LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next  [ 66 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

Catcher Position for 2020

Author Message
Offline  Catcher Position for 2020
#1

Posted: October 16, 2019, 6:27 AM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 6574
Last year we invested some effort in Solving the Catcher Position for 2019, and it turns out 16% of us came up with what in hindsight appears to have been the correct answer. While we will forgo the poll this time around, I figured we should start a thread dedicated to finding the solution for 2020. I know re-signing Grandal has it’s own thread, but if the Brewers are simply outbid for Grandal’s services what other options would you prefer to see explored this offseason?

Here is the list of likely Catcher free agents from MLB.com...

Yasmani Grandal (31 years old, 5.2 WAR) -- $16 million mutual option for 2020 ($2.25 million buyout)
Robinson Chirinos (36, 2.3)
Tyler Flowers (34, 2.1) -- $6 million club option for 2020 ($2 million buyout)
Jason Castro (33, 1.6)
Travis d’Arnaud (31, 1.6)
Alex Avila (33, 1.3)
Russell Martin (37, 1.2)
Brian McCann (36, 1.1)
Austin Romine (31, 0.9)
Martin Maldonado (33, 0.8)
Yan Gomes (32, 0.8) -- $9 million club option for 2020 ($1 million buyout)
Francisco Cervelli (34, 0.1)
Nick Hundley (36, -0.3)
Matt Wieters (34, -0.3)
Jonathan Lucroy (34, -0.5)
Chris Iannetta (37, -0.5)
Welington Castillo (33, -1.0) -- $8 million club option for 2020 ($500,000 buyout)


So that list isn’t all that encouraging. What are some potential trade possibilities? Here is one I came across this morning on the Baseball Trade Values site.

Brewers trade: RHP Corbin Burnes

Mariners trade: Catcher Omar Narváez and LHP Aaron Fletcher

I thought this was interesting from the standpoint Omar Narváez looks intriguing on paper. Admittedly I did not catch many Mariners games this year, and was only slightly familiar with him from his White Sox days. Omar Narváez is under team control for 3 more seasons and is entering his age-28 season in 2020.

So assuming the Brewers are not able to retain or re-sign Yasmani Grandal, what are your preferred moves for the catcher position (if any) heading into 2020?


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#2

Posted: October 16, 2019, 7:38 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 13671
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Omar Navarez would be an ideal platoon guy with Pina.

Navarez vs. RHP: .287/.358/.431/.790 (Career)
Pina vs. LHP: .271/.339/.399/.738 (Career)

Navarez could start about 100-110 games while Pina picks up the rest. Plop that production in the 7-hole and we'll be fine at the catcher position. I'm fully on board with trying to pry him away from the Mariners.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#3

Posted: October 16, 2019, 7:50 AM Post
Posts: 398
So, is everyone in agreement that Jacob Nottingham is at best a 4A player then and will never be a major contributor to the team? I'd like to give the kid a shot and see what he can do.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#4

Posted: October 16, 2019, 7:50 AM Post
Posts: 1171
Location: Ohio
FYI - Brian McCann announced his retirement after the NLCS.

IF the National buyout Yan Gomes, take a hard look. His offense is good every 3 years or so but behind the plate he is very good calling games, framing pitches and controlling the running came. He would be a very good partner for the younger starters..


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#5

Posted: October 16, 2019, 8:47 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 13671
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Jaylyn said:
So, is everyone in agreement that Jacob Nottingham is at best a 4A player then and will never be a major contributor to the team? I'd like to give the kid a shot and see what he can do.


Catchers move a long differently than other positions. He's not a 4A player. He will be 25 next season and needs to do a bit more at the AAA level before cementing him into being on the 25-man roster. He will probably get a shot but I'm just not ready to trust going into next season with him.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#6

Posted: October 16, 2019, 9:08 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 9506
Brew4U said:
Jaylyn said:
So, is everyone in agreement that Jacob Nottingham is at best a 4A player then and will never be a major contributor to the team? I'd like to give the kid a shot and see what he can do.


Catchers move a long differently than other positions. He's not a 4A player. He will be 25 next season and needs to do a bit more at the AAA level before cementing him into being on the 25-man roster. He will probably get a shot but I'm just not ready to trust going into next season with him.


Depending on what the Brewers do to firm up offensive production at other positions, and where they decide to put their limited FA dollars, I think I'd be ok with a Pina/Nottingham time share next year.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#7

Posted: October 16, 2019, 9:19 AM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 7076
If we can't resign Grandal, I'm guessing the club adds someone like Flowers. He's a very good defender, bat is not good, but it's not terrible. He would team up with Pina for a 50/50 platoon, so neither player gets worn down over the season.

It's not a great situation, but it would be fairly inexpensive, it would maintain our good defense behind the plate, and provide okay offensive production. Again, not good offense, just okay.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#8

Posted: October 16, 2019, 9:38 AM Post
Posts: 505
Brew4U said:
Omar Navarez would be an ideal platoon guy with Pina.

Navarez vs. RHP: .287/.358/.431/.790 (Career)
Pina vs. LHP: .271/.339/.399/.738 (Career)

Navarez could start about 100-110 games while Pina picks up the rest. Plop that production in the 7-hole and we'll be fine at the catcher position. I'm fully on board with trying to pry him away from the Mariners.


Huge problem! Navarez is one of, if not the worst defensive catchers (-30) in all baseball. Plus Stearns would have offer big prospects to get him. He is really a DH who catches.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#9

Posted: October 16, 2019, 9:40 AM Post
Posts: 505
MadThinker88 said:
FYI - Brian McCann announced his retirement after the NLCS.

IF the National buyout Yan Gomes, take a hard look. His offense is good every 3 years or so but behind the plate he is very good calling games, framing pitches and controlling the running came. He would be a very good partner for the younger starters..


Gomes isn't much with the bat. I think Pina offers more and at a lot less money.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#10

Posted: October 16, 2019, 9:44 AM Post
Posts: 505
reillymcshane said:
If we can't resign Grandal, I'm guessing the club adds someone like Flowers. He's a very good defender, bat is not good, but it's not terrible. He would team up with Pina for a 50/50 platoon, so neither player gets worn down over the season.

It's not a great situation, but it would be fairly inexpensive, it would maintain our good defense behind the plate, and provide okay offensive production. Again, not good offense, just okay.


Would it be better to see what Nottingham could do as Pina's backup? Flowers is a nice backup, but if Pina is going to be the starter, I believe Nottingham deserves a look as the part-time catcher.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#11

Posted: October 16, 2019, 10:04 AM Post
Posts: 12183
Nottingham pretty much killed his chances having a terrible year offensively. For a catcher to get a chance (especially on a competing team) he needs to excel at hitting or defense. He certainly isn't a defensive wiz (although not terrible by any means) and obviously hitting sub .700 in AAA is not exactly impressive.

I don't get the attraction to him getting a spot. He has been absolutely just terrible offensively in the minors outside of his short stint in Colorado Springs since the 2016 season.

I would much rather spend a few million to get someone that can hit like Nottingham's ceiling instead of rolling the dice on Nottingham who may be an absolute waste of space on the roster.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#12

Posted: October 16, 2019, 10:20 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 13671
Location: Milwaukee, WI
wntrtxn21 said:
Brew4U said:
Omar Navarez would be an ideal platoon guy with Pina.

Navarez vs. RHP: .287/.358/.431/.790 (Career)
Pina vs. LHP: .271/.339/.399/.738 (Career)

Navarez could start about 100-110 games while Pina picks up the rest. Plop that production in the 7-hole and we'll be fine at the catcher position. I'm fully on board with trying to pry him away from the Mariners.


Huge problem! Navarez is one of, if not the worst defensive catchers (-30) in all baseball. Plus Stearns would have offer big prospects to get him. He is really a DH who catches.


Good catch. I've changed my mind. He's just too crappy defensively to justify him being the main catcher.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#13

Posted: October 16, 2019, 11:15 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 10657
That is a lot of garbage.

That list PROVES the importance of a great hitting catcher in your line-up.

We need to spend the $ necessary in re-signing Grandal, the hole he will create by not signing him is just so significant.

Obviously I'd hate to lock up a huge 4 or 5 year deal, and hopefully the rest of the league feels the same way.

I'd even be willing to go 2 years at 20 million per season, or 3 at 17-18 million per season.

I just can't imagine our line-up without him.

If we go with Arcia at SS, we will have an absolute black hole in out line-up 7-9. If we keep Shaw and let Moose go, and what can happen does, we are screwed 6-9.

Not a winning formula.

We need to keep Grandal if at all possible imo.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#14

Posted: October 16, 2019, 11:34 AM Post
Posts: 731
turborickey said:
That is a lot of garbage.

That list PROVES the importance of a great hitting catcher in your line-up.

We need to spend the $ necessary in re-signing Grandal, the hole he will create by not signing him is just so significant.

Obviously I'd hate to lock up a huge 4 or 5 year deal, and hopefully the rest of the league feels the same way.

I'd even be willing to go 2 years at 20 million per season, or 3 at 17-18 million per season.

I just can't imagine our line-up without him.

If we go with Arcia at SS, we will have an absolute black hole in out line-up 7-9. If we keep Shaw and let Moose go, and what can happen does, we are screwed 6-9.

Not a winning formula.

We need to keep Grandal if at all possible imo.



Ya this is basically where I'm at with the situation. Re-signing Grandal is the most important thing for the Brewers this off season.

Chirinos and d'arnaud are really the only guys on that list who are primary catchers. The rest are time share types. If they go with a time share type they need a big upgrade at SS and need to keep Moustakas.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#15

Posted: October 16, 2019, 2:39 PM Post
Posts: 12137
I could live with Narvaez. Even with his defensive shortcomings, B-R had him with a 2.1 overall WAR, and last year was the only year they rated his defense with a negative WAR. Have to like that Narvaez has improved with the bat every year. Another option is Castro, who posted an .851 OPS vs. RHP last year, though he slumped noticeably in the 2nd half.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#16

Posted: October 17, 2019, 11:32 PM Post
Posts: 398
Grandal is going to get a big payday and I'm a little leery of giving a 31 year old catcher a four or five year contract. Pina is the primary, Nottingham backing up with a couple of starts each week.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#17

Posted: October 18, 2019, 10:16 AM Post
Posts: 587
Jaylyn said:
Grandal is going to get a big payday and I'm a little leery of giving a 31 year old catcher a four or five year contract. Pina is the primary, Nottingham backing up with a couple of starts each week.


Yeah, I'm starting to think as well that there is going to be very little chance of us bringing back Grandal. I think I'd only be interested in a 3 year offer to him, and something tells me that one of the bigger market teams will give him a 4 year deal with a higher AAV than what we could offer. If that's the case, then we'll be stuck looking for another option through either F/A or a trade. I know the F/A catching market is very weak this winter, but outside of a trade with the Dodgers - are there any other teams that have multiple younger C's that we might be able to partner up with on a trade? Anyone worth targeting?


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#18

Posted: October 18, 2019, 10:57 AM Post
Posts: 12183
Lorenzo Cain and Yasmani Grandal on the same roster. I would be really surprised if Stearns starts piling a bunch of expensive aging payers on this team...I feel like he is smarter than that. Signing a 33 year old Cain to a 5 year deal was asking for some awful contract years, signing Grandal to a 3+ year deal is possibly asking for a similar fate. That is just a ton of risk that puts our payroll in a bind.

I just have a hard time seeing us spend on Grandal unless it is a 1-2 year deal.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#19

Posted: October 18, 2019, 11:33 AM Post
Posts: 2995
Definitely have not given up on Nottingham, a lot has Bern made of Yasmani being 31 next year but Pina will be 33 so would be nice to have a younger catcher to take over the reserve role in 2021.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#20

Posted: October 18, 2019, 2:34 PM Post
Posts: 19211
Outlander said:
Definitely have not given up on Nottingham


I'm pretty close. He's still got age on his side, and he's made some defensive progress.

But for a guy who was considered a hitting catcher, not a defensive catcher, he hasn't really moved forward offensively at all since we acquired him.

It's not a great sign that he couldn't hit in a league where everyone hits. He better turn out to be a pretty good defensive catcher, because his bat will never play at 1st.

I think it's likelier than not at this point that he's another Andrew Susac.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next  [ 66 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: endaround and 11 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test