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Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)

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Offline  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#41

Posted: November 20, 2019, 1:54 PM Post
Posts: 72
Wheeler is way better than Lyles in just about every category that matters. The one that is most interesting is how does Lyles have a Negative Career WAR while Wheeler is 10.2 Career WAR. This isn't comparable. If the Brewers want to be cheap they go Lyles. if they want to get serious they open the pocketbook and spend a little bit..


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Online  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#42

Posted: November 20, 2019, 1:59 PM Post
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Jkromb said:
Wheeler is way better than Lyles in just about every category that matters. The one that is most interesting is how does Lyles have a Negative Career WAR while Wheeler is 10.2 Career WAR. This isn't comparable. If the Brewers want to be cheap they go Lyles. if they want to get serious they open the pocketbook and spend a little bit..


Wheeler's injury history scares the beejesus out of me. I also disagree that a signing of Lyles is any sort of indication that the Brewers aren't being "serious". Wheeler may be one of the more talented pitchers on the market, but that doesn't mean that signing him doesn't carry a lot of risk.


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Offline  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#43

Posted: November 20, 2019, 2:02 PM Post
Posts: 72
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Jkromb said:
Wheeler is way better than Lyles in just about every category that matters. The one that is most interesting is how does Lyles have a Negative Career WAR while Wheeler is 10.2 Career WAR. This isn't comparable. If the Brewers want to be cheap they go Lyles. if they want to get serious they open the pocketbook and spend a little bit..


Wheeler's injury history scares the beejesus out of me. I also disagree that a signing of Lyles is any sort of indication that the Brewers aren't being "serious". Wheeler may be one of the more talented pitchers on the market, but that doesn't mean that signing him doesn't carry a lot of risk.


Everyone has their "risks." Brewers havent been real willing to do much and thats why you see them not winning WS.


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Online  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#44

Posted: November 20, 2019, 2:04 PM Post
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Jkromb said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Jkromb said:
Wheeler is way better than Lyles in just about every category that matters. The one that is most interesting is how does Lyles have a Negative Career WAR while Wheeler is 10.2 Career WAR. This isn't comparable. If the Brewers want to be cheap they go Lyles. if they want to get serious they open the pocketbook and spend a little bit..


Wheeler's injury history scares the beejesus out of me. I also disagree that a signing of Lyles is any sort of indication that the Brewers aren't being "serious". Wheeler may be one of the more talented pitchers on the market, but that doesn't mean that signing him doesn't carry a lot of risk.


Everyone has their "risks." Brewers havent been real willing to do much and thats why you see them not winning WS.


Define "much". Because this team has been very active in recent years acquiring players both via trade and through free agency to get better.


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Offline  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#45

Posted: November 20, 2019, 2:13 PM Post
Posts: 72
Wheeler's injury history scares the beejesus out of me. I also disagree that a signing of Lyles is any sort of indication that the Brewers aren't being "serious". Wheeler may be one of the more talented pitchers on the market, but that doesn't mean that signing him doesn't carry a lot of risk.[/quote]

Everyone has their "risks." Brewers havent been real willing to do much and thats why you see them not winning WS.[/quote]

Define "much". Because this team has been very active in recent years acquiring players both via trade and through free agency to get better.[/quote]

When was the last time they invested serious capital whether that be trade or free agency into a starting pitcher? and moreso on that line the last time they invested serious money into a pitcher?


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Online  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#46

Posted: November 20, 2019, 2:17 PM Post
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Jkromb said:
When was the last time they invested serious capital whether that be trade or free agency into a starting pitcher? and moreso on that line the last time they invested serious money into a pitcher?


Probably Garza, Lohse and Suppan via free agency. Track record certainly hasn't been stellar there.

Greinke was hit trade-wise, as was CC obviously.


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Online  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#47

Posted: November 20, 2019, 3:36 PM Post
Posts: 5273
Location: New Berlin, WI
Giving a 4 year deal to Wheeler(which he'll probably command) is probably like giving a 3 year deal to Brandon Morrow. We all saw how that turned out, and Morrow was a reliever. It's even that much more risky for Wheeler.


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Offline  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#48

Posted: November 20, 2019, 3:37 PM Post
Posts: 72
dont think those are very good examples.


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Online  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#49

Posted: November 20, 2019, 3:38 PM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Jkromb said:
When was the last time they invested serious capital whether that be trade or free agency into a starting pitcher? and moreso on that line the last time they invested serious money into a pitcher?


Probably Garza, Lohse and Suppan via free agency. Track record certainly hasn't been stellar there.

Greinke was hit trade-wise, as was CC obviously.

How does any Brewers fan not remember those guys??? Even signing Jhoulys Chacin wasn't exactly a sure thing when they took a shot on him as a free agent 2 seasons ago, it was modest at around 2 years $15M but still a risk.


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Offline  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#50

Posted: November 20, 2019, 3:43 PM Post
Posts: 72
i remember them. They weren't big names. CC and Greinke are the only big name SP's the Brewers have had in the last 11 years.


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Online  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#51

Posted: November 20, 2019, 3:47 PM Post
Posts: 5273
Location: New Berlin, WI
Jkromb said:
Wheeler is way better than Lyles in just about every category that matters. The one that is most interesting is how does Lyles have a Negative Career WAR while Wheeler is 10.2 Career WAR. This isn't comparable. If the Brewers want to be cheap they go Lyles. if they want to get serious they open the pocketbook and spend a little bit..


Oh interesting, another poster that doesn't realize the Brewers are on a budget and can't spend infinite money...

Why would you waste time with Wheeler when Cole and Strasburg are available?


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Online  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#52

Posted: November 20, 2019, 3:54 PM Post
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Jkromb said:
i remember them. They weren't big names. CC and Greinke are the only big name SP's the Brewers have had in the last 11 years.


Wow. I'd argue that Garza was every bit the "name" Wheeler was at the time of his signing. Suppan was considered a major "get" at the time as well, while Lohse was a big signing too. Just because those guys didn't put up huge numbers in there time at Brewers doesn't mean that they weren't considered very big acquisitions at the time.

In the end Suppan was a bust, but Garza and Lohse at least lived up to a big portion of their bug deals.


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Offline  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#53

Posted: November 20, 2019, 4:40 PM Post
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Lohse was pretty good his first year.


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Offline  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#54

Posted: November 20, 2019, 6:19 PM Post
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Location: bush Alaska
I wouldn't say Garza lived up to his deal. He had a pretty decent first year, it was mostly injuries and garbage after that. Very inconsistent. As soon as he'd get it going, he'd get hurt.

Wolfie, on the other hand, lived up to his until the last season. Lohse too.


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Offline  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#55

Posted: November 21, 2019, 12:26 AM Post
Posts: 940
Location: Washburn, WI
i know it hasn’t been talked about much, but could Strasburg be a target for the Brewers? I just have a hard time thinking the Brewers aren’t going to do something substantial with their starting pitching. Maybe not quite Strasburg level, but I do think that if the Brewers are serious about winning a World Series (which they are), they need to get a horse to rely on who can give the bullpen an easy day most of the time when he starts. Also, having a guy like him leading the rotation into the postseason that can start for you 2-3 times in a series is a must if you’re going to have a real shot at winning the whole thing.

There aren’t many of those guys available, but you need to have at least one guy like that to have a legit shot in the postseason. We can fill out the rest of the rotation with Davies/Houser types, but I think it’s time to get a guy. I’ve had a feeling that Stearns is going to surprise us with some big starting pitching acquisition this offseason with how it’s been mostly neglected the last few years and just how bad our rotation really was at times last season.

What would Strasburg be looking at for a deal? Would 6/$165 million get it done? The time is now with having a super star on a team friendly deal for 3 years. Our window is arguably that time frame. If we are rebuilding and have Strasburg under contract for a couple more years, it’s no big deal. If he’s pitching well, we move him and add some nice prospects down the road. If he loses effectiveness down the road, no harm done. I just think that it’s time to do something big with the rotation and I truly believe Stearns is going to do just that.

Having him and Woodruff making 5 starts combined in a series going 7 games sounds pretty darn good to me. Mix in Davies, Houser, and someone like Lyles for the regular season and we will have a very good rotation. Let’s bring in a workhorse and make a real run at a World Series.


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Offline  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#56

Posted: November 21, 2019, 12:43 AM Post
Posts: 72
KeithStone53151 said:
Jkromb said:
Wheeler is way better than Lyles in just about every category that matters. The one that is most interesting is how does Lyles have a Negative Career WAR while Wheeler is 10.2 Career WAR. This isn't comparable. If the Brewers want to be cheap they go Lyles. if they want to get serious they open the pocketbook and spend a little bit..


Oh interesting, another poster that doesn't realize the Brewers are on a budget and can't spend infinite money...

Why would you waste time with Wheeler when Cole and Strasburg are available?


There is a major difference between being on a budget and saying you are poor and just not spending any money because you want to line your own pockets even more.


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Offline  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#57

Posted: November 21, 2019, 12:48 AM Post
Posts: 72
RollieTime said:
i know it hasn’t been talked about much, but could Strasburg be a target for the Brewers? I just have a hard time thinking the Brewers aren’t going to do something substantial with their starting pitching. Maybe not quite Strasburg level, but I do think that if the Brewers are serious about winning a World Series (which they are), they need to get a horse to rely on who can give the bullpen an easy day most of the time when he starts. Also, having a guy like him leading the rotation into the postseason that can start for you 2-3 times in a series is a must if you’re going to have a real shot at winning the whole thing.

There aren’t many of those guys available, but you need to have at least one guy like that to have a legit shot in the postseason. We can fill out the rest of the rotation with Davies/Houser types, but I think it’s time to get a guy. I’ve had a feeling that Stearns is going to surprise us with some big starting pitching acquisition this offseason with how it’s been mostly neglected the last few years and just how bad our rotation really was at times last season.

What would Strasburg be looking at for a deal? Would 6/$165 million get it done? The time is now with having a super star on a team friendly deal for 3 years. Our window is arguably that time frame. If we are rebuilding and have Strasburg under contract for a couple more years, it’s no big deal. If he’s pitching well, we move him and add some nice prospects down the road. If he loses effectiveness down the road, no harm done. I just think that it’s time to do something big with the rotation and I truly believe Stearns is going to do just that.

Having him and Woodruff making 5 starts combined in a series going 7 games sounds pretty darn good to me. Mix in Davies, Houser, and someone like Lyles for the regular season and we will have a very good rotation. Let’s bring in a workhorse and make a real run at a World Series.


EXACTLY!!! Mark A has money that he can spend. often times we say oh well we can't compete with these big market teams, but it is so innaccuarate to the extent that people say it. Can they spend $200mill a year? No, but they could likely go to $160-$175 million for a few years and then go back down to a more moderate level (100-120mill a year).


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Offline  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#58

Posted: November 21, 2019, 6:26 AM Post
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Jkromb said:

EXACTLY!!! Mark A has money that he can spend. often times we say oh well we can't compete with these big market teams, but it is so innaccuarate to the extent that people say it. Can they spend $200mill a year? No, but they could likely go to $160-$175 million for a few years and then go back down to a more moderate level (100-120mill a year).


You're basing that statement on what, exactly?


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Online  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#59

Posted: November 21, 2019, 7:10 AM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
Jkromb said:

EXACTLY!!! Mark A has money that he can spend. often times we say oh well we can't compete with these big market teams, but it is so innaccuarate to the extent that people say it. Can they spend $200mill a year? No, but they could likely go to $160-$175 million for a few years and then go back down to a more moderate level (100-120mill a year).


You're basing that statement on what, exactly?


Why does it feel like Groundhog Day?


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Online  Re: Free Agent Starting Pitchers (not named Gerrit Cole)
#60

Posted: November 21, 2019, 10:17 AM Post
Posts: 609
Jkromb said:
RollieTime said:
i know it hasn’t been talked about much, but could Strasburg be a target for the Brewers? I just have a hard time thinking the Brewers aren’t going to do something substantial with their starting pitching. Maybe not quite Strasburg level, but I do think that if the Brewers are serious about winning a World Series (which they are), they need to get a horse to rely on who can give the bullpen an easy day most of the time when he starts. Also, having a guy like him leading the rotation into the postseason that can start for you 2-3 times in a series is a must if you’re going to have a real shot at winning the whole thing.

There aren’t many of those guys available, but you need to have at least one guy like that to have a legit shot in the postseason. We can fill out the rest of the rotation with Davies/Houser types, but I think it’s time to get a guy. I’ve had a feeling that Stearns is going to surprise us with some big starting pitching acquisition this offseason with how it’s been mostly neglected the last few years and just how bad our rotation really was at times last season.

What would Strasburg be looking at for a deal? Would 6/$165 million get it done? The time is now with having a super star on a team friendly deal for 3 years. Our window is arguably that time frame. If we are rebuilding and have Strasburg under contract for a couple more years, it’s no big deal. If he’s pitching well, we move him and add some nice prospects down the road. If he loses effectiveness down the road, no harm done. I just think that it’s time to do something big with the rotation and I truly believe Stearns is going to do just that.

Having him and Woodruff making 5 starts combined in a series going 7 games sounds pretty darn good to me. Mix in Davies, Houser, and someone like Lyles for the regular season and we will have a very good rotation. Let’s bring in a workhorse and make a real run at a World Series.


EXACTLY!!! Mark A has money that he can spend. often times we say oh well we can't compete with these big market teams, but it is so innaccuarate to the extent that people say it. Can they spend $200mill a year? No, but they could likely go to $160-$175 million for a few years and then go back down to a more moderate level (100-120mill a year).


Where did you come up with the $175M figure and how do you know M.A. can spend that much for 3-4 years? As far as I know, Mark A nor Stearns has ever come out with a figure on max spending.


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