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Nolan Arenado

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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#81

Posted: January 22, 2020, 3:31 PM Post
Posts: 5082
Location: Madison, WI
At some point they really do just have to buckle down and level the economics much close to what the NFL and NBA have done. It's kind of surprising it's gone on this long. The tax and all that is progress but they need to take one more big step at some point. IMO it shouldn't be that difficult assuming major changes don't need a unanimous approval (I don't the rules) but assuming majority or 2/3 vote only is needed it shouldn't be too hard to get the remaining 23ish teams to vote together to limit the power of the mega markets.


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#82

Posted: January 23, 2020, 7:30 AM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
At some point they really do just have to buckle down and level the economics much close to what the NFL and NBA have done. It's kind of surprising it's gone on this long. The tax and all that is progress but they need to take one more big step at some point. IMO it shouldn't be that difficult assuming major changes don't need a unanimous approval (I don't the rules) but assuming majority or 2/3 vote only is needed it shouldn't be too hard to get the remaining 23ish teams to vote together to limit the power of the mega markets.


Try convincing the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Cubs, etc. who believe that they carry the entire league (and really, they do) to go for that.

Especially considering they basically fund the A's/Rays/Marlins as those teams just sit on their pile of revenue sharing and if the rules changed, they'd maybe have to spend some of their money...


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#83

Posted: January 23, 2020, 12:53 PM Post
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Location: California
bill hAll Star said:
tmwiese55 said:
At some point they really do just have to buckle down and level the economics much close to what the NFL and NBA have done. It's kind of surprising it's gone on this long. The tax and all that is progress but they need to take one more big step at some point. IMO it shouldn't be that difficult assuming major changes don't need a unanimous approval (I don't the rules) but assuming majority or 2/3 vote only is needed it shouldn't be too hard to get the remaining 23ish teams to vote together to limit the power of the mega markets.


Try convincing the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Cubs, etc. who believe that they carry the entire league (and really, they do) to go for that.

Especially considering they basically fund the A's/Rays/Marlins as those teams just sit on their pile of revenue sharing and if the rules changed, they'd maybe have to spend some of their money...

This is also a major issue and MLB should focus on what to do about those organizations because they are ultimately impacting teams like the Brewers who are small market and constantly striving to win. It appears finding owners who like winning like Attanasio, even if it is at a possible sacrifice of some profit, is imperative.


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#84

Posted: January 23, 2020, 1:58 PM Post
Posts: 5082
Location: Madison, WI
bill hAll Star said:
tmwiese55 said:
At some point they really do just have to buckle down and level the economics much close to what the NFL and NBA have done. It's kind of surprising it's gone on this long. The tax and all that is progress but they need to take one more big step at some point. IMO it shouldn't be that difficult assuming major changes don't need a unanimous approval (I don't the rules) but assuming majority or 2/3 vote only is needed it shouldn't be too hard to get the remaining 23ish teams to vote together to limit the power of the mega markets.


Try convincing the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Cubs, etc. who believe that they carry the entire league (and really, they do) to go for that.

Especially considering they basically fund the A's/Rays/Marlins as those teams just sit on their pile of revenue sharing and if the rules changed, they'd maybe have to spend some of their money...


Well that's where I said the majority vote should be easy and really 2/3 should be easy too. There's like 5-6 megamarket teams that would have that attitude but the rest should be all together on balancing. If it requires unanimous vote then yea it's dead in the water, but I can't imagine it would. Every other league has mega markets too and they all agreed to or made to balance out for the betterment of the league and game. All I'm saying is it really shouldn't be difficult to get 20 teams to vote in favor of a more balanced system like the NFL and NBA.


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#85

Posted: January 23, 2020, 3:31 PM Post
Posts: 4767
Well for competitive balance take your 15markets split and have the top 15 have players exposed earning 5-14mil for example. Take a draft worst to 1st record wise. It'll be like Rule 5. So say Pitts takes a player from NY, NY can protect a player from the example range. NY would still be responsible for that players salary Pittsburgh picked. The 6yrs control still exists. Unless player is on contract the contract length exists. After the season NY having another year control or more are returned this picked player. All controlled players are returned to the top market teams for the next season. So rinse repeat. 1 round. 1 picked and paid for player. The draft would happen a week before winter meetings so all teams involved would now know where they stand payroll wise for upcoming season. Top markets who paid for their player drafted would have that payroll obligation not count on luxury tax. I'll have to come back after contract research for team fits and salary fits to be drafted.
Quick idea would be Milw drafting Corey Seager for the 2020 season. But I doubt he'd make it to Milw?

Just nix the competitive balance rewards in drafts and implement this. Rather than a crapshoot at teams coming out ahead in a draft pick, you are picking very good players for 1yr rental.


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#86

Posted: January 24, 2020, 1:42 PM Post
Posts: 12292
The equality of revenues in the NFL goes all the way back to the names like Halas in Chicago and Mara in New York who understood that the league was only as strong as it's weakest franchise. Baseball has always been run by owners who don't see beyond their self interest. That goes back to guys like Walter O'Malley, P.K.Wrigley etc. For all you Cub fans that like to brag how lovable your team is and how you can fill Miller Park, note that the franchise in Milwaukee would still be the Braves if not for the greed of guys like Wrigley and O'Malley. Wrigley went so far as recruiting young Chicago businessmen who were his neighbors to buy the Braves and remove them from nearby Milwaukee (only after they first tried to wrest control of the White Sox and get them out of Chicago). I've long since given up hope for an equal playing field. I only celebrate baseball championships won by lower revenue teams. The others won by the big boys are simply lesser achievements. It's like a high school that has an enrollment of 3,000 dominating conferences with schools with enrollments of 1,500. It's just not impressive.


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#87

Posted: January 29, 2020, 4:04 PM Post
Posts: 324
The Cubs and Rockies have discussed a Bryant-Arenado 1 for 1 swap now that Bryant’s grievance is settled with Colorado paying $6-8 million a year. And Passan says Arenado would love to be a Cub..... don’t know how I feel about that. Think it would be pretty fair and don’t know if it makes the Cubs much better. They also are stuck with a potentially much larger commitment for a guy that’s almost 30.


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#88

Posted: January 30, 2020, 3:02 AM Post
Posts: 729
CrewFanBrewMan69 said:
The Cubs and Rockies have discussed a Bryant-Arenado 1 for 1 swap now that Bryant’s grievance is settled with Colorado paying $6-8 million a year. And Passan says Arenado would love to be a Cub..... don’t know how I feel about that. Think it would be pretty fair and don’t know if it makes the Cubs much better. They also are stuck with a potentially much larger commitment for a guy that’s almost 30.


What sense would such a trade make? The Cubs get a guy owed a huge amount of money (pushing them in lux. tax territory that they are desperately trying to avoid) who will be gone in two years. The Rockies get a little salary relief (about $8M the first year and less the second) but Bryant is also gone in two years.


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#89

Posted: January 30, 2020, 3:29 AM Post
Posts: 2807
JohnBriggs12 said:
The equality of revenues in the NFL goes all the way back to the names like Halas in Chicago and Mara in New York who understood that the league was only as strong as it's weakest franchise. Baseball has always been run by owners who don't see beyond their self interest. That goes back to guys like Walter O'Malley, P.K.Wrigley etc. For all you Cub fans that like to brag how lovable your team is and how you can fill Miller Park, note that the franchise in Milwaukee would still be the Braves if not for the greed of guys like Wrigley and O'Malley. Wrigley went so far as recruiting young Chicago businessmen who were his neighbors to buy the Braves and remove them from nearby Milwaukee (only after they first tried to wrest control of the White Sox and get them out of Chicago). I've long since given up hope for an equal playing field. I only celebrate baseball championships won by lower revenue teams. The others won by the big boys are simply lesser achievements. It's like a high school that has an enrollment of 3,000 dominating conferences with schools with enrollments of 1,500. It's just not impressive.


This is very true for me as well. I honestly think any title is fine as long as its not the Dodgers Yankees Red Sox or Cubs. (I was ok with the 1st one because no one should lose forever but them flopping after that one has been fantastic) Nats and Astros have been a small victory. Astros not so much in retrospect. Even they are top 10 spenders but at least they aren't top 4.

I'm happy to root for a mid market team. I grumble about a few choices and a few passes but I'm not one to expect a 150mil payroll and I'm happy that my team has to beat the odds because if we actually won one it would be incredibly sweet.

You look at these 200 mil teams and, personally, I actually laugh at them for losing. You can take MKEs team and add 4 Cole/Rendon level players and you still can't win? It's embarassing for them. They must be run miserably. I think I've been an in the shadows Rays fan for years because I want to see them send NYY and Boston home.

The NFL model is the best though. If you hired a great GM and a rising coach any team in that entire league could be a SB contender in 4 years. Even Cincy.


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#90

Posted: January 30, 2020, 6:00 AM Post
Posts: 1430
wntrtxn21 said:
CrewFanBrewMan69 said:
The Cubs and Rockies have discussed a Bryant-Arenado 1 for 1 swap now that Bryant’s grievance is settled with Colorado paying $6-8 million a year. And Passan says Arenado would love to be a Cub..... don’t know how I feel about that. Think it would be pretty fair and don’t know if it makes the Cubs much better. They also are stuck with a potentially much larger commitment for a guy that’s almost 30.


What sense would such a trade make? The Cubs get a guy owed a huge amount of money (pushing them in lux. tax territory that they are desperately trying to avoid) who will be gone in two years. The Rockies get a little salary relief (about $8M the first year and less the second) but Bryant is also gone in two years.


WTS is Arenado loves CHICAGO and would not opt out.


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#91

Posted: January 30, 2020, 12:25 PM Post
Posts: 324
wntrtxn21 said:
CrewFanBrewMan69 said:
The Cubs and Rockies have discussed a Bryant-Arenado 1 for 1 swap now that Bryant’s grievance is settled with Colorado paying $6-8 million a year. And Passan says Arenado would love to be a Cub..... don’t know how I feel about that. Think it would be pretty fair and don’t know if it makes the Cubs much better. They also are stuck with a potentially much larger commitment for a guy that’s almost 30.


What sense would such a trade make? The Cubs get a guy owed a huge amount of money (pushing them in lux. tax territory that they are desperately trying to avoid) who will be gone in two years. The Rockies get a little salary relief (about $8M the first year and less the second) but Bryant is also gone in two years.

I’m guessing the sense would be you’re locking in a star 3B for longer when they haven’t been able to with Bryant and you’re getting him for a likely cheaper price than Bryant will cost (assuming the $6-8 million thing is true). Arenado wouldn’t opt out, apparently, if traded to Chicago. Arenado has also been more steady, healthy and valuable recently. Though if health is equal I think Bryant is a little better. Arenado seems like the safer long term bet though.


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#92

Posted: February 03, 2020, 9:18 AM Post
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Location: California
Let's say the Rockies would accept Turang and Ashby for Arenado if the Brewers were to take on the entire remaining contract (7 years, $224m). Two questions:

1. Is it worth it for the Brewers to take this trade, given the likelihood Arenado will opt out after 2021? The Brewers would pay Arenado 2 years $70 million, keep him in this competitive window, and take the risk he doesn't opt out.
2. Should the Brewers make this type of deal to supplement Yelich prior to his impending FA after 2022? The farm system is already ranked 30th in a lot of publications. If they can use that farm system to acquire another elite, albeit highly paid, talent, does it make sense?

In my mind, the Brewers system won't allow for them to acquire the TOR arm, so why not load up on O even if it means taking on an enormous deal.


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Online  Re: Nolan Arenado
#93

Posted: February 03, 2020, 9:26 AM Post
Posts: 20211
Warning Track Power said:
Let's say the Rockies would accept Turang and Ashby for Arenado if the Brewers were to take on the entire remaining contract (7 years, $224m). Two questions:

1. Is it worth it for the Brewers to take this trade, given the likelihood Arenado will opt out after 2021? The Brewers would pay Arenado 2 years $70 million, keep him in this competitive window, and take the risk he doesn't opt out.
2. Should the Brewers make this type of deal to supplement Yelich prior to his impending FA after 2022? The farm system is already ranked 30th in a lot of publications. If they can use that farm system to acquire another elite, albeit highly paid, talent, does it make sense?

In my mind, the Brewers system won't allow for them to acquire the TOR arm, so why not load up on O even if it means taking on an enormous deal.


This is basically doing the Anthony Rendon contract only also giving up our best prospects to do it. It's just not happening.


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#94

Posted: February 03, 2020, 9:31 AM Post
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Location: California
adambr2 said:
Warning Track Power said:
Let's say the Rockies would accept Turang and Ashby for Arenado if the Brewers were to take on the entire remaining contract (7 years, $224m). Two questions:

1. Is it worth it for the Brewers to take this trade, given the likelihood Arenado will opt out after 2021? The Brewers would pay Arenado 2 years $70 million, keep him in this competitive window, and take the risk he doesn't opt out.
2. Should the Brewers make this type of deal to supplement Yelich prior to his impending FA after 2022? The farm system is already ranked 30th in a lot of publications. If they can use that farm system to acquire another elite, albeit highly paid, talent, does it make sense?

In my mind, the Brewers system won't allow for them to acquire the TOR arm, so why not load up on O even if it means taking on an enormous deal.


This is basically doing the Anthony Rendon contract only also giving up our best prospects to do it. It's just not happening.

While unlikely I know, my thought on the matter is that the Brewers aren't likely to attract this type of talent via FA so they need to be acquired via trade. Losing top prospects from a gutted system would certainly stink but put another way, how pumped would we all be to have signed Arenado or Rendon to a 7 years $224 million contract, even if it did have an opt-out after year 2?


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#95

Posted: February 03, 2020, 12:43 PM Post
Posts: 4975
Warning Track Power said:
Let's say the Rockies would accept Turang and Ashby for Arenado if the Brewers were to take on the entire remaining contract (7 years, $224m). Two questions:

1. Is it worth it for the Brewers to take this trade, given the likelihood Arenado will opt out after 2021? The Brewers would pay Arenado 2 years $70 million, keep him in this competitive window, and take the risk he doesn't opt out.
2. Should the Brewers make this type of deal to supplement Yelich prior to his impending FA after 2022? The farm system is already ranked 30th in a lot of publications. If they can use that farm system to acquire another elite, albeit highly paid, talent, does it make sense?

In my mind, the Brewers system won't allow for them to acquire the TOR arm, so why not load up on O even if it means taking on an enormous deal.


1. For Turang and Ashby? Yes, it would. It would be a bear on the payroll side, but there are enough young arms in the system to get by those two years. Arcia gets DFAed for the 40-man spot, but that's OK.

ss: Urias
2b: Hiura
lf: Yelich
3b: Arenado
c: Narvaez
rf: Garcia
1b: Smoak/Braun
cf: Cain
bench: Pina, Sogard, Gyorko, Gamel, Smoak/Braun
rotation: Woodruff, Lindblom, B. Anderson, Houser, Lauer
bullpen: Hader, Knebel, Peralta, Suter, Claudio, Rasmussen, Andrews, Yardley

That is the favorite to win the NL Central in 2020.

For 2021, pick up Braun's mutual option, and it looks like this:

ss: Urias
2b: Hiura
lf: Yelich
3b: Arenado
c: Narvaez
rf: Garcia
1b: Braun
cf: Cain
bench: Pina, Sogard, Wilson, Hummel, Taylor
rotation: Woodruff, Houser, Lauer, Lindblom, File
bullpen: Hader, Knebel, Suter, Peralta, Burnes, Rasmussen, QTC, Andrews

Still a contender.


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Online  Re: Nolan Arenado
#96

Posted: February 03, 2020, 12:48 PM Post
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Posts: 374
clancyphile said:
Warning Track Power said:
Let's say the Rockies would accept Turang and Ashby for Arenado if the Brewers were to take on the entire remaining contract (7 years, $224m). Two questions:

1. Is it worth it for the Brewers to take this trade, given the likelihood Arenado will opt out after 2021? The Brewers would pay Arenado 2 years $70 million, keep him in this competitive window, and take the risk he doesn't opt out.
2. Should the Brewers make this type of deal to supplement Yelich prior to his impending FA after 2022? The farm system is already ranked 30th in a lot of publications. If they can use that farm system to acquire another elite, albeit highly paid, talent, does it make sense?

In my mind, the Brewers system won't allow for them to acquire the TOR arm, so why not load up on O even if it means taking on an enormous deal.


1. For Turang and Ashby? Yes, it would. It would be a bear on the payroll side, but there are enough young arms in the system to get by those two years. Arcia gets DFAed for the 40-man spot, but that's OK.

ss: Urias
2b: Hiura
lf: Yelich
3b: Arenado
c: Narvaez
rf: Garcia
1b: Smoak/Braun
cf: Cain
bench: Pina, Sogard, Gyorko, Gamel, Smoak/Braun
rotation: Woodruff, Lindblom, B. Anderson, Houser, Lauer
bullpen: Hader, Knebel, Peralta, Suter, Claudio, Rasmussen, Andrews, Yardley

That is the favorite to win the NL Central in 2020.


Clancy, come on man. I know your new love affair is with Andrews, but while there is more than a 0% chance he sees big league innings this year, it isn't much higher than that. Rasmussen stands a better shot, but it is still probably slim. Yardley might be next on the DFA list, as he's out of options. You are missing Phelps and Black as well, who are projected to have big pen roles.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#97

Posted: February 03, 2020, 1:25 PM Post
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Posts: 2785
adambr2 said:
Warning Track Power said:
Let's say the Rockies would accept Turang and Ashby for Arenado if the Brewers were to take on the entire remaining contract (7 years, $224m). Two questions:

1. Is it worth it for the Brewers to take this trade, given the likelihood Arenado will opt out after 2021? The Brewers would pay Arenado 2 years $70 million, keep him in this competitive window, and take the risk he doesn't opt out.
2. Should the Brewers make this type of deal to supplement Yelich prior to his impending FA after 2022? The farm system is already ranked 30th in a lot of publications. If they can use that farm system to acquire another elite, albeit highly paid, talent, does it make sense?

In my mind, the Brewers system won't allow for them to acquire the TOR arm, so why not load up on O even if it means taking on an enormous deal.


This is basically doing the Anthony Rendon contract only also giving up our best prospects to do it. It's just not happening.


Neither of those prospects are supposed to be all that great.

It's unlikely that this move would ever happen but if it was available...sign me up. Sure, I'd rather have just signed Rendon and only given up a comp pick, but if the price to getting a star player was, "OK, also throw in these likely lower-ceiling prospects" I'd be OK with it.

Depends on one's opinion of Turang, of course. I can't really see projecting him to be a star but if you're certain he's going to be a 50+ guy, then maybe I'd think twice.


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#98

Posted: February 03, 2020, 1:28 PM Post
Posts: 3919
I’d be all for the Brewers taking on Arenado’s contract, absolutely. Chances are, Mark won’t want to do that though...

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
#99

Posted: February 13, 2020, 12:37 PM Post
Posts: 653
I see a report out today that the Cubs are highly motivated to work out a deal with the Rockies to get Arenado - in exchange for Bryant and a prospect. Ugh....if that actually materializes. I would imagine that the Cubs would need Nolen to waive his opt-out clause in his contract that comes up in a couple of years to make this type of a move.

If this happens, I guess we just have to hope that his numbers take a dip when he doesn't get to play 1/2 his games in the thin air of Colorado.


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Offline  Re: Nolan Arenado
Posted: February 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Post
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Posts: 3416
Location: California
madtownhawk said:
I see a report out today that the Cubs are highly motivated to work out a deal with the Rockies to get Arenado - in exchange for Bryant and a prospect. Ugh....if that actually materializes. I would imagine that the Cubs would need Nolen to waive his opt-out clause in his contract that comes up in a couple of years to make this type of a move.

If this happens, I guess we just have to hope that his numbers take a dip when he doesn't get to play 1/2 his games in the thin air of Colorado.

If this were to happen, Stearns should be on the phone with Colorado and asking what it would take to get Bryant. That roster is not ready to win now, Bryant is only under contract until after 2021, and Colorado trading Arenado for Bryant would, in my opinion, be motivated only to get out of Arenado's contract.


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