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Hader trade ideas

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Offline  Hader trade ideas
#1

Posted: October 31, 2019, 8:51 AM Post
Posts: 14
Location: Milwaukee
With the World Series over and the shortcomings in the Astros bullpen made abundantly clear do they make a play for a bullpen ace? What kind of package do you think the Brewers could expect for Hader?


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Offline  Re: Hader to the Astros
#2

Posted: October 31, 2019, 9:11 AM Post
Posts: 4735
not enough to want to deal the repeat NL reliever of the year from a team that will always need to lean more heavily on its bullpen than big market squads capable of buying starting pitching. The Brewers have him under team control through his age 29 season in 2023.

Hader's best value to the Brewers continues to be pitching for the Brewers provided they want to remain contending teams during the time Yelich is in Milwaukee. They would be nuts to trade either unless it's part of a full firesale mode, which IMO is pointless given the status of other clubs in their division - the Cubs are a bit of a mess and in flux, the Cards are in decent shape but have holes that won't allow them to dominate the division, the Reds still aren't a competitive roster and the Pirates are in perpetual rebuild mode. 2020 should be another season where the Brewers go for it, and trading Hader is the opposite of that approach.


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Offline  Re: Hader to the Astros
#3

Posted: October 31, 2019, 10:00 AM Post
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Gonzo75 said:
With the World Series over and the shortcomings in the Astros bullpen made abundantly clear do they make a play for a bullpen ace? What kind of package do you think the Brewers could expect for Hader?


The Astros had the 4th best bullpen in MLB by runs allowed based WAR over the course of 555 innings during the 162 game regular season, that is far more telling than their results over the last 22 innings / 7 games.

I mean Verlander went 0-2 with a 5.73 ERA in the World Series, were his shortcomings made abundantly clear?


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Offline  Re: Hader to the Astros
#4

Posted: December 01, 2019, 9:45 PM Post
Posts: 206
I’m not sure where to ask this but Rosenthal posted an article and one of the main points is Brewers potentially trading Hader. Does anyone have an Athletic subscription? What does it say?


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Offline  Re: Hader to the Astros
#5

Posted: December 01, 2019, 9:48 PM Post
Posts: 1926
IntentionalHBP said:
I’m not sure where to ask this but Rosenthal posted an article and one of the main points is Brewers potentially trading Hader. Does anyone have an Athletic subscription? What does it say?


I don't have a subscription but here is the lead in...


In their never-ending quest for payroll efficiency, low-revenue teams often entertain ideas that, on the surface, appear to make little sense.

Trading Josh Hader would be precisely that type of counterintuitive move for the Brewers, yet the left-handed reliever is indeed available, according to major-league sources.

“We listen on a wide variety of players throughout the offseason. A lot of players get discussed,” Brewers general manager David Stearns said, while adhering to his policy of refusing to comment on specific players in trade conversations.

Why would the Brewers even consider moving Hader, who has won the Trevor Hoffman Award as the best reliever in the National League in each of the past two seasons and is still only 25?

Follow the money. And Hader’s trade value, too.

Hader, who had enough service time as a two-year player to qualify for an extra round of salary arbitration, is projected by MLB Trade Rumors to...


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Offline  Re: Hader to the Astros
#6

Posted: December 01, 2019, 9:50 PM Post
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IntentionalHBP said:
I’m not sure where to ask this but Rosenthal posted an article and one of the main points is Brewers potentially trading Hader. Does anyone have an Athletic subscription? What does it say?


Basically stats the Brewers are open to dealing Hader, that it would be disastrous if Hader fell off. Specifically watch out for the Mets


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Offline  Re: Hader to the Astros
#7

Posted: December 01, 2019, 9:59 PM Post
Posts: 1926
MVP2110 said:
IntentionalHBP said:
I’m not sure where to ask this but Rosenthal posted an article and one of the main points is Brewers potentially trading Hader. Does anyone have an Athletic subscription? What does it say?


Basically stats the Brewers are open to dealing Hader, that it would be disastrous if Hader fell off. Specifically watch out for the Mets


Sure, for DeGrom [smile]


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Offline  Re: Hader to the Astros
#8

Posted: December 01, 2019, 10:01 PM Post
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IntentionalHBP said:
I’m not sure where to ask this but Rosenthal posted an article and one of the main points is Brewers potentially trading Hader. Does anyone have an Athletic subscription? What does it say?

The article doesn't really offer anything new.

As noted, it says that the Brewers are willing to listen on just about any player on the roster - including Hader. And Rosenthal quotes 'major league sources' that say Hader is available. The price would be huge, and most any contending team (at least with money available) would love to have Hader.

Rosenthal speculates that the Mets would be interested - but he doesn't have any specific evidence for this (and says so) - other than Mets GM Brodie Van Wagenen used to represent Hader (and Van Wagenen has acquired several of his former clients).

He notes that Hader has been used heavily the last two years, and that he will get expensive very quickly. Those two factors may make the Brewers willing to listen if teams comes calling.

Again, none of this is new stuff. Just Rosenthal chatting up the possibilities, which his fine.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#9

Posted: December 01, 2019, 10:06 PM Post
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I have changed the title of this thread from 'Hader to Astros' to 'Hader trade ideas' so it can be a general catch all for Hader conversations.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#10

Posted: December 01, 2019, 10:12 PM Post
Posts: 785
I'm vehemently against trading Hader.

Having said that, if the Brewers are willing do end up trading Hader it better be for a pre-arb position player who has already shown some success in the big leagues (not interested in a first baseman or second baseman though).


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#11

Posted: December 01, 2019, 10:14 PM Post
Posts: 1926
long ball said:
I'm vehemently against trading Hader.

Having said that, if the Brewers are willing do end up trading Hader it better be for a pre-arb position player who has already shown some success in the big leagues (not interested in a first baseman or second baseman though).


I'm vehemently against it as well, unless the haul is MASSIVE and i mean MASSIVE with major league ready players and IF and only if the Brewers use the extra money for some MAJOR free agents.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#12

Posted: December 01, 2019, 10:17 PM Post
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Here's my Hader to the Mets trade:

Mets get: Hader
Brewers get: Jeff McNeil, 1B Dominic Smith, LHP David Peterson

McNeil goes to 3B (5 years of control remaining)
Smith goes to 1B (5 years of control remaining)
Peterson is a former 1st round pick from Oregon who has had middling success thus far - reaching AA last year. But he has some good peripherals, and could be a middle of the rotation type starter. Won't help in 2020, but could down the road.

Yes, you open a massive hole in the bullpen, but you potentially fill two position slots - for very cheap.

Just an idea.


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Online  Re: Hader trade ideas
#13

Posted: December 01, 2019, 10:18 PM Post
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I wonder if the Brewers would be able to acquire J.D. Davis and Dom Smith for Hader? Would be two young, talented pre-arby hitters to fill their holes at 3B and 1B.


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Offline  Re: Hader to the Astros
#14

Posted: December 01, 2019, 10:26 PM Post
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reillymcshane said:
IntentionalHBP said:
I’m not sure where to ask this but Rosenthal posted an article and one of the main points is Brewers potentially trading Hader. Does anyone have an Athletic subscription? What does it say?

The article doesn't really offer anything new.

As noted, it says that the Brewers are willing to listen on just about any player on the roster - including Hader. And Rosenthal quotes 'major league sources' that say Hader is available. The price would be huge, and most any contending team (at least with money available) would love to have Hader.

Rosenthal speculates that the Mets would be interested - but he doesn't have any specific evidence for this (and says so) - other than Mets GM Brodie Van Wagenen used to represent Hader (and Van Wagenen has acquired several of his former clients).

He notes that Hader has been used heavily the last two years, and that he will get expensive very quickly. Those two factors may make the Brewers willing to listen if teams comes calling.

Again, none of this is new stuff. Just Rosenthal chatting up the possibilities, which his fine.


The other interesting note is that while his projected arbitration salary is $4.6 million the CBA allows his agents to argue that he is a player of "special accomplishment" enabling them to compare him to any reliever, not just those in his service class.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#15

Posted: December 01, 2019, 10:41 PM Post
Posts: 2360
I like this deal for the most part. Smith has been up and down but McNeil is a hitting machine. Reminds me of Jeff Cirillo. Add McNeil to Urias and Hiura and hopefully you have a pretty good hitting infield. Grab a catcher and a starter and we should be better.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#16

Posted: December 01, 2019, 11:00 PM Post
Posts: 4729
Here's one idea with the Mets:

BREWERS GET
IF/OF Jeff McNeil ($44.7)
C Patrick Mazeika ($0.8)
3B Mark Vientos ($13.2)

METS GET:
LHP Josh Hader ($48.3)
OF Tristan Lutz ($7.8)

Sign Castellanos as a free agent, and now, you have a lineup of:
ss: Urias
2b: Hiura
rf: Yelich
1b: Castellanos
3b: McNeil
lf: Braun
c: Pina
cf: Cain


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#17

Posted: December 02, 2019, 12:52 AM Post
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Yikes, no way am I centering a Hader trade on McNeil. You have to remember that the objective projected WAR "value" of an elite RP like Hader is going to be far below his market value in MLB.

The only matchup I can see working would be with the Dodgers, who need bullpen help and have near-MLB talent that could help us win in 2020.

Maybe something centered around:

C Will Smith or C Keibert Ruiz
RHP Dustin May


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#18

Posted: December 02, 2019, 4:37 AM Post
Posts: 239
I have been saying for the past 3 months the Brewers will be foolish NOT to trade Hader. It is more than the potential money we would pay in arbitration, it is the perfect time to reap huge rewards/prospects/fill openings at 1st and 3rd


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Online  Re: Hader trade ideas
#19

Posted: December 02, 2019, 4:51 AM Post
Posts: 19580
BadgerBert said:
I have been saying for the past 3 months the Brewers will be foolish NOT to trade Hader. It is more than the potential money we would pay in arbitration, it is the perfect time to reap huge rewards/prospects/fill openings at 1st and 3rd


As with anything else, we just have to keep our options open and if the right deal falls into our lap, by all means take it. But they shouldn't be afraid to say no to trading him if their price tag isn't met.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#20

Posted: December 02, 2019, 6:06 AM Post
Posts: 1052
reillymcshane said:
Here's my Hader to the Mets trade:

Mets get: Hader
Brewers get: Jeff McNeil, 1B Dominic Smith, LHP David Peterson

McNeil goes to 3B (5 years of control remaining)
Smith goes to 1B (5 years of control remaining)
Peterson is a former 1st round pick from Oregon who has had middling success thus far - reaching AA last year. But he has some good peripherals, and could be a middle of the rotation type starter. Won't help in 2020, but could down the road.

Yes, you open a massive hole in the bullpen, but you potentially fill two position slots - for very cheap.

Just an idea.


I'd do that in a heartbeat. Solves two of the biggest holes on the current roster for minimum salary. Frees up $4-5m to spend on pitching (or a catcher) to go with the $40-50m already there. Whatever Peterson ends up doing is just icing on the cake.

But I also think that's an unrealistically good trade, one that not even the Mets would make. The ideal trade partner, as needs match up, would probably be the Dodgers. The issue there is that they've not shown any kind of willingness to trade any young player they believe in. But let's imagine they're flexible on that for the sake or argument. With Urias here Gavin Lux is probably not an option anymore. But they have pitchers May or Gonsolin (Wouldn't be the headliner, but a useful addition to a better prospect), catchers like Will Smith (Probably untouchable though) and Keibert Ruiz. Makes a lot of sense on paper.

Generally I'm very much in favor of checking out the market for Hader. With a high asking price of course. Hader is one of the best relievers in the game, but relievers are volatile and they impact at most 5% of innings pitched (Even if those innings tend to be high-leverage ones). That's not to say they're not important, but it should still be the last area you focus on. If you can use a reliever, even a really good one, to fill two immediate needs elsewhere, you do it.

However I think it'll be a struggle to find a partner that matches up. Dodgers were discussed above. Astros kind of fit the same mould. But beyond that? Would the Mets really do that kind of deal again? Yankees seem to be collecting every reliever they can and they have the ammunition, but at some point even they will say enough is enough. Anyone else seems like a real long shot. Braves? Padres? If the White Sox really are serious this year?

I think ultimately no team meets the asking price, and Hader remains a Brewer.


Last edited by Lathund on December 02, 2019, 6:20 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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