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Hader trade ideas

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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#81

Posted: December 02, 2019, 4:23 PM Post
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To me Hader's future trade value is tied to developing his slider (or breaking ball, as Augustine calls it) or something else off speed. You can only throw so many 4 seam fastballs at 92-95 that maintain the swing plane before they start to time them. While still outstanding, he became SLIGHTLY more hittable last season when he had nothing else to throw.

That said, you make it known he is available, but the conversation starts with quality players not necessarily quantity. If nothing wets your beak then let the season play out. If the Brewers fail to contend, they can always see what the trade deadline market offers.

"Failing to prepare is preparing to fail"
John Wooden


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Online  Re: Hader trade ideas
#82

Posted: December 02, 2019, 4:31 PM Post
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THarper3030 said:
That said, you make it known he is available, but the conversation starts with quality players not necessarily quantity. If nothing wets your beak then let the season play out. If the Brewers fail to contend, they can always see what the trade deadline market offers.

This is exactly right. You listen. Can't hurt to listen. If someone wants to pony up a fortune, then you consider it. Otherwise, you still have the guy under contract for a long time, and you can always deal him later.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#83

Posted: December 02, 2019, 4:40 PM Post
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my diehard Mets fan friend is in love with McNeil considering him an MVP caliber player. He says if we traded Hader we would have to give up other prospects to get McNeil. I laughed


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#84

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:05 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
Let's factor in here that it's completely possible if not likely that Rosenthal has slightly mischaracterized what the Brewers are doing with Hader. I doubt we're calling teams like "hey Hader is available, what's your best offer". What's more likely is in talks with other teams, Hader has come up in discussion and certain other teams with big mouths made comments to Rosenthal. I wouldn't be surprised if Yelich, Woodruff, Hiura, Knebel, etc...literally everybody on the Brewers that has value has probably come up in discussion at some point over the last year and a half or so. Stearns has quite the track record on trades, to the point that it's very unlikely he makes a glaringly bad trade when moving Hader.


Given the fact that Rosenthal's source was Stearns himself, I'm led to believe that Stearns used to Rosenthal to get the word out and start the bidding. Much like Stearns' public admonishing of Arcia was out of character and had me believing a replacement was coming, I'm now expecting a Hader trade this offseason. There's reason to believe we've already gotten the best of Hader when factoring in salary and effectiveness. And with free agency looking costlier by the day, Hader is the most likely movable piece than can fill some big holes.


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Online  Re: Hader trade ideas
#85

Posted: December 02, 2019, 6:36 PM Post
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True Blue Brew Crew said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Let's factor in here that it's completely possible if not likely that Rosenthal has slightly mischaracterized what the Brewers are doing with Hader. I doubt we're calling teams like "hey Hader is available, what's your best offer". What's more likely is in talks with other teams, Hader has come up in discussion and certain other teams with big mouths made comments to Rosenthal. I wouldn't be surprised if Yelich, Woodruff, Hiura, Knebel, etc...literally everybody on the Brewers that has value has probably come up in discussion at some point over the last year and a half or so. Stearns has quite the track record on trades, to the point that it's very unlikely he makes a glaringly bad trade when moving Hader.


Given the fact that Rosenthal's source was Stearns himself, I'm led to believe that Stearns used to Rosenthal to get the word out and start the bidding. Much like Stearns' public admonishing of Arcia was out of character and had me believing a replacement was coming, I'm now expecting a Hader trade this offseason. There's reason to believe we've already gotten the best of Hader when factoring in salary and effectiveness. And with free agency looking costlier by the day, Hader is the most likely movable piece than can fill some big holes.


Did Rosenthal say that Stearns said that? I missed it.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#86

Posted: December 02, 2019, 6:40 PM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
True Blue Brew Crew said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Let's factor in here that it's completely possible if not likely that Rosenthal has slightly mischaracterized what the Brewers are doing with Hader. I doubt we're calling teams like "hey Hader is available, what's your best offer". What's more likely is in talks with other teams, Hader has come up in discussion and certain other teams with big mouths made comments to Rosenthal. I wouldn't be surprised if Yelich, Woodruff, Hiura, Knebel, etc...literally everybody on the Brewers that has value has probably come up in discussion at some point over the last year and a half or so. Stearns has quite the track record on trades, to the point that it's very unlikely he makes a glaringly bad trade when moving Hader.


Given the fact that Rosenthal's source was Stearns himself, I'm led to believe that Stearns used to Rosenthal to get the word out and start the bidding. Much like Stearns' public admonishing of Arcia was out of character and had me believing a replacement was coming, I'm now expecting a Hader trade this offseason. There's reason to believe we've already gotten the best of Hader when factoring in salary and effectiveness. And with free agency looking costlier by the day, Hader is the most likely movable piece than can fill some big holes.


Did Rosenthal say that Stearns said that? I missed it.


Yep, Rosenthal's article was made up of direct quotes from Stearns.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#87

Posted: December 02, 2019, 7:05 PM Post
Posts: 1052
From the article:
"Trading Josh Hader would be precisely that type of counterintuitive move for the Brewers, yet the left-handed reliever is indeed available, according to major-league sources.

“We listen on a wide variety of players throughout the offseason. A lot of players get discussed,” Brewers general manager David Stearns said, while adhering to his policy of refusing to comment on specific players in trade conversations."

(That's the only Stearns quote in the article)

To me that reads as Rosenthal reaching out to Stearns for comments after hearing about it elsewhere, and that being Stearns reply. It could of course also be a case of Stearns leaking it off the record and then giving an on the record "response" too. But it's not a given that Stearns was the source.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#88

Posted: December 02, 2019, 7:10 PM Post
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Lathund said:
From the article:
"Trading Josh Hader would be precisely that type of counterintuitive move for the Brewers, yet the left-handed reliever is indeed available, according to major-league sources.

“We listen on a wide variety of players throughout the offseason. A lot of players get discussed,” Brewers general manager David Stearns said, while adhering to his policy of refusing to comment on specific players in trade conversations."

(That's the only Stearns quote in the article)

To me that reads as Rosenthal reaching out to Stearns for comments after hearing about it elsewhere, and that being Stearns reply. It could of course also be a case of Stearns leaking it off the record and then giving an on the record "response" too. But it's not a given that Stearns was the source.


Damn, I got a free look at the article before but it's behind a paywall now. I could've sworn there were more quotes from Stearns in that article, including one in which Stearns used Hader's name. If not, I'm mistaken and I'd lower the odds of a Hader trade into the territory of a coin toss. If forced to wager, I think he gets moved.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#89

Posted: December 02, 2019, 7:28 PM Post
Posts: 2218
Hader for Devers

Boston could use a younger controllable, lights out, elite reliever. We could use a young stud 3B with control.

Would Boston do it? Probably not. Maybe build a deal around Chavis instead. We need corner IF. Hader is a great chip to land one. Dom Smith & McNeil deal would make me pretty happy as well. I just feel if you are going to part with Hader, you got to land a young cornerstone at 1B or 3B. One that has shown some ability to hit at big league level as well. Can’t whiff on it. That’s what I’d like.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#90

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:02 PM Post
Posts: 2721
True Blue Brew Crew said:
Lathund said:
From the article:
"Trading Josh Hader would be precisely that type of counterintuitive move for the Brewers, yet the left-handed reliever is indeed available, according to major-league sources.

“We listen on a wide variety of players throughout the offseason. A lot of players get discussed,” Brewers general manager David Stearns said, while adhering to his policy of refusing to comment on specific players in trade conversations."

(That's the only Stearns quote in the article)

To me that reads as Rosenthal reaching out to Stearns for comments after hearing about it elsewhere, and that being Stearns reply. It could of course also be a case of Stearns leaking it off the record and then giving an on the record "response" too. But it's not a given that Stearns was the source.


Damn, I got a free look at the article before but it's behind a paywall now. I could've sworn there were more quotes from Stearns in that article, including one in which Stearns used Hader's name. If not, I'm mistaken and I'd lower the odds of a Hader trade into the territory of a coin toss. If forced to wager, I think he gets moved.

The italicized above affirms that Stearns, as usual, wouldn't mention any player's name specifically in any discussions with the media.

With how widely reported the past few off-seasons it's been that the Brewers are allegedly interested in a host of names on the FA market or that the Brewers "are listening on [insert any possible Brewer player's name here]...," it's pretty obvious that Stearns isn't unwilling to listen or to explore, but it's also been noted a zillion times that most of the time the Brewers are 1) just doing their due diligence on potentially available players, and 2) listening when other teams call, which is not to say a single thing about their actual willingness/eagerness to deal any player they're called about.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#91

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:38 PM Post

Tom Petty Apologist
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Josh Hader is about the become very expensive. I have no problems with paying him what he had earned, I love having him, however, his trade value will NEVER be higher.

I say listen and someone just might blow you away and you take it.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#92

Posted: December 02, 2019, 9:13 PM Post
Posts: 718
Wow these proposals have gotten nuts. McNeil was double the WAR of Hader last year. Gotta start looking at MiLB players.


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Online  Re: Hader trade ideas
#93

Posted: December 02, 2019, 9:25 PM Post
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umphrey said:
Wow these proposals have gotten nuts. McNeil was double the WAR of Hader last year. Gotta start looking at MiLB players.


Oh yes, because using WAR with relief pitchers is a tried and true way to determine player value.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#94

Posted: December 02, 2019, 9:56 PM Post
Posts: 272
umphrey said:
Wow these proposals have gotten nuts. McNeil was double the WAR of Hader last year. Gotta start looking at MiLB players.


Lmao


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Online  Re: Hader trade ideas
#95

Posted: December 02, 2019, 10:54 PM Post
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umphrey said:
Wow these proposals have gotten nuts. McNeil was double the WAR of Hader last year. Gotta start looking at MiLB players.


Propose: Josh Hader for Jonathan Villar

*Trade Accepted*


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#96

Posted: December 03, 2019, 12:21 AM Post
Posts: 4529
What if during talks with the Padres in the Davies/Urias trade, the Padres inquired if Stearns would yrade Hader? And gave him an example what they'd offer. And say Stearns in the back of his mind, would accept that. But if SD would offer him that, what might another team offer him? And the word now gets out he's willing to trade Hader. You know the Padres have the prospect capitol to entice a Hader trade proposal.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#97

Posted: December 03, 2019, 1:50 AM Post
Posts: 222
Terrible idea to trade him. we should be adding pitching not trading it away


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#98

Posted: December 03, 2019, 6:19 AM Post
Posts: 4183
We should be adding younger cheaper controllable talent, not hanging onto relief pitchers, no matter how good they are.

Given the economics of baseball a franchise like Milwaukee has to survive by recycling talent. Yeah it sucks but we don’t have the money to buy out mistakes like other teams do. Hader has been really really good for us but if you can turn him into cheaper controllable high end talent you do it. Our farm system is, by all accounts, below average at best. Two of the three homegrown starters we were so high on just last off-season had dreadful years as starting pitchers. We can’t continue to survive on one year deals with the Wade Miley’s and Gio Gonzalez’s of the world. Our starting pitching is holding us back. Yes the offense needs to improve to but it’s generally much easier and much cheaper to find hitting than pitching.

My proposal was Hader to the Dodgers for Dustin May and Josiah Gray. If they go for it we’d get two quality starting pitching prospects, one of whom may be MLB ready and the other who is no more than a year away.


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
#99

Posted: December 03, 2019, 8:29 AM Post
Posts: 620
As much as we would all hate to see Hader go, I do think this might be the best time to really capitalize on his trade value. If I'm Stearns though, I'm not trading him unless if I'm getting a haul in return. The guy has been the best relief pitcher in the NL (and arguably all of baseball) the past two seasons, and if you are going to trade him with 3 years of control left - you better get a lot back in return.

With that said - let's say we do find a trade partner for Hader. What then do we do with our relief core? We are currently in a competitive window right now, and losing a guy as unique and talented like Hader would hurt badly in those later innings. We've already lost Pomeranz, and we also have no idea what Knebel is going to look like in his return from injury this spring. I'm sure that DS isn't going to want to spend a ton of money on free agent relief pitchers, but I'd hate to go into next season relying on Knebel as our closer. Are there other good options out there?


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Offline  Re: Hader trade ideas
Posted: December 03, 2019, 8:31 AM Post
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You know the reason this is happening is because of 1day and Super 2 staus. Without it, the discussions arent happening. With another RP of the year type season in 2020, whats that dollar amount going to? 8-9mil? With 2more yrs of increasing salary to come.
After all the cuts yesterday there are options at 3b/1b. Gotta find a co_#1 with Eoodruff in the making. (Or I suppose with 2yrs of control)

Madtown to your comment-
Kneble, still have Burnes, Peralta all on bouncebacks in the RP roll from day could produce a solid finishing group. Peralta is really where Im going to fill Hader's departure. Another draft pick trade? If it got late and the team was looking barren in RP.


Last edited by brewcrewdue80 on December 03, 2019, 8:42 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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