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Hader trade ideas

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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 2:59 PM Post
Posts: 31
Location: Birmingham,AL
I would be after the Rays and see what they would offer up

Hader for Nate Lowe, Chaz Roe (offset some salary for TB), Daniel Robertson (new better Perez with OBP skills), Tyler Frank, and Brent Honeywell (total wildcard)

TB is still pretty set at 1B, Brewers get a stud 1B for the long haul, Roberston is pretty superflous to them and can backup 2nd, SS, and 3rd for us. Frank was hurt last year but is a prospect I love, Roe is useful in our bullpen and Honeywell is a huge wildcard.

Maybe it's light for Hader on certainty and Lowe doesn't exactly play a premium position but it fills holes with upside all over the place


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 3:01 PM Post
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Posts: 3333
Location: California
madtownhawk said:
Switching gears a bit back to the Dodgers. There are still reports out there that they are hot after Rendon. If that's the case, could it be possible that they would be willing to trade Seager? How about a Seager/May package for Hader? If not Seager, how about a Turner/May/Ruiz package - that would allow them to shed some $$ in order to then sign Rendon? We'd have Turner on the books for 2020, but then that 20M would come off along with Braun after next season.

Page 4 of the thread I proposed Seager at 3B as a target for Hader. Seager is only under contract for another two years but if the package included May as well, I think this would make sense.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 3:19 PM Post
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I think it would be very short sighted to trade Hader with the thoughts of trying to fill the current holes in our lineup with multiple lesser talents.

If you trade Josh Hader, a MLB ready, proven young stud would have to be a headliner, IMO. (Jeff McNeil will be 28 years old at the start of next season, BTW. Check out his underwhelming minor league career stats. Dude only hit 28 Hr in over 1600 minor league abs)

Otherwise, Brewers are better off keeping Hader and filling those holes via free agency, etc.

Unless blown away with an offer, I expect Josh Hader to be a Brewer to begin 2020.

If the Brewers indeed floated the notion that Hader is available, my guess is that they wanted to gauge the market on him.

That way, if they are OUT OF CONTENTION come his July or next, they can circle back to the GM's that expressed interest and already have an idea on what they'd be willing to give up via trade. It would even be smart to have Brewers scouting department scout some of the prospects being proposed in deals for Josh between now and July.

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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 3:42 PM Post
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A Swing and A Drive said:
(Jeff McNeil will be 28 years old at the start of next season, BTW. Check out his underwhelming minor league career stats. Dude only hit 28 Hr in over 1600 minor league abs)


McNeil batted 311/380/442 (~135 wRC+) with an 11.2 K% in his minor league career.

In the majors he has batted 321/383/513 (141 wRC+) with a 12.1 K%.

He has always been a high average, low strikeout hitter. Power is often the last tool to develop, especially for players matching his profile.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 4:03 PM Post
Posts: 2720
Not every player who's a good player hits loads of HRs. Too often the Brewers are hurt by their HR-or-nothing offensive tendencies. I think having more guys who can just plain HIT is really important.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 4:16 PM Post
Posts: 608
Luke99 said:
I would be after the Rays and see what they would offer up

Hader for Nate Lowe, Chaz Roe (offset some salary for TB), Daniel Robertson (new better Perez with OBP skills), Tyler Frank, and Brent Honeywell (total wildcard)

TB is still pretty set at 1B, Brewers get a stud 1B for the long haul, Roberston is pretty superflous to them and can backup 2nd, SS, and 3rd for us. Frank was hurt last year but is a prospect I love, Roe is useful in our bullpen and Honeywell is a huge wildcard.

Maybe it's light for Hader on certainty and Lowe doesn't exactly play a premium position but it fills holes with upside all over the place


Meh. This package from the Rays would do very little to get me excited if I were DS. Granted, I don't have full evaluations of some of these guys, but in this package I think you'd be putting all of your marbles in the Honeywell basket and hoping that he returns to form following his injury. That might be too much of a risk for the Brewers when parting with a stud like Hader.

If we are dealing with the Rays for Hader, how about we get creative and go with a Hader & Arcia package for Adames & Honeywell? I'm guessing the Rays say "no" to that deal, but they might eventually need to part with either Adames or Lowe in another year to make room for Wander Franco. And Honeywell might still be a bit of a wildcard, and they seemingly have young stud SP coming out of their ears in that organization - so maybe they'd be willing to part with the one that's coming off of an injury?


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 4:21 PM Post
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MNBrew said:
Not every player who's a good player hits loads of HRs. Too often the Brewers are hurt by their HR-or-nothing offensive tendencies. I think having more guys who can just plain HIT is really important.


Exactly. This team isn't going to hurt to hit HRs as long at Yelich, Braun, Hiura and whoever they find to play 1B are around. Urias profiles as having more power than Arcia as well if he wins the SS job. This team could benefit from turning some of those solo dingers into 2-3 run shots.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 4:24 PM Post
Posts: 2720
The late-'90s teams with lots of solid hitters were doomed by their so-so pitching, but I don't remember the offense being so all-or-nothing and thus so frequently runs-starved. Some of these guys had more pop than others but none were major power hitters:

Cirillo
Vina
Loretta
Hamilton
Nilsson

There was Burnitz in there, eventually Sexson, Vaughn & Jaha at different times -- mainly corner 1B & corner OFs. But those guys above were generally very solid hitters and all made the team/lineup better -- NONE made it worse.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 4:43 PM Post
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Location: California
madtownhawk said:
I think they were mentioned earlier in this thread, but how about the White Sox as a team that might line up with us for Hader? Is a Cease/Vaughn package too much to ask for Hader? Or, how about a Kopech/Vaughn package? They are clearly trying to build a competitive team down there, and Hader could be a huge piece for them. They have enough money to go out and get one of the big F/A SP's on the market to replace either Cease/Kopech in the rotation, and Vaughn appears to be road blocked at 1B for a few years by Abreu. Would they make for a good match?

I would do either of these in a heartbeat. Vaughn reminds me of Hiura (excellent plate approach) and is immediately the 1B of the future to go with Hiura at 2B and (hopefully) Urias at SS. Kopech or Cease are TOR talent type pitchers. For this package, I would gladly sacrifice some 2020 wins.

EDIT: Then there is this:
https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/1201995606488731649

If 2020 is all in, let's take advantage and give them the best reliever on the market.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 4:52 PM Post
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I don't think I could do it for McNeil. He's the kind of hitter I love but I don't really think it makes the team better. You'd have to be overwhelmed. I agree, he's a luxury on a team with what appears to be many holes to file, but he's a damn good luxury and potentially still learning. His best seasons should, in theory, still be ahead of him.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 4:53 PM Post
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MLB has changed since the 90s...guys like Cirillo don't exist anymore. If you are missing power you better draw a ton of walks because nobody makes a career out of hitting for average these days.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 5:10 PM Post
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Location: California
owbc said:
MLB has changed since the 90s...guys like Cirillo don't exist anymore. If you are missing power you better draw a ton of walks because nobody makes a career out of hitting for average these days.

If that is the case, then I think that is the new Moneyball. I would take eight Cirillos every single day of the week over eight Moustakas (Moustaki? [laughing] ).

Cirillo per 162 games:
*.296/.366/.796
*11 HR
*73 RBI

Moustakas per 162 games:
*.252/.310/.751
*26 HR
*80 RBI


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 5:41 PM Post
Posts: 7241
https://twitter.com/buster_espn/status/ ... 85952?s=21


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 5:58 PM Post
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Posts: 1864
Pretty much what we thought- we keep Hader unless it’s an absolute massive overpay for him.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 7:00 PM Post
Posts: 601
Luke99 said:
I would be after the Rays and see what they would offer up

Hader for Nate Lowe, Chaz Roe (offset some salary for TB), Daniel Robertson (new better Perez with OBP skills), Tyler Frank, and Brent Honeywell (total wildcard)

TB is still pretty set at 1B, Brewers get a stud 1B for the long haul, Roberston is pretty superflous to them and can backup 2nd, SS, and 3rd for us. Frank was hurt last year but is a prospect I love, Roe is useful in our bullpen and Honeywell is a huge wildcard.

Maybe it's light for Hader on certainty and Lowe doesn't exactly play a premium position but it fills holes with upside all over the place



Lowe is a butcher in the field and a DH only. No use to the Crew. Roe could help, but he walks a ton of people for a pen guy, 1.58 WHIP. Maybe as a throw-in. Robertson is a dime-a-dozen utility guy that you can find everywhere. Not much value. Frank is a minor leaguer who hit .184/.256 in A ball. He isn't worth much, if anything. Honeywell is a AAA pitcher who did ok, but nothing to write home about. Your package would do nothing to even make the slightest differenct to the Brewers and cost them the best reliever in the NL.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 04, 2019, 8:02 AM Post
Posts: 4721
Warning Track Power said:
owbc said:
MLB has changed since the 90s...guys like Cirillo don't exist anymore. If you are missing power you better draw a ton of walks because nobody makes a career out of hitting for average these days.

If that is the case, then I think that is the new Moneyball. I would take eight Cirillos every single day of the week over eight Moustakas (Moustaki? [laughing] ).

Cirillo per 162 games:
*.296/.366/.796
*11 HR
*73 RBI

Moustakas per 162 games:
*.252/.310/.751
*26 HR
*80 RBI


Stearns getting Urias to go with Yelich and Hiura does seem to suggest that is what the Brewers may be thinking.

Look at Turang as well... the reason he dropped in the 2018 draft was the fact that expected power didn't materialize... but prior to being (prematurely?) promoted to A+, he did flash hit-for-average skills AND OBP skills.

And as teams stopped stealing bases, the ability of a catcher to gun down the runner has been de-emphasized - that will be the next iteration of Moneyball.

On the pitching side of things, with the emphasis on home runs... we will see a trend towards pitchers who can regularly induce ground balls. I'm looking at the acquisition of Yardley.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 04, 2019, 8:31 AM Post
Posts: 557
Luis Robert and Zach Collins for Hader.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 04, 2019, 10:05 AM Post
Posts: 608
mlloyd10 said:
Luis Robert and Zach Collins for Hader.


A couple of questions on this trade package idea:

Is Robert expected to be up with the White Sox early in the 2020 season? I see that they currently don't have much at CF and in RF, so my guess is that they are probably going to hold an OF spot for Robert in 2020, which probably makes him an "untouchable" piece.

Also, is Collins decent defensively behind the plate, or is he being projected more as a 1B? Looks like he put up some good offensive numbers this past year at AAA, so obviously his value would be pretty high if he could stick at C.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 04, 2019, 10:47 AM Post
Posts: 4527
Warning Track Power said:
madtownhawk said:
I think they were mentioned earlier in this thread, but how about the White Sox as a team that might line up with us for Hader? Is a Cease/Vaughn package too much to ask for Hader? Or, how about a Kopech/Vaughn package? They are clearly trying to build a competitive team down there, and Hader could be a huge piece for them. They have enough money to go out and get one of the big F/A SP's on the market to replace either Cease/Kopech in the rotation, and Vaughn appears to be road blocked at 1B for a few years by Abreu. Would they make for a good match?

I would do either of these in a heartbeat. Vaughn reminds me of Hiura (excellent plate approach) and is immediately the 1B of the future to go with Hiura at 2B and (hopefully) Urias at SS. Kopech or Cease are TOR talent type pitchers. For this package, I would gladly sacrifice some 2020 wins.

EDIT: Then there is this:
https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/1201995606488731649

If 2020 is all in, let's take advantage and give them the best reliever on the market.


Man what will the White Sox payroll be? Going to jump over 200mil in a heartbeat to go from a 70ish win team to WS contender overnight? Jeesh.

Que Cease+ for Hader.
Giolito, Nova,Wheeler clearly now, +1more FA signing. The insanity of their moves would lead me to think Cease and a top 3 in their minors, +plus is not out of the realm here.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 04, 2019, 10:59 AM Post
Posts: 608
brewcrewdue80 said:
Warning Track Power said:
madtownhawk said:
I think they were mentioned earlier in this thread, but how about the White Sox as a team that might line up with us for Hader? Is a Cease/Vaughn package too much to ask for Hader? Or, how about a Kopech/Vaughn package? They are clearly trying to build a competitive team down there, and Hader could be a huge piece for them. They have enough money to go out and get one of the big F/A SP's on the market to replace either Cease/Kopech in the rotation, and Vaughn appears to be road blocked at 1B for a few years by Abreu. Would they make for a good match?

I would do either of these in a heartbeat. Vaughn reminds me of Hiura (excellent plate approach) and is immediately the 1B of the future to go with Hiura at 2B and (hopefully) Urias at SS. Kopech or Cease are TOR talent type pitchers. For this package, I would gladly sacrifice some 2020 wins.

EDIT: Then there is this:
https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/1201995606488731649

If 2020 is all in, let's take advantage and give them the best reliever on the market.


Man what will the White Sox payroll be? Going to jump over 200mil in a heartbeat to go from a 70ish win team to WS contender overnight? Jeesh.

Que Cease+ for Hader.
Giolito, Nova,Wheeler clearly now, +1more FA signing. The insanity of their moves would lead me to think Cease and a top 3 in their minors, +plus is not out of the realm here.


There's no doubt that the White Sox would seemingly make a lot of sense here. A team that is constantly overshadowed in their own city (especially over the past 4-5 years with the Cubs success and WS title), and a team that is clearly now seeing an opportunity to compete with some of their young players now up in the Majors and also an opportunity to at least steal back some of the front page headlines from the Cubs. I think I'd do cartwheels if we could get a Cease & Vaughn package from them for Hader.


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