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Catcher Position for 2020

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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 8:00 AM Post
Posts: 593
I'd like him more at 1B than at C. he's awful at catching


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 8:23 AM Post
Posts: 534
If Seattle does the won’t-trade-within-division thing (3 AL West teams could use him) the Brewers would maybe be the most logical fit and there would be be a huge market. The Rays May be too cheap to want him through arbitration. Narvaez would make a good get to replace Grandal’s bar somewhat, and is the opposite of Pina so a perfect complement.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 8:51 AM Post
Posts: 1240
Location: Ohio
Catchers that are good both offensively AND defensively are rare. On top of that, they cost a ton to hold onto or acquire in a deal. Worse, catchers get banged up so much that a season with 100 starts is considered good. Any other non-pitcher position & only 100 starts is looked upon with questions. So teams tend to make a choice - do they prefer a catcher that is offense first or one that is defense first.

I believe the Brewers would be smart to determine the market inefficiency - are more baseball teams leaning offense 1st or defense 1st and go after the other area. The Brewers should be able to get a better deal (due to limited market/ demand).


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 9:25 AM Post
Posts: 41
Location: West Bend
I read a Seattle poster a few weeks ago mentioned sending Omar and Seager to us and sea throwing in money for seager. Kyle has really fallen off and owed a lot for 3 more years. I see his line of thinking trying to match our needs positionaly, but I don’t think I’d want 3 yrs of him.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 12:15 PM Post
Posts: 784
Based on the publicly available defensive catcher statistics I don't think Narvaez would be my preference as the primary catcher for the Brewers next season. The bat is certainly attractive though.

I'm just not sure with the Brewers' overall pitching strategy you can afford to have a poor pitch framer being the main catcher.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 12:19 PM Post
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Posts: 2686
umpref said:
I read a Seattle poster a few weeks ago mentioned sending Omar and Seager to us and sea throwing in money for seager. Kyle has really fallen off and owed a lot for 3 more years. I see his line of thinking trying to match our needs positionaly, but I don’t think I’d want 3 yrs of him.


FWIW, the 2022 year is a club option. Cot's has it at $15 and can go to $20 with performance-based incentives...buyout would be $0-$3m and I'm thinking it may be closer to $0 given his injuries in recent years.

I'd still want some cash on the 2 years if we really went that route, though.

If it's essentially a cash dump on Seager, that's an interesting idea, although I feel like the Mariners may be at a place where they don't want to do such things. They will run about a $100 million payroll this year but then drop way down as of next year.

Say it was a cash dump of Seager/Narvaez and say the Mariners send $5m/each for the next 2 seasons. Seager vs. Mous is probably a wash. So you've got probably 5-5 WAR in Seager/Narvaez for $18-20 million. Instead, you'd have had 7 WAR out of Yas/Mous for $26-30 million. But you'd get basically both Narvaez/Seager for 2-3 years given arby for Narvaez and the option for Seager. For Yas you'd have to have gone 4 and Moustakas might be 3-4.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 1:13 PM Post
Posts: 53
Navarez & Seager for Cain works in the Trade Value simulator

That gets us out of Cain's deal 1 year earlier (2022 TO on Seager), gives us a RH 3b/1b option, and an great hitting C.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 1:22 PM Post
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Posts: 2686
Vollbc74 said:
Navarez & Seager for Cain works in the Trade Value simulator

That gets us out of Cain's deal 1 year earlier (2022 TO on Seager), gives us a RH 3b/1b option, and an great hitting C.


What are you going to do with Cain's saved money?

Not only does Seattle have zero reason to send equal cash in and cash out for a guy that won't help them in the future, you're basically chopping 1-5 WAR off of the Brewers just so you can be a frugal fan and say, "well, at least we don't have that bad contract!"

Unless you're planning on spending the cash on another contract of Cain's ilk that will turn into 2020 Cain contract situation anyways. Then...fine, I guess.

But again, most importantly here...I cannot see any reason for Seattle to do this. They get a risky Cain contract sitting on their books while they tank and then have an extra year of burden at the end. Why?


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 1:31 PM Post
Posts: 557
bill hAll Star said:
umpref said:
I read a Seattle poster a few weeks ago mentioned sending Omar and Seager to us and sea throwing in money for seager. Kyle has really fallen off and owed a lot for 3 more years. I see his line of thinking trying to match our needs positionaly, but I don’t think I’d want 3 yrs of him.


FWIW, the 2022 year is a club option. Cot's has it at $15 and can go to $20 with performance-based incentives...buyout would be $0-$3m and I'm thinking it may be closer to $0 given his injuries in recent years.

I'd still want some cash on the 2 years if we really went that route, though.

If it's essentially a cash dump on Seager, that's an interesting idea, although I feel like the Mariners may be at a place where they don't want to do such things. They will run about a $100 million payroll this year but then drop way down as of next year.

Say it was a cash dump of Seager/Narvaez and say the Mariners send $5m/each for the next 2 seasons. Seager vs. Mous is probably a wash. So you've got probably 5-5 WAR in Seager/Narvaez for $18-20 million. Instead, you'd have had 7 WAR out of Yas/Mous for $26-30 million. But you'd get basically both Narvaez/Seager for 2-3 years given arby for Narvaez and the option for Seager. For Yas you'd have to have gone 4 and Moustakas might be 3-4.


2022 becomes a player option if he is traded


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 1:34 PM Post
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Posts: 5121
Omar for Grisham / Henry? I think it is going to take a decent package to get him, which may not be worth it for a catcher that struggles defensively.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 2:37 PM Post
Posts: 601
bill hAll Star said:
umpref said:
I read a Seattle poster a few weeks ago mentioned sending Omar and Seager to us and sea throwing in money for seager. Kyle has really fallen off and owed a lot for 3 more years. I see his line of thinking trying to match our needs positionaly, but I don’t think I’d want 3 yrs of him.


FWIW, the 2022 year is a club option. Cot's has it at $15 and can go to $20 with performance-based incentives...buyout would be $0-$3m and I'm thinking it may be closer to $0 given his injuries in recent years.

I'd still want some cash on the 2 years if we really went that route, though.

If it's essentially a cash dump on Seager, that's an interesting idea, although I feel like the Mariners may be at a place where they don't want to do such things. They will run about a $100 million payroll this year but then drop way down as of next year.

Say it was a cash dump of Seager/Narvaez and say the Mariners send $5m/each for the next 2 seasons. Seager vs. Mous is probably a wash. So you've got probably 5-5 WAR in Seager/Narvaez for $18-20 million. Instead, you'd have had 7 WAR out of Yas/Mous for $26-30 million. But you'd get basically both Narvaez/Seager for 2-3 years given arby for Narvaez and the option for Seager. For Yas you'd have to have gone 4 and Moustakas might be 3-4.


Seager is owed $20.5M (AAV) per year for the next two years. $19.5M-18.5M and the third year is a $15M team option with a $3M buyout. The M's aren't going to send $20M cash plus Narvaez and Seager for Cain.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 2:45 PM Post
Posts: 921
Location: Washburn, WI
On the trade simulator site, Narvaez for Corey Ray is just about even. His surplus value is listed as only 5.1. For 3 years of a very good hitting catcher, I would do that. His bat is good enough to see some time at first as well to keep him in the lineup.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 5:57 PM Post
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Posts: 3499
Why would anyone want a catcher who is terrible defensively and whose own team is actively trying to shop him with three years of control left?

I normally don't mind trading defense for offense, but not at catcher on a team with a young, questionable pitching staff.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 9:19 PM Post
Posts: 32
A lot of people talk about Omar's defense. Yes it's bad, but we also have pina to back him up. Omar is a perfect fit imo.

- He's left handed and hit 22 hr's with seatle being his home ballpark. He could hit more at Miller Park

- He'd be a good platoon for pina. Hit very well vs righties, but lefties he struggled pretty badly

- He's projected to earn a little over 2 mil next year. Leaves lots of money to fix other holes on the team.

- he's only 27 and has 3 years of control

I think this could get done without giving up a ton. I think a deal with Corey Ray and Peyton Henry is something the Mariners would strongly consider and something I would do. I'm not worried about the defense with Pina being our backup.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 25, 2019, 9:52 PM Post
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Posts: 7155
wntrtxn21 said:
bill hAll Star said:
umpref said:
I read a Seattle poster a few weeks ago mentioned sending Omar and Seager to us and sea throwing in money for seager. Kyle has really fallen off and owed a lot for 3 more years. I see his line of thinking trying to match our needs positionaly, but I don’t think I’d want 3 yrs of him.


FWIW, the 2022 year is a club option. Cot's has it at $15 and can go to $20 with performance-based incentives...buyout would be $0-$3m and I'm thinking it may be closer to $0 given his injuries in recent years.

I'd still want some cash on the 2 years if we really went that route, though.

If it's essentially a cash dump on Seager, that's an interesting idea, although I feel like the Mariners may be at a place where they don't want to do such things. They will run about a $100 million payroll this year but then drop way down as of next year.

Say it was a cash dump of Seager/Narvaez and say the Mariners send $5m/each for the next 2 seasons. Seager vs. Mous is probably a wash. So you've got probably 5-5 WAR in Seager/Narvaez for $18-20 million. Instead, you'd have had 7 WAR out of Yas/Mous for $26-30 million. But you'd get basically both Narvaez/Seager for 2-3 years given arby for Narvaez and the option for Seager. For Yas you'd have to have gone 4 and Moustakas might be 3-4.


Seager is owed $20.5M (AAV) per year for the next two years. $19.5M-18.5M and the third year is a $15M team option with a $3M buyout. The M's aren't going to send $20M cash plus Narvaez and Seager for Cain.

One note about Seager. His option is currently a team option. But if he is traded, it becomes a player option.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 26, 2019, 2:58 AM Post
Posts: 186
Sign Castro to be the LHB in a platoon with Pina and bring Freitas up as the 3rd C/26th man.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 26, 2019, 6:27 AM Post
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Posts: 9990
what will be the cost to trade for him is giving Ray up for him o much?


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 26, 2019, 7:18 AM Post
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Posts: 9991
brewmann04 said:
what will be the cost to trade for him is giving Ray up for him o much?


Who knows what the heck DiPoto is going to look for in a deal? He's a total enigma with the deals he makes.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 26, 2019, 7:44 AM Post
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Posts: 548
Location: Chicago
First of all, Seattle is rebuilding. For those who may have forgotten this means they are looking to add long term talent to their organization. They’re not going to trade one of the few chips they have, a catcher who can hit, without getting long term pieces in return. So regardless if a ‘trade evaluater’ website says it’s even, Seattle has zero use for Lorenzo Cain. (This goes without mentioning the GM who signed Cain less than two calendar years ago likely has a different perspective on him than many of the posters here).

Also, Seager was a 2.5 WAR player last year. I’m sure Seattle would move him if they were offered the right combination of young talent. They’re not going to simply give him away, let alone pay cash for him to play for somebody else.

I presume Jerry DiPoto wants to keep his job. The scenario of actually pulling the trigger on deals where he trades his most valuable major league pieces and throws in cash to get another big contract and some dog rockets from Milwaukee’s farm system doesn’t make his organization better in the long run nor the short run.


Last edited by Jopal78! on November 26, 2019, 10:30 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
Posted: November 26, 2019, 7:51 AM Post
Posts: 601
beekay414 said:
Sign Castro to be the LHB in a platoon with Pina and bring Freitas up as the 3rd C/26th man.


You saw what the Brewers think of Freitas when Pina was hurt last year. He caught exactly zero innings and was used sparingly as an early PH. He's a career AAA catcher. The Brewers won't waste a spot on him.


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