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Resigning Grandal & Moose

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Online  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#61

Posted: October 03, 2019, 7:28 AM Post
Posts: 12148
Smichaelis9 said:
MrTPlush said:
So if one is adamant to sign Grandal and makes the assumption he and Moustakas both won’t return together:

Who on earth are you inserting at 3B that is affordable and isn’t breaking the bank...and probably not even close to denting the bank?

Todd Frazier? He was basically average this year. But he might dent the bank. Otherwise yeah, I’m not sure...maybe Braun?


That is where it gets dicey for me. If you are going to be stuck with an .850 OPS guy and a black hole...just sign the cheaper/less risky .850 OPS guy.


Grandal - $17mil .848 OPS
Frazier - $7mil .772 OPS
Pina - $2mil
$26million

Moustakas $12mil .845 OPS
Travis d'Arnaud/Jason Castro C - $7mil .782/.767 OPS
Pina - $2mil
$21million

Similar production, less money, less commitment, Pina isn't the starter, and less risky.

If you roll with Pina as the starter it would be nearly $10mil cheaper to just go with Moustakas. We could also go after Robinson Chirinos, but I fear he will get enough interest the cost/commitment may just make it too risky.

I like the catchers market this year, quite a few solid offensive guys after Grandal looking at it. Grandal is king, but I think the value is definitely elsewhere.


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Online  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#62

Posted: October 03, 2019, 8:46 AM Post
Posts: 787
Location: Washburn, WI
MrTPlush said:
Smichaelis9 said:
MrTPlush said:
So if one is adamant to sign Grandal and makes the assumption he and Moustakas both won’t return together:

Who on earth are you inserting at 3B that is affordable and isn’t breaking the bank...and probably not even close to denting the bank?

Todd Frazier? He was basically average this year. But he might dent the bank. Otherwise yeah, I’m not sure...maybe Braun?


That is where it gets dicey for me. If you are going to be stuck with an .850 OPS guy and a black hole...just sign the cheaper/less risky .850 OPS guy.


Grandal - $17mil .848 OPS
Frazier - $7mil .772 OPS
Pina - $2mil
$26million

Moustakas $12mil .845 OPS
Travis d'Arnaud/Jason Castro C - $7mil .782/.767 OPS
Pina - $2mil
$21million

Similar production, less money, less commitment, Pina isn't the starter, and less risky.

If you roll with Pina as the starter it would be nearly $10mil cheaper to just go with Moustakas. We could also go after Robinson Chirinos, but I fear he will get enough interest the cost/commitment may just make it too risky.

I like the catchers market this year, quite a few solid offensive guys after Grandal looking at it. Grandal is king, but I think the value is definitely elsewhere.


This is where I am. Sign a second tier catcher, bring back Moose, and have plenty left over to go out and get an upgrade at SS or in the rotation or possibly both.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#63

Posted: October 03, 2019, 9:00 AM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
I like that scenario but I'll keep Arica if it means upgrading pitching.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Online  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#64

Posted: October 03, 2019, 9:14 AM Post
Posts: 12148
Brew4U said:
I like that scenario but I'll keep Arica if it means upgrading pitching.


After we square away catcher and 3B it is tough to know what we can or cannot do. Unless you are Mr.92 and know the payroll numbers to heart.

If the above (or similar) happened I would like to resign Pomeranz and get some kind of veteran starter. I would guess that is about maxing out the pre season payroll. I am not too concerned about Arcia if we get a more competent offensive catcher. If we go with Pina as the starter then I would hope they find a better offensive SS.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#65

Posted: October 07, 2019, 8:01 AM Post
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MLB.com article talking about how good Grandal was this year. GMs are going to know this too
https://www.mlb.com/news/yasmani-granda ... -available


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#66

Posted: October 07, 2019, 8:05 AM Post
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Grandal is going to get paid, there is no doubt.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#67

Posted: October 07, 2019, 9:16 AM Post
Posts: 729
It really will be interesting to see what Grandal ends up signing for. If we are to believe the mets offer of 4/60mm last winter is accurate then we have a pretty good idea of what the floor is for a deal. (3/$15mm for a longer term deal or 1/$19mm for a 1 year deal)

Grandal isn't really a different player than he was last year and he's a year older. I'm skeptical that he far exceeds that mets offer from last year. I think 3/$54 with a club option makes some sense, but only 4 position players received deals at least 3 years long last winter (Harper, Machado, Pollock, and Escobar). Pretty much every other all star caliber player got 2 year deals. So 2/$38 also makes sense to me too.


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Online  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#68

Posted: October 07, 2019, 9:52 AM Post
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Grandal had a very nice season offensively in a stadium that definitely plays into helping his offense, and stayed healthy all year. The only difference this year is that he no longer has losing a pick factored into signing him. Will that make a difference?


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#69

Posted: October 07, 2019, 9:55 AM Post
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2 for 38 million....I'd do that ASAP! I just don't want to do more than 2 to wrap him up.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#70

Posted: October 07, 2019, 11:12 AM Post
Posts: 729
There were more 3+ year deals in 2017/18. No perfect comps, but could support Grandal getting a 3-4 year deal. I don't think anything prior to 2017/18 is relevant since we saw such a dramatic shift in the free agent market that winter.

hosmer 8 years
Upton, Cain, Jd Martinez, 5 years
Cozart, Santana 3 years.

Although the Hosmer and cosart deals look bad. Santana deal looks ok, but he was already traded once. JD Martinez has been great and might opt out. Cain and Upton are sorta TBD, but probably going to be pretty bad in a year or two even if the up front end production was quite good.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#71

Posted: October 07, 2019, 2:34 PM Post
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turborickey said:
2 for 38 million....I'd do that ASAP! I just don't want to do more than 2 to wrap him up.


Agreed. A two year deal would be perfect. Anything under $20 a year seems like a good value


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#72

Posted: October 07, 2019, 4:31 PM Post
Posts: 499
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Dadbauer said:
MrTPlush said:
ons. First off offensively Grandal had an .850 OPS compared to Pina at .725. That is a large difference, but not that incredible.


It is quite a large difference and Grandal did it while playing every day basically. I love Pina....as a backup. I think he's a perfect backup which means having a great starter is very valuable cause you never feel like you're missing a beat. I don't trust Pina's OPS to hold up that well if he's starting every day and I also don't expect him to play as much as Yaz which means our backup gets more time and we don't even really have a great option there either.


I think Pina has basically proven that he's a solid backup .. perhaps one of if not the best backup catchers in the league. But he wears down when depended on for a near everyday role. I think that if Grandal is not resigned, you at least have to find a platoon mate that can do a 50/50 playing time split with Pina. i don't know if they'd be willing to hand that role to Nottingham or Freitas.


I think you got your answer about Freitas and Nottingham this year when Pina got hurt. They think so little of Freitas they didn't trust him to catch even one inning. If they bring him back it will be as the AAA catcher again. Nottingham was used strictly in mopup duty and then only twice. If Stearns decides not to re-sign Grandal, he'll look outside the farm to find another catcher.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#73

Posted: October 13, 2019, 11:28 AM Post
Posts: 104
Grandal was great this year, but analytical teams are not going to shell out a big long-term contract to a soon-to-be 31 y/o catcher. Posada is probably the most notable exception, otherwise many of the better catchers see a decline around their 31st or 32nd birthday. Molina, Posey, and Martin all made a lot of money this year with minimal production. A contract longer than two years would be quite a risk.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#74

Posted: October 20, 2019, 5:52 AM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
It’d be great if our GM could find a diamond in the rough via a trade at either of these positions so we don’t have to pay through the nose just to have a competent lineup.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#75

Posted: October 20, 2019, 8:50 AM Post
Posts: 12131
Don't forget, if Grandal leaves, that leaves Austin as the RH portion of the 1B platoon. He does have nice numbers against LHP in his career, but he strikes out a ton even by today's standards.


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Online  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#76

Posted: October 20, 2019, 9:33 AM Post
Posts: 12148
It doesn’t leave Austin as anything. It is the off-season. There are probably a dozen plus other options. Between trade and actual free agency we could find someone better than Austin cheaply/easily.

I think they would target someone with a better track record and more reliable. Austin could be decent or a total disaster. We don’t want Thames hitting against LHP.


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Online  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#77

Posted: October 21, 2019, 12:02 PM Post
Posts: 4812
Location: Madison, WI
Agree with Plush there. Don't forget Braun getting a chunk of ABs tehre. But yea you have the whole offseason to get a guy to fill that role. I think they should target a 1B/3B combo guy as a backup.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#78

Posted: October 21, 2019, 12:54 PM Post
Posts: 12131
MrTPlush said:
It doesn’t leave Austin as anything. It is the off-season. There are probably a dozen plus other options. Between trade and actual free agency we could find someone better than Austin cheaply/easily.

I think they would target someone with a better track record and more reliable. Austin could be decent or a total disaster. We don’t want Thames hitting against LHP.


So that's another hole to fill which was my point exactly. Trading Aguilar for just a another disposable arm still has me scratching my head. It wasn't like Jesus had sunk to Shaw type levels.


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#79

Posted: October 21, 2019, 1:50 PM Post
Posts: 3806
JohnBriggs12 said:
MrTPlush said:
It doesn’t leave Austin as anything. It is the off-season. There are probably a dozen plus other options. Between trade and actual free agency we could find someone better than Austin cheaply/easily.

I think they would target someone with a better track record and more reliable. Austin could be decent or a total disaster. We don’t want Thames hitting against LHP.


So that's another hole to fill which was my point exactly. Trading Aguilar for just a another disposable arm still has me scratching my head. It wasn't like Jesus had sunk to Shaw type levels.

Calling that situation a "hole" is a gigantic stretch in my opinion. Aguilar had a run but a lot of AAAA type players do. I don't think we will miss him much. A RH platoon option at first shouldn't be at all hard to fill.

but it's not like every guy suddenly forgot every piece of advice he gave


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Offline  Re: Resigning Grandal & Moose
#80

Posted: October 21, 2019, 3:19 PM Post
Posts: 3741
We had Grandal & Moose and made it to the Wild Card game & no further. If we have a limited budget, why would re-signing them help us get any further if we don't do anything to bolster our pitching?

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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