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What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?

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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 9:41 AM Post
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A Swing and A Drive said:
Would have thought we could be players on a SP from the Madison Bumgarner tier, however.


So what in David Stearns' history as a GM indicates that the Brewers would have been players at a tier that is paying starting pitchers near $100 million deals? If you are under that sort of delusional believe, sorry, that disappointment is entirely on you.


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 9:42 AM Post
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One of the most baffling things to me right now is that the Diamondbacks just made a move to at least suggest they want to be semi-competitive.

And now their volatile, yet sometimes very good starting pitcher, Robbie Ray, is available to most fans for some reason. I'm very confused.


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 10:05 AM Post
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bill hAll Star said:
One of the most baffling things to me right now is that the Diamondbacks just made a move to at least suggest they want to be semi-competitive.

And now their volatile, yet sometimes very good starting pitcher, Robbie Ray, is available to most fans for some reason. I'm very confused.


It's actually a pretty brilliant move IMO. They are basically signing Bumgarner to replace Ray, and in doing so, created/increased the nice trade market for Ray with all the teams that were interested in Bumgarner and missed out.

They can keep their farm system stocked by trading Ray, while staying competitive by signing Bumgarner to fill his void.

On a side note, I believe the Dbacks really fleeced the Marlins by acquiring P Zac Gallen for SS prospect Jazz Chisholm last year.


Last edited by A Swing and A Drive on December 16, 2019, 11:09 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 10:23 AM Post
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A Swing and A Drive said:
bill hAll Star said:
One of the most baffling things to me right now is that the Diamondbacks just made a move to at least suggest they want to be semi-competitive.

And now their volatile, yet sometimes very good starting pitcher, Robbie Ray, is available to most fans for some reason. I'm very confused.


It's actually a pretty brilliant move IMO. They are basically signing Bumgarner to replace Ray, and in doing so, created/increased the nice trade market for Ray with all the teams that were interested in Bumgarner and missed out.

They can keep their farm system stocked by trading Ray, while staying competitive but signing Bumgarner to fill his void.

On a side note, I believe the Dbacks really fleeced the Marlins by acquiring P Zac Gallen for SS prospect Jazz Chisholm last year.


I realize that the D-Backs are already a team that runs the mediocrity treadmill but do they get to hang some sort of banner for "stocked farm system" while their expensive signing, MadBum, helps carry them to 82 wins? To me, the signing means they are going to try to win, even if the attempt is feeble under direction from management. I could see trading Ray to fill a different position of need, but why trade away a good player if you're trying to win this year?


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 10:28 AM Post
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I think the market this offseason is really going to make guys shy away from 1 year deals. This year's market is so good, why roll the dice on a 1 year higher AAV not knowing what next year's market will be like? Too risky, could get a bad market or worse end up injured or having a down year in '20.

The only players it really makes sense for are the ones who underperformed in '19 due to either injury or a down season who are looking to rebuild their value quickly, guys like Didi. Ryu and Donaldson just don't fall into that category.


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Online  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 10:55 AM Post
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bill hAll Star said:
I realize that the D-Backs are already a team that runs the mediocrity treadmill but do they get to hang some sort of banner for "stocked farm system" while their expensive signing, MadBum, helps carry them to 82 wins? To me, the signing means they are going to try to win, even if the attempt is feeble under direction from management. I could see trading Ray to fill a different position of need, but why trade away a good player if you're trying to win this year?

If they trade Robbie Ray I think they will definitely require MLB ready pieces in return. With the benefit of hindsight it appears they did well last year by trading Goldschmidt's expiring contract for Carson Kelly and Luke Weaver (forgetting the third piece they received). I could see them similarly using Robbie Ray to acquire younger MLB players with years of control.


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 11:07 AM Post
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Eye Black said:
bill hAll Star said:
I realize that the D-Backs are already a team that runs the mediocrity treadmill but do they get to hang some sort of banner for "stocked farm system" while their expensive signing, MadBum, helps carry them to 82 wins? To me, the signing means they are going to try to win, even if the attempt is feeble under direction from management. I could see trading Ray to fill a different position of need, but why trade away a good player if you're trying to win this year?

If they trade Robbie Ray I think they will definitely require MLB ready pieces in return. With the benefit of hindsight it appears they did well last year by trading Goldschmidt's expiring contract for Carson Kelly and Luke Weaver (forgetting the third piece they received). I could see them similarly using Robbie Ray to acquire younger MLB players with years of control.


The Diamondbacks have a huge need in their bullpen that is holding them back from being a competitive ballclub, but have depth in some other places that would help the Brewers. Would a Hader deal with Ray/Eduardo Escobar as the centerpieces, and also including corner infield prospects such as Seth Beer, Kevin Cron and/or Andy Young work? Just spitballing here.


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Online  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 11:11 AM Post
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Location: Washburn, WI
Getting really tired of seeing every thread develop into the Brewers owner being cheap, the payroll is for sure being slashed, bargain bin hunting galore, and just dragging this entire place down.

Hopefully the mods can get a hold of this stuff soon because this is getting really annoying. People know the rules here. People know exactly what they are doing when they are making these posts to cause issues here. They shouldn’t even need warnings when they know the rules and derail threads intentionally. This type of stuff should fit into trolling/spamming on here. Get these guys on timeouts. This needs to be cleaned up fast because it is really ruining this place quickly.


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 12:24 PM Post
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tigerbrew said:
The Brewers made a $66 million profit last year, they didn't lost money. The owner has been making profits.


It has been discussed here many, many times over at this point, but one more time for factual accuracy:

That headline is wrong- the Brewers had $66 million in OPERATING INCOME, not profit. If you click the link to the Forbes article it cites, it's clearly listed as such there.

And yes, every thread lately seems to devolve into the same discussion. Let's stay on topic, please.


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 12:42 PM Post
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For those who want to know what "Operating Income" entails. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/op ... income.asp
As far as the topic, I like what DS has done so far. Would have done a couple things different, but no complaints from me as of today!


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 4:03 PM Post
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reillymcshane said:
Okay, let's try this again.

Off Season Moves - VERSION 1

- Trade Josh Hader to the Mets for Jeff McNeil and Dominic Smith a prospect or two.
- Sign Stephan Strasburg - 6 years/$180M
- Sign Jason Castro 2-years/$12M
- Sign Avisaíl García - 2-years/$14M
- Sign Jordan Lyles - 2-years/$10M
- Sign Josh Lindblom (from Korea) - 2 years/$8M
- Don't tender Shaw, Nelson, Saladino. Saves over $10M.

Well, I got Garcia and Lindblom right. Narvaez for Castro is fine.

Instead of Lyles, we signed Anderson. Financially, that was closer to what I had on my list (and one year less).

Strasburg? Whiffed there. And the price and years were way higher. But it was a pipe dream anyhow.

My non-tenders weren't bad. Missed on Guerra and Claudio. Although we re-signed the latter.

I skeptical we deal Hader, but we shall see. I'm guessing we get another starter, but it might be someone like Happ. A lot might depend on where we go with Hader (if anywhere).


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 4:09 PM Post
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reillymcshane said:
reillymcshane said:
Okay, let's try this again.

Off Season Moves - VERSION 1

- Trade Josh Hader to the Mets for Jeff McNeil and Dominic Smith a prospect or two.
- Sign Stephan Strasburg - 6 years/$180M
- Sign Jason Castro 2-years/$12M
- Sign Avisaíl García - 2-years/$14M
- Sign Jordan Lyles - 2-years/$10M
- Sign Josh Lindblom (from Korea) - 2 years/$8M
- Don't tender Shaw, Nelson, Saladino. Saves over $10M.

Well, I got Garcia and Lindblom right. Narvaez for Castro is fine.

Instead of Lyles, we signed Anderson. Financially, that was closer to what I had on my list (and one year less).

Strasburg? Whiffed there. And the price and years were way higher. But it was a pipe dream anyhow.

My non-tenders weren't bad. Missed on Guerra and Claudio. Although we re-signed the latter.

I skeptical we deal Hader, but we shall see. I'm guessing we get another starter, but it might be someone like Happ. A lot might depend on where we go with Hader (if anywhere).


Good call in Lindblom;


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 4:30 PM Post
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Sign Donaldson for around $25 mil/year and a lefty 1B like Thames for around $5 mil and call it good with free agency. Make trades if needed but I would feel pretty good going into next year with that team.


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 4:38 PM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
tigerbrew said:
The Brewers made a $66 million profit last year, they didn't lost money. The owner has been making profits.


It has been discussed here many, many times over at this point, but one more time for factual accuracy:

That headline is wrong- the Brewers had $66 million in OPERATING INCOME, not profit. If you click the link to the Forbes article it cites, it's clearly listed as such there.

And yes, every thread lately seems to devolve into the same discussion. Let's stay on topic, please.


A part of the company expenses is paying dividends and board fees to the owner, so the owner do collect money from his investment asset yearly especially when there is such a high operating income.

Moreover in a short span of 15 years, the Brewers are now worth 5 times what the owner had pay for the team in 2005, this is an excellent investment for the owner. And this asset is still appreciating.

In my previous post, I was just replying to the poster who angrily said to me that the owner is losing money. I will stay on topic now.


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 8:17 PM Post
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I assume that the Garcia signing means that Braun will see time at 1B. Exactly how the playing time gets divided between Braun/Garcia/Yelich/Cain/other 1B remains to be seen, as well as how Gamel/Taylor play into it, but I'm not overly bothered. Plenty of at bats to go around.

So based on that assumption, a LHH 1B and a 3B would seem to be the remaining positional needs. Perhaps the most likely way this gets filled, this being the David Stearns-led Brewers and all, is a fairly minor trade that none of us expected. But that's a bit of a cop-out to predict. So I'll throw out a FA name for 3B: Todd Frazier. Fangraphs crowdsource and Kiley's prediction there are both 1/$7m. He has been an average or better defender, and a slightly above average bat there in recent years. In other words, just a slightly worse Mike Moustakas. The market so far would suggest that 1/$7m is a bit light, but if it's anywhere around there I like it. Combine that with a LHH 1B whether that be a Thames, Moreland, Smoak or someone else, and there's still plenty of room left for pitching signings.

So what do we have then? The direct replacements for Grandal and Moustakas will be an offensive downgrade, though not much of one; Narvaez had a similar wRC+ to Grandal last year, but of course Piña will see more time than he did last year so for the position offense will be down. But the benefit of it is that there will be far fewer PAs given to "black holes" in the lineup. Consider the 2500-3000 PAs (Rough maths) given to hitter below 100 wRC+ last year (At least 1000 to hitters below 65 wRC+); there will be far less of that. It's not very exciting, but even those simple, boring, moves will likely see a better offense than last year. There should be room to aim higher than that though, since the offense wasn't great in 2019.

Which brings us to the trades. More specifically Hader trades. Mets, Dodgers, Yankees have been the teams mentioned. The Mets trade talks have been done to death in the Hader thread, with the debate raging on the value of relievers. I'm in the camp that would take controllable position players all day. McNeil, Davis and Smith are all position players who fill the positional needs, and all have 5 years of team control remaining. Some sort of deal certainly seems workable. Even someone like Jed Lowrie might be interesting; he'd probably primarily be a salary relief inclusion, but that could lead to a better return. And I wouldn't write him off completely. Yankees have Andujar and Urshela, I don't know their intentions but there's a chance they move one of them. I'm a bit skeptic about trading with the Yankees though, I've got a feeling that we'll struggle to get good value out of it, and Andujar certainly has question marks, both in terms of his Jimmy Nelson-esque injury and Ryan Braun-esque defense even though he does look like a very good hitter. For the Dodgers it wouldn't be the straight 3B trade, but if they're willing to actually trade young talent (Which they haven't in the past), there's certainly no shortage of intriguing players.

I think that ultimately Hader doesn't get traded. His contract and his team control essentially creates a situation where his value is higher than the produciton the buying team would get from him. In my head it's clear what I'm trying to say, but I can't articulate it well. It's not just about the Brewers setting the bar high and needing to be blown away by an offer, or different valuations between seller and buyer. But more that you could accurately value what Hader would be worth, and that it would be more than any team would pay for a reliever. I think there's a much higher chance Hader gets traded with 2-3 years remaining. That 4th year adds to the value and the asking price, but the further forward you project/predict, the more uncertain it is. And relievers are volatile to begin with. So I think he remains a Brewer. But I would be working a deal hard if I was Stearns, trying to leverage Hader for MLB talent. To replace Hader I'd perhaps look more at the trade market; find the good relievers on tanking teams with team control shorter than the expected arrival of their competitive window and see if some of them value some Brewers prospects higher than we do internally. Find our version of Will Smith for Susac/Bickford. Again though, I don't think he gets traded.


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 16, 2019, 11:17 PM Post
Posts: 2866
Lathund said:
I assume that the Garcia signing means that Braun will see time at 1B. Exactly how the playing time gets divided between Braun/Garcia/Yelich/Cain/other 1B remains to be seen, as well as how Gamel/Taylor play into it, but I'm not overly bothered. Plenty of at bats to go around.


130 Garcia RF Yelich 32
Cain CF as much as he can, 5th OF the rest (Gamel, Taylor or Broxton)
Yelich 112 in LF, Braun 50
Braun 62 at 1b, Thames like LH 100

Done.

Lathund said:
So based on that assumption, a LHH 1B and a 3B would seem to be the remaining positional needs. Perhaps the most likely way this gets filled, this being the David Stearns-led Brewers and all, is a fairly minor trade that none of us expected. But that's a bit of a cop-out to predict. So I'll throw out a FA name for 3B: Todd Frazier. Fangraphs crowdsource and Kiley's prediction there are both 1/$7m. He has been an average or better defender, and a slightly above average bat there in recent years. In other words, just a slightly worse Mike Moustakas. The market so far would suggest that 1/$7m is a bit light, but if it's anywhere around there I like it. Combine that with a LHH 1B whether that be a Thames, Moreland, Smoak or someone else, and there's still plenty of room left for pitching signings.

So what do we have then? The direct replacements for Grandal and Moustakas will be an offensive downgrade, though not much of one; Narvaez had a similar wRC+ to Grandal last year, but of course Piña will see more time than he did last year so for the position offense will be down. But the benefit of it is that there will be far fewer PAs given to "black holes" in the lineup. Consider the 2500-3000 PAs (Rough maths) given to hitter below 100 wRC+ last year (At least 1000 to hitters below 65 wRC+); there will be far less of that. It's not very exciting, but even those simple, boring, moves will likely see a better offense than last year. There should be room to aim higher than that though, since the offense wasn't great in 2019.


Exactly. A lot of people are all bent out of shape about Grandal and Moose.
Narvaez helped a great deal.
Moose played 40 starts at 2b. We lose 96 starts of him at 3b surely. However, we should gain about 70 from Hiura at 2b. We lose that big bat for about 66 starts.
Gamel started 65 games. Unless Cain is hurt that's not happening with the current roster.
Shaw started 58 games. Can't do worse.
Aguilar started 78 games. Not good, and those are basically Braun now.
Grisham was promising but he also wasn't much better than Gamel.

You put Garcia in place of a number of Gamel and Grisham starts. You put Braun in place of Aguilar. Those are some upgrades. Anyone is an upgrade over the games Shaw played.

The team is not going to feel the loss of Moose/Grandal as much as people think they will. They don't even need a great 3b. The lineup won't be as good as it was when Moose was at 3rd and Hiura was at 2nd but there was a long stretch of the season where that wasn't the case. That stretch had a lot of Aguilar and Shaw.

I joined the party late. I was in after Lindblom and Narvaez. Anderson instead of Gio works for me. I had Garcia as a target.
This offense looks very good with
Thames LH platoon mate for Braun's 1b time.
Flores primary 3b. Why, snap, he doesn't strikeout.
That's around 10 mil.

The last spot I keep toggling on. Holt to back up 3b and defensive sub 1b (and a ton of versatility and OBP) or a RH 1b/PH bat with Urias as the 3b sub.

My question is regarding Gamel Taylor and Broxton. Makes a lot of sense to deal out Gamel, keep Broxton as the CF sub, and stash Taylor as OF 4 when an injury pops up.


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 17, 2019, 3:25 AM Post
Posts: 2866
Also curious.. What is the least MKE could do and be ready for the season.

Woodruff Anderson Houser Lindblom Lauer
Knebel Hader Peralta Suter Wahl Black Claudio
1 pitcher short and there really isn't anyone else who NEEDS to be up. Although Lauer, Wahl, and Claudio could be optioned.
Lose Taylor Williams, Deolis Guerra and Jake Faria. Added J.P. Feyereisen and Eric Yardley.

Narvaez Pina
XXX
Hiura Urias
Arica
XXX XXX
Yelich Cain Braun(1b) Garcia (Gamel/Broxton)
Looks like 3 are missing. I doubt Rodriguez or Mathias make the opening day roster.
Lose no one due to a lack of options.

40 man is at 37. Guerra TWilliams Faria seem like the 1st 3 to go.

I'm thinking at minimum MKE has to add 4 more MLB roster guys. They could go up to 4 arms and 3 bats if they drop those 3 off the 40 man and David Freitas or Rodriguez.


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 17, 2019, 3:45 AM Post
Posts: 754
TJseven7 said:
Lathund said:
I assume that the Garcia signing means that Braun will see time at 1B. Exactly how the playing time gets divided between Braun/Garcia/Yelich/Cain/other 1B remains to be seen, as well as how Gamel/Taylor play into it, but I'm not overly bothered. Plenty of at bats to go around.


130 Garcia RF Yelich 32
Cain CF as much as he can, 5th OF the rest (Gamel, Taylor or Broxton)
Yelich 112 in LF, Braun 50
Braun 62 at 1b, Thames like LH 100

Done.

Lathund said:
So based on that assumption, a LHH 1B and a 3B would seem to be the remaining positional needs. Perhaps the most likely way this gets filled, this being the David Stearns-led Brewers and all, is a fairly minor trade that none of us expected. But that's a bit of a cop-out to predict. So I'll throw out a FA name for 3B: Todd Frazier. Fangraphs crowdsource and Kiley's prediction there are both 1/$7m. He has been an average or better defender, and a slightly above average bat there in recent years. In other words, just a slightly worse Mike Moustakas. The market so far would suggest that 1/$7m is a bit light, but if it's anywhere around there I like it. Combine that with a LHH 1B whether that be a Thames, Moreland, Smoak or someone else, and there's still plenty of room left for pitching signings.

So what do we have then? The direct replacements for Grandal and Moustakas will be an offensive downgrade, though not much of one; Narvaez had a similar wRC+ to Grandal last year, but of course Piña will see more time than he did last year so for the position offense will be down. But the benefit of it is that there will be far fewer PAs given to "black holes" in the lineup. Consider the 2500-3000 PAs (Rough maths) given to hitter below 100 wRC+ last year (At least 1000 to hitters below 65 wRC+); there will be far less of that. It's not very exciting, but even those simple, boring, moves will likely see a better offense than last year. There should be room to aim higher than that though, since the offense wasn't great in 2019.


Exactly. A lot of people are all bent out of shape about Grandal and Moose.
Narvaez helped a great deal.
Moose played 40 starts at 2b. We lose 96 starts of him at 3b surely. However, we should gain about 70 from Hiura at 2b. We lose that big bat for about 66 starts.
Gamel started 65 games. Unless Cain is hurt that's not happening with the current roster.
Shaw started 58 games. Can't do worse.
Aguilar started 78 games. Not good, and those are basically Braun now.
Grisham was promising but he also wasn't much better than Gamel.

You put Garcia in place of a number of Gamel and Grisham starts. You put Braun in place of Aguilar. Those are some upgrades. Anyone is an upgrade over the games Shaw played.

The team is not going to feel the loss of Moose/Grandal as much as people think they will. They don't even need a great 3b. The lineup won't be as good as it was when Moose was at 3rd and Hiura was at 2nd but there was a long stretch of the season where that wasn't the case. That stretch had a lot of Aguilar and Shaw.

I joined the party late. I was in after Lindblom and Narvaez. Anderson instead of Gio works for me. I had Garcia as a target.
This offense looks very good with
Thames LH platoon mate for Braun's 1b time.
Flores primary 3b. Why, snap, he doesn't strikeout.
That's around 10 mil.

The last spot I keep toggling on. Holt to back up 3b and defensive sub 1b (and a ton of versatility and OBP) or a RH 1b/PH bat with Urias as the 3b sub.

My question is regarding Gamel Taylor and Broxton. Makes a lot of sense to deal out Gamel, keep Broxton as the CF sub, and stash Taylor as OF 4 when an injury pops up.


IMO it makes zero sense to deal Gamel. First, he won't bring anything worth getting. Second, he fills in at all three OF positions. Third, he hit lefties (79 PAs) .354/.456 . Last, Broxton is horrible with the bat.
Flores is a good bat to bring in, but can he be an everyday thirdbaseman? His play at 3B hasn't been good in the approx. 75 games he's played there. Urias has been even worse at 3B. He's a SS/2B and that's it. I like Holt a lot as a super sub. He's not a gold glove candidate at 3B, but a good sub at 5 positions.


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 17, 2019, 3:55 AM Post
Posts: 2866
wntrtxn21 said:

IMO it makes zero sense to deal Gamel. First, he won't bring anything worth getting. Second, he fills in at all three OF positions. Third, he hit lefties (79 PAs) .354/.456 . Last, Broxton is horrible with the bat.
Flores is a good bat to bring in, but can he be an everyday thirdbaseman? His play at 3B hasn't been good in the approx. 75 games he's played there. Urias has been even worse at 3B. He's a SS/2B and that's it. I like Holt a lot as a super sub. He's not a gold glove candidate at 3B, but a good sub at 5 positions.


I don't dislike Gamel. I just don't think he's a CF. Can play it and being a good CF is very different. Broxton is a better CF than Gamel and if you don't expect to see any starts at LF/RF it makes sense to have a true CF as the 5th OF. It also makes sense with Taylor being stashed in AAA as the 4th OF in case of injury. As for hitting LHP, our entire OF crushes it.

He won't fetch much obviously but he'd get a lottery ticket and Broxton is cheaper.


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Offline  Re: What is your 2019-2020 offseason plan for the Brewers?
Posted: December 17, 2019, 6:57 AM Post
Posts: 20670
Dellin Betances would be a really nice add to the pen and shouldn't take a long-term deal.


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