABs. I just don't think the production gap is big enough there to justify a major deal for Grandal.

Depending on Grandal to keep hitting like an elite catcher for 3 years is risky business as is. He could turn into a sub .800 OPS catcher real quick and suddenly be average at best considering his defense. Just not worth the risk in my opinion. We are better off spending that money elsewhere.

To me, considering we don't have an obvious 3B replacement either, Moustakas is a more valuable player and the better sign. Same impact, less money/risk.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#39

Posted: October 02, 2019, 7:19 AM Post
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MrTPlush said:
ons. First off offensively Grandal had an .850 OPS compared to Pina at .725. That is a large difference, but not that incredible.


It is quite a large difference and Grandal did it while playing every day basically. I love Pina....as a backup. I think he's a perfect backup which means having a great starter is very valuable cause you never feel like you're missing a beat. I don't trust Pina's OPS to hold up that well if he's starting every day and I also don't expect him to play as much as Yaz which means our backup gets more time and we don't even really have a great option there either.


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Online  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#40

Posted: October 02, 2019, 7:32 AM Post
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Dadbauer said:
MrTPlush said:
ons. First off offensively Grandal had an .850 OPS compared to Pina at .725. That is a large difference, but not that incredible.


It is quite a large difference and Grandal did it while playing every day basically. I love Pina....as a backup. I think he's a perfect backup which means having a great starter is very valuable cause you never feel like you're missing a beat. I don't trust Pina's OPS to hold up that well if he's starting every day and I also don't expect him to play as much as Yaz which means our backup gets more time and we don't even really have a great option there either.


I think Pina has basically proven that he's a solid backup .. perhaps one of if not the best backup catchers in the league. But he wears down when depended on for a near everyday role. I think that if Grandal is not resigned, you at least have to find a platoon mate that can do a 50/50 playing time split with Pina. i don't know if they'd be willing to hand that role to Nottingham or Freitas.


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