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Catcher Position for 2020

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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#21

Posted: October 23, 2019, 7:26 AM Post
Posts: 12131
Outlander said:
Definitely have not given up on Nottingham, a lot has Bern made of Yasmani being 31 next year but Pina will be 33 so would be nice to have a younger catcher to take over the reserve role in 2021.


With a 26 man roster and two catchers over 30, one of whom spends time at 1B, it makes sense to go with 3 catchers. Speaking of which, why no mention of Steven Vogt returning? He had a really nice year for the Giants and his power plays better in Miller Park. Yes he's 35, but this team got pretty far with 38 year old Eric Kratz in 2018.

I see no issue with older catchers in 2020. Feliciano and Henry are both prospects who are getting close. Nottingham's future looks more like as a backup.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#22

Posted: October 23, 2019, 10:09 AM Post
Posts: 12150
There is 100% without a doubt no way the Brewers put 3 catchers on the roster. That is before even considering Grandal is not apart of this team.

I don't think it makes any sense to be honest. Not even remotely. Why would we carry a terrible bat on the bench in the odd case all our catchers get knocked out of the game? Anyone want to tell me the last time a 3rd catcher was used in a game outside of September for the Brewers? How about for any team? Is that worth the daily negative value they bring scuffing up the bench with their cleats? The seeds and Gatorade they consume during a game would likely have more value than they ever do in a game over who could be on the roster instead. No, that isn't in blue, it is probably ture.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#23

Posted: October 23, 2019, 11:05 AM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
I've actually thought of Vogt for the other side of the platoon if we lose Grandal. The R/L combo makes sense. Sure seems they love their vets and it was known Vogt was well liked in the clubhouse. How bad was Vogt on D this year? I see a 17% CS%, league avg is 26%. Get this, he started 5 games in LF this year.

Agree that they won't have 3 Cs on the roster. No matter how dominant Freitas is


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#24

Posted: October 23, 2019, 12:28 PM Post
Posts: 499
tmwiese55 said:
I've actually thought of Vogt for the other side of the platoon if we lose Grandal. The R/L combo makes sense. Sure seems they love their vets and it was known Vogt was well liked in the clubhouse. How bad was Vogt on D this year? I see a 17% CS%, league avg is 26%. Get this, he started 5 games in LF this year.

Agree that they won't have 3 Cs on the roster. No matter how dominant Freitas is


The thing that scares me about Vogt is his -27, -13 , -10 defense the last 3 years he played. Weakest arm in all MLB. Not many teams run much now days, but still a big weakness behind the plate. Freitas isn't on the radar for the Crew next year except as an AAA catcher again. He is a prime candidate to be cut from the 40-man roster to make room for the rule 5 guys they are going to keep.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#25

Posted: October 23, 2019, 8:59 PM Post
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wntrtxn21 said:
reillymcshane said:
If we can't resign Grandal, I'm guessing the club adds someone like Flowers. He's a very good defender, bat is not good, but it's not terrible. He would team up with Pina for a 50/50 platoon, so neither player gets worn down over the season.

It's not a great situation, but it would be fairly inexpensive, it would maintain our good defense behind the plate, and provide okay offensive production. Again, not good offense, just okay.


Would it be better to see what Nottingham could do as Pina's backup? Flowers is a nice backup, but if Pina is going to be the starter, I believe Nottingham deserves a look as the part-time catcher.


My guess is no. The Brewers are a playoff team. They will value the predictability of a player like Flowers. Nottingham just hasn't been the good. It doesn't mean he won't force the issue, but until he does, the club isn't going to go with a guy like him for 80 games. There's just way too much risk in that.

Jacob needs to go to AAA and demonstrate he's really ready to take the next step. And let's face it, the opportunity will likely arise at some point as injuries occur.

You might elect to run out Nottingham if the club was staring at a 65 win season - but that's not the case. The team will go with the veteran most of the time. Even if the veteran is mediocre.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#26

Posted: October 24, 2019, 7:24 AM Post
Posts: 3741
I would go with Pina, honestly. And spend $$ and trades towards pitching

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#27

Posted: October 24, 2019, 10:23 AM Post
Posts: 2040
3and2Fastball said:
I would go with Pina, honestly. And spend $$ and trades towards pitching


It comes down to me that I would rather rely on Pina at catcher next year versus Shaw at 3B next year (when compared to those positional MLB averages) - with the added benefit of saving money on costs (Shaw arby vs Pina).

So Grandal money goes toward Moose inflation and a SP. But can't assume Moose, so have to keep Grandal option open.

Basically have to count on full-year Hiura, a luckier Cain, a better Arcia and hope Braun and Thames can have another good year to keep offense decent.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#28

Posted: October 24, 2019, 11:35 AM Post
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3and2Fastball said:
I would go with Pina, honestly. And spend $$ and trades towards pitching


We tried that before and he wore down at the end of the season.

With the small amount he played last year, and 2 years older, I doubt his stamina will be better, probably worse.

If we keep Pina as the every day starter, we would have to pair him up with a guy that we can stomach starting 3 games a week. Might be tough to do seeing the FA list at catcher.

We need to suck it up, pay Grandal a realistic salary, and mark him in for next season.

imo

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#29

Posted: October 24, 2019, 12:33 PM Post
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Pina can catch 90-100 games. Can they find someone decent enough to catch the other 60-70? That is the key to this equation.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#30

Posted: October 24, 2019, 1:01 PM Post
Posts: 19183
What we really need is the equivalent of another Manny Pina. An equally talented offensive and defensive catcher and a 50/50 split of duties would be perfect.

Don't see us being able to bring Grandal back. I think it would probably take about 3/60 to keep him from testing the market.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#31

Posted: October 24, 2019, 2:16 PM Post
Posts: 3741
It's hard to imagine them signing Grandal unless they somehow get rid of Cain's contract... If they do sign Grandal w/o greatly increasing the budget there won't be much improvement with the pitching staff other than hoping the pitchers already on the roster greatly improve

Tough spot to be in. All of these decisions would be easier if they could increase the payroll budget during Yelich's prime window...

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#32

Posted: October 24, 2019, 7:22 PM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
Taking into account what has happened in free agency the last two off-season, I'd guess Grandal's offers top out in the 3 year, 48 million area and I think Milwaukee should be a player at that price-tag. I'd go after him really hard. I'm usually pretty conservative with off-season payroll estimates but would expect the Brewers would have about 30 million to spend if Anderson and Thames' options are picked up and Shaw and Nelson are not offered arbitration (that's what I'm guessing will happen). Throwing 16 million at Grandal eats up more than 1/2 the money but his bat is worth it.

Alex Avila would be my backup plan. Would definitely prefer Grandal but still would feel pretty comfortable with a Pina/Avila combination behind the plate.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#33

Posted: October 24, 2019, 7:57 PM Post
Posts: 4645
Are there any options in Nippon Professional Baseball or KBO that the Crew could look at?


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#34

Posted: October 24, 2019, 8:11 PM Post
Posts: 12150
clancyphile said:
Are there any options in Nippon Professional Baseball or KBO that the Crew could look at?


Ha, oddly I was going to ask you in the SS thread why you didn’t mention the catcher in the KBO. The league OPS leader is a catcher.

He is signed to a 4 year deal though.


Last edited by MrTPlush on October 24, 2019, 8:15 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#35

Posted: October 24, 2019, 8:13 PM Post
Posts: 4645
MrTPlush said:
clancyphile said:
Are there any options in Nippon Professional Baseball or KBO that the Crew could look at?


Ha, oddly I was going to ask you in the SS thread why you didn’t mention the catcher in the KBO. The league OPS leader is a catcher.


Eui-ji Yang? Big bat, but he's 32.

Might be worth pursuing, but to pry him from KBO at this point would take a Thames deal at least.

EDIT: One big positive, the last two years, he's walked more than he's struck out.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#36

Posted: October 24, 2019, 8:16 PM Post
Posts: 499
JosephC said:
Taking into account what has happened in free agency the last two off-season, I'd guess Grandal's offers top out in the 3 year, 48 million area and I think Milwaukee should be a player at that price-tag. I'd go after him really hard. I'm usually pretty conservative with off-season payroll estimates but would expect the Brewers would have about 30 million to spend if Anderson and Thames' options are picked up and Shaw and Nelson are not offered arbitration (that's what I'm guessing will happen). Throwing 16 million at Grandal eats up more than 1/2 the money but his bat is worth it.

Alex Avila would be my backup plan. Would definitely prefer Grandal but still would feel pretty comfortable with a Pina/Avila combination behind the plate.


Catcher to go along with Pina is the problem if Grandal leaves. I just don't see them interested in Avila if he gets anywhere close to the $4.5M he is now making. Avila doesn't hit much, but he walks a lot. He also K's at a 33% rate and is a very avg. defensive catcher. The last thing CC needs is another strikeout artist in the lineup. I think there is a better chance of Stearns keeping Nelson at around $3.7M than Anderson at $8.5M. I too think Shaw is gone and they are going to re-sign Moose (3 for $33M?).


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#37

Posted: October 25, 2019, 6:56 AM Post
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One team that has four young catchers that all have major league experience is the Padres. Each of them has struggled to some extent with at least part of their game in the majors, but all of them have shown some offensive prowess in the minors...

Francisco Mejia: Probably the Padres starter in 2020. He started the majority of the games from late June through the end of the season.

Austin Hedges: Probably the Padres backup in 2020 due to his outstanding defense.

Austin Allen: Entering age 26 season next year. Struggled in 71 MLB plate appearances last year, but has a career .844 OPS in the minors.

Luis Torrens: Played for the Padres as a 21 year old in 2017 (due to being a Rule 5 acquisition), is now entering age 24 season likely without a spot on the major league roster. Had a good offensive season at Double-A last year.


Of the list, Austin Allen and Luis Torrens are probably the only two that are actually attainable. Either would likely start the season in Triple-A, but could be capable of serving in a backup role to Piña by the end of 2020 if the Brewers go that route. Torrens would probably be my preferred target of the two, and wouldn’t likely cost much in trade capital.

Like others, I am hoping the Brewers resign Grandal above all else. If not, I would like the Brewers to take a chance at finding a young catcher they believe can develop into a solid starter over the next couple of years. I personally don’t think the Brewers currently have a future major league regular at catcher in their upper minors.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#38

Posted: October 25, 2019, 8:48 AM Post
Posts: 4645
Eye Black said:
One team that has four young catchers that all have major league experience is the Padres. Each of them has struggled to some extent with at least part of their game in the majors, but all of them have shown some offensive prowess in the minors...

Francisco Mejia: Probably the Padres starter in 2020. He started the majority of the games from late June through the end of the season.

Austin Hedges: Probably the Padres backup in 2020 due to his outstanding defense.

Austin Allen: Entering age 26 season next year. Struggled in 71 MLB plate appearances last year, but has a career .844 OPS in the minors.

Luis Torrens: Played for the Padres as a 21 year old in 2017 (due to being a Rule 5 acquisition), is now entering age 24 season likely without a spot on the major league roster. Had a good offensive season at Double-A last year.


Of the list, Austin Allen and Luis Torrens are probably the only two that are actually attainable. Either would likely start the season in Triple-A, but could be capable of serving in a backup role to Piña by the end of 2020 if the Brewers go that route. Torrens would probably be my preferred target of the two, and wouldn’t likely cost much in trade capital.

Like others, I am hoping the Brewers resign Grandal above all else. If not, I would like the Brewers to take a chance at finding a young catcher they believe can develop into a solid starter over the next couple of years. I personally don’t think the Brewers currently have a future major league regular at catcher in their upper minors.


Torrens might be the most attainable. Still has an option, and could start out at AAA. Get him (price might be steep prospects-wise), sign Eui-ji Yang from KBO, and it's not Grandal, but it might be enough to avoid a black hole.


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Online  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#39

Posted: October 25, 2019, 9:41 AM Post
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clancyphile said:
Torrens might be the most attainable. Still has an option, and could start out at AAA. Get him (price might be steep prospects-wise), sign Eui-ji Yang from KBO, and it's not Grandal, but it might be enough to avoid a black hole.


Torrens is the type of guy you go after in 2022 after Yelich and maybe Hader are heading out the door and you're looking at a step back, not the type of guy you rely on as a potential contender in 2020.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#40

Posted: October 26, 2019, 6:01 AM Post
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Austin Allen would be a fun get.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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