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Catcher Position for 2020

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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#61

Posted: November 05, 2019, 8:22 PM Post
Posts: 5058
PeaveyFury said:
clancyphile said:
Up it to 5/$90M, and you might pull it off - albeit if you can get Grandal to defer the payments.

$10 million bonus
$16 million/year for 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024.


Are we bidding against ouselves here?


No, I thought Oxy's deal was too low, and had too few years.

Grandal wants the payday. He's earned it. I think his offensive profile - including superb OBP skills (evidenced over the last six years) - is going to stay solid. The big question is managing wear and tear.

Now, I think the Crew can do the wear and tear management with an eventual move of Grandal to first base. Grandal serves as primary catcher (100 games there 40-50 at 1B, Pina getting the other 62) for 2020-2022, eventually yielding to the Feliciano/Henry duo, and playing more and more 1B. I am banking that I can defer some of the money on the deal, and that Grandal will be amenable to an eventual move to first. But an AAV of $15M isn't going to bring Yaz back.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#62

Posted: November 05, 2019, 10:37 PM Post
Posts: 1170
Location: Washburn, WI
I’ll be shocked if Grandal gets a 4 year deal from anyone right now, let alone a 5 year deal. Plus I’m really not a fan of deferring money. Don’t really like the thought of paying $5-$10 million every single year to different guys that aren’t even playing for you. Maybe I’m just petty, but I don’t think it’s wise to do it. We already will be paying Cain and Braun $3 million total from 2023-2027. Doesn’t seem like much, but once you start adding more deferred money such as the $2 million more from the suggested Grandal signing that would be paid out in the similar window, now it’s up to $5 million. Maybe we will be rebuilding by then and it won’t make much of a difference, but if we hit on some guys in the drafts, develop a little pitching, and possibly make a timely trade or two of some big name guys after the 2020 or 2021 season, it would be nice to not be paying $10 million to guys not playing for us when we are trying to be competitive.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#63

Posted: November 06, 2019, 10:28 AM Post
Posts: 5058
RollieTime said:
I’ll be shocked if Grandal gets a 4 year deal from anyone right now, let alone a 5 year deal. Plus I’m really not a fan of deferring money. Don’t really like the thought of paying $5-$10 million every single year to different guys that aren’t even playing for you. Maybe I’m just petty, but I don’t think it’s wise to do it. We already will be paying Cain and Braun $3 million total from 2023-2027. Doesn’t seem like much, but once you start adding more deferred money such as the $2 million more from the suggested Grandal signing that would be paid out in the similar window, now it’s up to $5 million. Maybe we will be rebuilding by then and it won’t make much of a difference, but if we hit on some guys in the drafts, develop a little pitching, and possibly make a timely trade or two of some big name guys after the 2020 or 2021 season, it would be nice to not be paying $10 million to guys not playing for us when we are trying to be competitive.


At some point, the Brewers will see the window close, and they will need to re-tool/re-build.

When will that be? Probably in the 2024-2028 timeframe, give or take a few seasons either way. That would be marked by a reduced payroll, so I don't see deferred compensation as being a huge problem. There would be few big-money players, and plenty of minor-league prospects who would, when they hit the big leagues, earn the minimum.

Plus, with the way TV revenue and other things are shifting, the Crew could be paying $10 million and it would not be a huge issue.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#64

Posted: November 10, 2019, 10:37 PM Post
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From the MLBTR site the other day, Blue Jays’ Catchers Drawing Trade Interest


Pitching is the Blue Jays’ top priority this winter, and Toronto has already made one notable move on that front with its acquisition of Chase Anderson from the Brewers. It remains to be seen whether the Jays will look to free agency or further trades to upgrade its staff, though in regards to the latter option, Sportsnet.ca’s Shi Davidi reports that Toronto’s “catchers have also been drawing interest from other clubs” in preliminary trade discussions.

Danny Jansen handled the bulk of the work behind the plate for the Jays last season, hitting only .207/.279/.360 over 384 plate appearances but displaying some excellent defensive prowess in his first full MLB campaign. Both StatCorner and Baseball Prospectus cited Jansen as one of the league’s best pitch-framers, with BP also highly praising Jansen’s blocking skills. The 24-year-old held his own at throwing out baserunners, stopped 19 of 61 stolen base attempts.

It was quite a performance for a player who was more touted for his offensive skill coming up through the farm system, and if Jansen can improve to even average production with the bat, he’ll be a very valuable catcher going forward. This could also make him an interesting trade chip, though since Jansen is controlled through the 2024 season, the Jays would certainly want a solid return for his services. It could ultimately make for a tough negotiation since a rival team could rightly argue that Jansen hasn’t yet shown much hitting skill at the big league level.

Ultimately, there’s probably more evidence that the Jays still see Jansen less as a trade chip and more as their catcher of the future, so that could make Reese McGuire more expendable. An oblique injury sent Luke Maile to the injured list in July and limited him to just three games for the remainder of the season, as McGuire went on a hot streak and more or less entered into a timeshare with Jansen down the stretch.

Selected 14th overall by the Pirates in the 2013 draft, McGuire was rather surprisingly traded to Toronto in a 2016 deadline deal, packaged with fellow prospect Harold Ramirez and veteran lefty Francisco Liriano for right-hander Drew Hutchison. The trade was mostly about unloading Liriano’s $18MM in remaining salary for the Bucs, leaving the Jays to potentially reap the benefits from a catcher who has hit very well (.297/.343/.539 with seven homers in 138 PA) in his brief Major League career. McGuire also has above-average blocking and framing grades — something of the opposite of Jansen, McGuire was considered more of a glove-first catcher during his time in the minors.

This leaves Luke Maile looking like a potential non-tender candidate unless the Jays can find a trade partner. The veteran is projected to earn only $800K in arbitration this winter, though may no longer have a spot on Toronto’s roster if Jansen and McGuire are the new regular duo. Maile turns 29 in February, and hit a respectable .248/.333/.366 over 231 PA in 2018, though that solid season was sandwiched between two very poor years at the plate in 2017 and 2019.

The Blue Jays could also look to move younger catchers from within their farm system. Gabriel Moreno (#8), Alejandro Kirk (#12), and Riley Adams (#27) are all ranked within MLB Pipeline’s list of the top 30 Jays prospects. Adams is the most developed, with 81 games at Double-A last season, while Kirk reached the advanced A-ball level and Moreno spent all of 2019 at Single-A Lansing.


I doubt the Blue Jays would be open to actually trading Danny Jansen, but Reese McGuire, entering his age-25 season, may be a more realistic trade target. If they were looking to take a shot on someone who is still probably a year away, Riley Adams seems sort of interesting.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#65

Posted: November 11, 2019, 10:11 AM Post
Posts: 568
Reese McGuire is the exact player you try to acquire if you are the Brewers. Under team control until 2025.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#66

Posted: November 11, 2019, 10:17 AM Post
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mlloyd10 said:
Reese McGuire is the exact player you try to acquire if you are the Brewers. Under team control until 2025.


I'm personally not biting on his likely lucky or fluky MLB stats. He has talent/potential, but he has not really hit well at all in the minors.

He's projected for a .687 OPS next year.

Maybe he's got potential but the Jays would still be smart to make someone pay for that potential.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#67

Posted: November 21, 2019, 11:48 AM Post
Posts: 568
We either make a trade or sign Travis d'Arnaud

Yas - .246 BA / .468 Slug / -0.4dWAR
d'Arnaud - .263 BA / .459 Slug / -0.1dWAR ( with Tampa )

The OBP is the huge difference


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#68

Posted: November 21, 2019, 11:52 AM Post
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If they decide to go the FA route for a catcher, I'm going to guess d'Arnaud or Jason Castro. Both seem like Stearns types.

But it wouldn't surprise me to see them roll with Pina/Nottingham/Freitas, and invest that Grandal $$$ at other spots, too.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#69

Posted: November 21, 2019, 11:55 AM Post
Posts: 3951
It is hard to imagine spending big money on a Catcher that could be spent on pitching. Look at who was playing Catcher in the World Series! Manny Piña is plenty good enough, this team needs much better pitching

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#70

Posted: November 21, 2019, 12:13 PM Post
Posts: 657
3and2Fastball said:
It is hard to imagine spending big money on a Catcher that could be spent on pitching. Look at who was playing Catcher in the World Series! Manny Piña is plenty good enough, this team needs much better pitching


Yeah, find a cheap backup catcher to platoon with Pina (similar to Kratz a couple of years go), and use some of this $$ saved from Yaz to go improve the team in other areas. We all knew that Yaz was by far the best C on the market this winter, and that we probably weren't going to be the highest bidder for his services. I'm sure DS and Co. have a backup plan ready to go.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#71

Posted: November 21, 2019, 12:31 PM Post
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madtownhawk said:
Yeah, find a cheap backup catcher to platoon with Pina (similar to Kratz a couple of years go)


That Pina/Kratz combo was pretty average at best offensively, though. I think you have to shoot for something better than a cheap replacement-level vet at the position, considering that guy is likely to get 30-50% of the starts.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#72

Posted: November 21, 2019, 12:58 PM Post
Posts: 834
I think Jason Castro probably makes the most sense as a platoon mate with Pina at this point. Lefty bat who is about a league average hitter against righties. He's unplayable against lefties which is ok with Pina around too.

Looks like he's a decent defender with ok pitch framing numbers.

Could do worse than a Pina/Castro time share.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#73

Posted: November 21, 2019, 1:02 PM Post
Posts: 5058
Well, this offseason is looking like a disaster...


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#74

Posted: November 21, 2019, 1:06 PM Post
Posts: 584
clancyphile said:
Well, this offseason is looking like a disaster...


It's November 21st.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#75

Posted: November 21, 2019, 1:11 PM Post
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clancyphile said:
Well, this offseason is looking like a disaster...


Come on, man! You are certainly playing right into the thought processes of those of us who view you as a troll ...


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#76

Posted: November 21, 2019, 1:21 PM Post
Posts: 1170
Location: Washburn, WI
clancyphile said:
Well, this offseason is looking like a disaster...


If we get to February and are still looking at a bottom of the order of Shaw, Pina, Arcia, P, I’ll agree with you. There’s been like 2 big name guys that have signed contracts. Heck, tomorrow we could sign Donaldson and the “entire offseason” looks different. There will be key guys brought in over the next few months.


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#77

Posted: November 21, 2019, 3:11 PM Post
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RollieTime said:
clancyphile said:
Well, this offseason is looking like a disaster...


If we get to February and are still looking at a bottom of the order of Shaw, Pina, Arcia, P, I’ll agree with you. There’s been like 2 big name guys that have signed contracts. Heck, tomorrow we could sign Donaldson and the “entire offseason” looks different. There will be key guys brought in over the next few months.


I'd rather shoot for the stars and sign Rendon if we are out on Moose...

I do NOT, under any circumstance, want Shaw as a starting infielder on opening day.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#78

Posted: November 21, 2019, 3:15 PM Post
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turborickey said:
RollieTime said:
clancyphile said:
Well, this offseason is looking like a disaster...


If we get to February and are still looking at a bottom of the order of Shaw, Pina, Arcia, P, I’ll agree with you. There’s been like 2 big name guys that have signed contracts. Heck, tomorrow we could sign Donaldson and the “entire offseason” looks different. There will be key guys brought in over the next few months.


I'd rather shoot for the stars and sign Rendon if we are out on Moose...

I do NOT, under any circumstance, want Shaw as a starting infielder on opening day.


So is it that you are ignoring his 2017-18 numbers, or is it that you believe he's done?


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#79

Posted: November 21, 2019, 3:23 PM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:

So is it that you are ignoring his 2017-18 numbers, or is it that you believe he's done?


I believe that he is too big of a risk to go into the season with any expectations of seeing 2017-18 Travis Shaw.

So I guess the answer to your question is yes, I think he is done.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Catcher Position for 2020
#80

Posted: November 21, 2019, 3:28 PM Post
Posts: 5058
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
clancyphile said:
Well, this offseason is looking like a disaster...


Come on, man! You are certainly playing right into the thought processes of those of us who view you as a troll ...


We're looking at a significant downgrade at catcher, and we still have gaping holes at shortstop, first base, and third base. There's no comparable bat on the market to Grandal.


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