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Hader trade ideas

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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 7:29 AM Post
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Brew4U said:
Package Hader and Yelich and go for the entire farm.


I can't tell if you are being serious, or trying to poke the bear, but it worked. I hate this idea, and it makes me mad to even think about. The Brewers aren't going to deal the guy they just signed to a "face of the franchise" type deal 9 months ago. That just isn't gonna happen. Not only does it make zero sense, it would be PR suicide for Stearns and Attanasio.

I could see them dealing Hader to the Padres. I saw a lot of Cub fans saying they thought the Darvish deal would be for Gore and Cronenworth. I don't anticipate both those guys coming back for Hader, but I think one would need to be included.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 7:40 AM Post
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Eye Black said:
There are rumors the Padres still have more trade discussions ongoing. It might be time to bring your best Hader to the Padres trade to the table.


Yeah still think Hader to the Padres makes too much sense. They have a need for relief pitching and still have most of their top prospects in tact even after all of the moves yesterday.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 8:13 AM Post
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Ron Robinson's Beard said:
I could see them dealing Hader to the Padres. I saw a lot of Cub fans saying they thought the Darvish deal would be for Gore and Cronenworth. I don't anticipate both those guys coming back for Hader, but I think one would need to be included.


Hader for Cronenworth, Morejon, and whichever of Abrams/Capusano/Hassell you like best? A bat that plays right away, a top 100 guy, and a really interesting young arm.

Cronenworth and Morejon seem a bit displaced by the moves yesterday, so it might be an opportunity to buy at the right time on them.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 8:29 AM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
Ron Robinson's Beard said:
I could see them dealing Hader to the Padres. I saw a lot of Cub fans saying they thought the Darvish deal would be for Gore and Cronenworth. I don't anticipate both those guys coming back for Hader, but I think one would need to be included.


Hader for Cronenworth, Morejon, and whichever of Abrams/Capusano/Hassell you like best? A bat that plays right away, a top 100 guy, and a really interesting young arm.

Cronenworth and Morejon seem a bit displaced by the moves yesterday, so it might be an opportunity to buy at the right time on them.


I guess Cronenworth isnt moving off of 2B... Im guessing Kim will be utility player or play matchups to get him in the lineup.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 8:31 AM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
Ron Robinson's Beard said:
I could see them dealing Hader to the Padres. I saw a lot of Cub fans saying they thought the Darvish deal would be for Gore and Cronenworth. I don't anticipate both those guys coming back for Hader, but I think one would need to be included.


Hader for Cronenworth, Morejon, and whichever of Abrams/Capusano/Hassell you like best? A bat that plays right away, a top 100 guy, and a really interesting young arm.

Cronenworth and Morejon seem a bit displaced by the moves yesterday, so it might be an opportunity to buy at the right time on them.


I really, really like the Cronenworth idea. He plays a bunch of positions, and is a very good defender at 2B and 1B, and can also play SS, but the Brewer could slot him in predominantly at 3B. Not a huge power bat, but with the way lefties hit at Miller Park, I think he'd be good for 25 HRs. He also is not a big strikeout guy. Also entering his age 27 season, so its his prime years and he's got a ton of cheap team control. He seems like the perfect Stearns target. I could easily see Morejon or Ryan Weathers as a second piece if Gore is unattainable.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 8:32 AM Post
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BestInTheWorld said:
PeaveyFury said:
Ron Robinson's Beard said:
I could see them dealing Hader to the Padres. I saw a lot of Cub fans saying they thought the Darvish deal would be for Gore and Cronenworth. I don't anticipate both those guys coming back for Hader, but I think one would need to be included.


Hader for Cronenworth, Morejon, and whichever of Abrams/Capusano/Hassell you like best? A bat that plays right away, a top 100 guy, and a really interesting young arm.

Cronenworth and Morejon seem a bit displaced by the moves yesterday, so it might be an opportunity to buy at the right time on them.


I guess Cronenworth isnt moving off of 2B... Im guessing Kim will be utility player or play matchups to get him in the lineup.


I think that is lip service. I don't see them signing Kim to that nice deal, only to use him as a utility guy.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 8:47 AM Post
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Yeah if you can get Cronenworth that would be great - solves our 1B/3B issues. If you can get Abrams or Campusano in addition to Cronenworth, that would be fantastic. I would be all over that offer.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 8:49 AM Post
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Do the Padres say no to Cronenworth/Hassell/Morejon?


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 9:00 AM Post
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if they move him, i would hope they get a corner IF and a SP. They seem obsessed with middle of the field guys in trades and the draft, which is fine, but you do need players at the corners too.

Personally I hope its an arms race and the dodgers make a move for Hader, who seems to better match up with us tradewise. Rios / Beeter / another piece


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 9:09 AM Post
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R.Weathers,T.Marcano,O.Cruz and/or L.Bachar
Weathers is a good young pitcher that fits their profile as well as Cruz. Marcano is a middle infielder that kind of fits their profile minus power and Bachar is form Wisconsin so it gives people something to root for lol


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 9:11 AM Post
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We would be fortunate to get Cronenworth for Hader straight up. I don't know what has happened with the Padres' previous moves that would make us think we're going to be able to take them to the cleaners for Hader.

Hader simply isn't valued the way that we would like to see in a trade. If you want to see an arms race, then put Woodruff or Burnes on the block.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 9:20 AM Post
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adambr2 said:
We would be fortunate to get Cronenworth for Hader straight up. I don't know what has happened with the Padres' previous moves that would make us think we're going to be able to take them to the cleaners for Hader.

Hader simply isn't valued the way that we would like to see in a trade. If you want to see an arms race, then put Woodruff or Burnes on the block.


It does seem to be a buyer's market this year with trades. If the best the Brewers can do is similar to what the Cubs got for Darvish (an average #4 starter and a bunch of lottery tickets) then I'd prefer the Brewers just hang on to Hader and go for the championship in a watered-down division.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 9:30 AM Post
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Ron Robinson's Beard said:
adambr2 said:
We would be fortunate to get Cronenworth for Hader straight up. I don't know what has happened with the Padres' previous moves that would make us think we're going to be able to take them to the cleaners for Hader.

Hader simply isn't valued the way that we would like to see in a trade. If you want to see an arms race, then put Woodruff or Burnes on the block.


It does seem to be a buyer's market this year with trades. If the best the Brewers can do is similar to what the Cubs got for Darvish (an average #4 starter and a bunch of lottery tickets) then I'd prefer the Brewers just hang on to Hader and go for the championship in a watered-down division.


Heck I'd go all-in on our bullpen by keeping Hader and signing either of Liam Hendricks or Brad Hand.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 9:31 AM Post
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Ron Robinson's Beard said:
adambr2 said:
We would be fortunate to get Cronenworth for Hader straight up. I don't know what has happened with the Padres' previous moves that would make us think we're going to be able to take them to the cleaners for Hader.

Hader simply isn't valued the way that we would like to see in a trade. If you want to see an arms race, then put Woodruff or Burnes on the block.


It does seem to be a buyer's market this year with trades. If the best the Brewers can do is similar to what the Cubs got for Darvish (an average #4 starter and a bunch of lottery tickets) then I'd prefer the Brewers just hang on to Hader and go for the championship in a watered-down division.


It's hard to know whether that's the market, or whether that's what the Cubs wanted. It's possible they chose the lottery tickets (quantity/quality, etc.). Plus Darvish is a bit hard to value just due to his salary/age as well, which are less of a concern with others.

But, to your point- Hader is our biggest/best trade chip this off season. To move him, you'd better get a return that addresses at least one need plus adding talent prospect-wise. Absent that, you're better to keep him.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 9:53 AM Post
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The Brewers and Padres made a deal last year. They very well could be having dialogue. The Padres have emptied out 7 of their top 16 prospects or so. Then you have to say Gore, Campusano, and Abrams are off limits. But then maybe a discussion could involve something like Hader for Jake Cronenworth (assuming we think he can play third), Robert Hassell, and Ryan Weathers.

Brewers get a young left handed bat with at least five years of control, a very young player in Hassel who is a long way away but was a high pick and is known for a really good hit tool. Brewers don’t have a lot of high upside middle of the order bats. Hassell could be groomed at first or corner outfield. Weathers profiles similarly to Small and Ashby.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 12:08 PM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
It's pretty likely that Cronenworth valuations would be all over the board and he's probably fits in the "beauty in the eye of the beholder" department.

A year ago at this time he was a 25-year old that was #15 in the Padres system (Baseball America Handbook). That's a role-player type prospect and on my board is roughly a 5.5 million prospect surplus value type.

So he gets his chance last year and posts a 1.6 bWAR and 1.4 fWAR in a 60 game season. So pro-rate that out to a full season and he was a 4 WAR player. Obviously if that continues he's likely a 100+ million dollar surplus value type player. Now he only had 192 plate appearances, so is he just a flash-in-the-pan of the next Jeff McNeil? Steamer is projecting him as a 2.2 WAR player in 2020.

I'd guess that, on average, valuations would put him as being good for something like 8.5 WAR over the next 5 years. If so, that probably puts his surplus value in the 55-60 million dollar range. I'd put Hader in the 30-35 million range so personally I doubt if Cronenworth could be had in Hader deal.

The other thing that makes me think that the Padres would not deal Cronenworth is the depth chart. They have Tatis at short, Machado at third, Hosmer at first, but really nobody to fill the hole at second if Cronenworth is traded. The backup infielders are Jorge Mateo, catcher Austin Nola (who could fill-in at second but is unlikely to be a primary option) and Tucupita Marcano who is on the 40-man but has not played above A ball. Mateo OPS'ed .454 in very limited MLB action last year and came up through the ranks as a plus-plus speed guy with questions regarding almost every other aspect of his game. Mateo could be a pretty good player down the road but he doesn't strike me as a guy a contender would just want to stick in there and sink-or-swim with.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 12:13 PM Post
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The other thing that makes me think that the Padres would not deal Cronenworth is the depth chart. They have Tatis at short, Machado at third, Hosmer at first, but really nobody to fill the hole at second if Cronenworth is traded.

I thought they were on the record as putting Kim at second?


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 12:15 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
Ron Robinson's Beard said:
Brew4U said:
Package Hader and Yelich and go for the entire farm.


I can't tell if you are being serious, or trying to poke the bear, but it worked. I hate this idea, and it makes me mad to even think about. The Brewers aren't going to deal the guy they just signed to a "face of the franchise" type deal 9 months ago. That just isn't gonna happen. Not only does it make zero sense, it would be PR suicide for Stearns and Attanasio.

I could see them dealing Hader to the Padres. I saw a lot of Cub fans saying they thought the Darvish deal would be for Gore and Cronenworth. I don't anticipate both those guys coming back for Hader, but I think one would need to be included.


I like Yelich but am very afraid of what this team will look like going forward and what he will look like by the time we are competing again. If the Padres offer up the package you can’t refuse I would welcome the get out of jail free card and do a soft restart while we have some pitching.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 12:15 PM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
SoCalBrewfan said:
The other thing that makes me think that the Padres would not deal Cronenworth is the depth chart. They have Tatis at short, Machado at third, Hosmer at first, but really nobody to fill the hole at second if Cronenworth is traded.

I thought they were on the record as putting Kim at second?


Oh crap you are right, I totally forgot about that move.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 29, 2020, 12:33 PM Post
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
I don't believe the Padres will include Cronenworth in a trade for Hader. If the Brewers trade Hader to the Padres it will be a mostly prospect laden deal the Brewers might be able to get Weathers but that would be the only player who would be MLB ready.

I think this is what a trade to the Padres would look like:

Brewers receive:
LHP Weathers
LHP Cruz
OF Head
SS Santana

Padres receive:
LHP Hader

This would give the Brewers another young starting pitcher in Weathers a premiere prospect in Head and two wildcards in Cruz and Santana.


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