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Dealing Ben Gamel

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Offline  Re: Dealing Ben Gamel
#21

Posted: February 25, 2020, 2:04 PM Post
Posts: 753
RollieTime said:
MrTPlush said:
Avisail Garcia - 117 games played
Ryan Braun - 124 games played (36 years old)
Lorenzo Cain - 148 games played (34 years old)

Not hard to figure out why they brought Ben Gamel back. Mind you the above is games played, not starts. A very healthy Braun (for his present standards) played 144 games, but started only 113 games and many of those he got pulled early from last year. Keon Broxton is terrible with the bat and Tyrone Taylor would likely be pretty terrible too. You don't trade away a valuable veteran depth piece that can swing that bat a bit for little to nothing.

He makes a ton of sense for this team and when one of our ancient/injury prone OFers goes down we will be blessed Ben Gamel is around.


This is also why I was advocating for an additional OF add. Braun will need 50 games off while also playing half his games at first, Cain and Yelich will both get 15 games off. Garcia won’t play everyday either. That’s not even including injuries. I would much rather have another solid bat that can start 100 games than Gamel personally. But I do agree that at this point, we need to retain Gamel as he is most likely the next guy up in the pecking order.


Holt can play a very credible corner OF spot with Gyorko going to 3B. Plus Smoak at 1B with Braun in OF is also in the cards I'm sure. CC has plenty of options if injuries hit or guys need time off.


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Offline  Re: Dealing Ben Gamel
#22

Posted: February 25, 2020, 9:24 PM Post
Posts: 2866
RollieTime said:
MrTPlush said:
Avisail Garcia - 117 games played
Ryan Braun - 124 games played (36 years old)
Lorenzo Cain - 148 games played (34 years old)

Not hard to figure out why they brought Ben Gamel back. Mind you the above is games played, not starts. A very healthy Braun (for his present standards) played 144 games, but started only 113 games and many of those he got pulled early from last year. Keon Broxton is terrible with the bat and Tyrone Taylor would likely be pretty terrible too. You don't trade away a valuable veteran depth piece that can swing that bat a bit for little to nothing.

He makes a ton of sense for this team and when one of our ancient/injury prone OFers goes down we will be blessed Ben Gamel is around.


This is also why I was advocating for an additional OF add. Braun will need 50 games off while also playing half his games at first, Cain and Yelich will both get 15 games off. Garcia won’t play everyday either. That’s not even including injuries. I would much rather have another solid bat that can start 100 games than Gamel personally. But I do agree that at this point, we need to retain Gamel as he is most likely the next guy up in the pecking order.


If
Yelich starts 140 games (22 off)
Cain starts 130 games (32 off)
Garcia starts 120 games (42 off)
Braun starts 110 games

You have 14 surplus OF starts minus every start Braun has a 1b. Gyorko and Holt can also play 1st.
Gamel started 66 games last year. His platoon makes it so that all 4 options out hit him vs LHP and RHP.

Do you want to start Gamel over Sogard or Urias? I don't want Gamel starting over Gyorko or Holt because they split well.


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Offline  Re: Dealing Ben Gamel
#23

Posted: February 26, 2020, 2:16 AM Post
Posts: 4947
The team dealt Grisham who I figured would make the most likely CF replacement to Cain. Gamel is the #2 CF. He only had 65 starts last season. Gamel has the option. 100% he is on the Brewers for this season. But some of that may be in the minors. I would wonder on Holt playing a Corner OF at times with Avisail Garcia as Backup for Cain in CF and Gamel optioned down to the minors. This would be more of, expect a Garcia/Braun, Cain, Yelich OF split, and if Cain happens to go down to injury, Garcia moves to CF, and Holt or Braun replaces Garcia's OF spot. Think of it this way. Braun is having his last season with the team. Using Gamel's option this year won't matter so much next season as he can replace Braun as the OF. Next up well, I'd think is Corey Ray for the Optional OF role in 2021.
This reasoning makes it out to be dealing Gamel, isn't in the cards for the next 2 seasons. 2seasons from now will bring to us the 1year remaining on Yelich/Cain, gone will be Holt, Garcia, Kneble, Smoak, Sogard, Pina, Claudio, and Phelps.

Stearns would be set up prime for a tear it down rebuild 2021-22 offseason. Depending on how Gamel had played in 2021 he may have more value then, than he has now.


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Offline  Re: Dealing Ben Gamel
#24

Posted: February 26, 2020, 4:03 AM Post
Posts: 2866
Even though I just pointed to Holt being capable of 1b, I read your post about Holt in the OF and it dawned on me.

Vs RHP our only quality 3b is Holt. He is going to be there every single game vs a RHP starter. The only time he could sub into the OF is vs a LHP starter where he's not at his best. It's possible but it doesn't make a lot of sense to play him in the OF vs a LHP starter. Nor does it make any sense to play him in the OF in that situation.

The only way Gyorko moves over to 1st is if Urias is at SS pushing Sogard to 3rd. I'll be really disappointed if they have this much split material and don't heavily lean into those platoons.

Gamel still doesn't fit. Garcia plays CF acceptably. Gamel plays CF acceptably. Not that Broxton is better but at least he has plus tools we can work in to our benefit.


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Offline  Re: Dealing Ben Gamel
#25

Posted: February 26, 2020, 6:17 AM Post
Posts: 4947
TJseven7 said:
Even though I just pointed to Holt being capable of 1b, I read your post about Holt in the OF and it dawned on me.

Vs RHP our only quality 3b is Holt. He is going to be there every single game vs a RHP starter. The only time he could sub into the OF is vs a LHP starter where he's not at his best. It's possible but it doesn't make a lot of sense to play him in the OF vs a LHP starter. Nor does it make any sense to play him in the OF in that situation.

The only way Gyorko moves over to 1st is if Urias is at SS pushing Sogard to 3rd. I'll be really disappointed if they have this much split material and don't heavily lean into those platoons.

Gamel still doesn't fit. Garcia plays CF acceptably. Gamel plays CF acceptably. Not that Broxton is better but at least he has plus tools we can work in to our benefit.


The thought would be that Urias is healthy and playing. Sogard would be the Lefty portion on the 3b. And really it's not an everyday lineup. It's the way to just play around your roster with Gamel in the minors having been optioned. Holt would be the 5th OF with Garcia backing up Cain. Braun/Holt backups on Garcia/Yelich in corners. for however long they had to deal with Gamel down in the minors to be recalled. Obviously, if it were to a DL it'd just be a game or 2. But say an IF injury occured and Holt doesn't mix for an OF backup, they may call up Taylor or Ray briefly before calling back up Gamel when he was able to be. You're really looking at 2 Perez on the team with Holt/Sogard and probably even Urias when Healthy.

Pretty much way to some it up, the team may not have the biggest need for Gamel in 2020, but that need may be more in 2021. Say Ray or even Taylor were used for a mid-season trade, you'd still have Gamel post-Braun.


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Offline  Re: Dealing Ben Gamel
#26

Posted: February 26, 2020, 2:15 PM Post
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Posts: 2805
TJseven7 said:
Even though I just pointed to Holt being capable of 1b, I read your post about Holt in the OF and it dawned on me.

Vs RHP our only quality 3b is Holt. He is going to be there every single game vs a RHP starter. The only time he could sub into the OF is vs a LHP starter where he's not at his best. It's possible but it doesn't make a lot of sense to play him in the OF vs a LHP starter. Nor does it make any sense to play him in the OF in that situation.

The only way Gyorko moves over to 1st is if Urias is at SS pushing Sogard to 3rd. I'll be really disappointed if they have this much split material and don't heavily lean into those platoons.

Gamel still doesn't fit. Garcia plays CF acceptably. Gamel plays CF acceptably. Not that Broxton is better but at least he has plus tools we can work in to our benefit.


If we are to assume that we are getting "good Sogard," he has been fine against RHP in his 2017 and 2019 runs.


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Offline  Re: Dealing Ben Gamel
#27

Posted: March 02, 2020, 12:02 PM Post
Posts: 2116
TJseven7 said:

I'll be really disappointed if they have this much split material and don't heavily lean into those platoons.



I agree. However, I am leery - has CC ever done a strict platoon at any point in time? I'm old and maybe I am forgetting something.


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Offline  Re: Dealing Ben Gamel
#28

Posted: March 02, 2020, 12:07 PM Post
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Roderick said:
TJseven7 said:

I'll be really disappointed if they have this much split material and don't heavily lean into those platoons.



I agree. However, I am leery - has CC ever done a strict platoon at any point in time? I'm old and maybe I am forgetting something.


Thames/Aguilar was until Aguilar busted through the doors.

I'm sure there are others from his first year that I'm forgetting but generally you end up with things like Shaw platooning all around the diamond.

Asking a forward-thinking team like the Brewers to use the data and do platoons is like asking me to eat this delicious sandwich that you've given me for free and put 2 foot away from my face. Of course I will.

The Brewers will absolutely platoon but it will be shifting guys all around the diamond and also getting guys rest. There may not be many strict, "this is our 3B against lefties, this is our 3B against righties" type of thing. They may also use more variables. "This guy is good at hitting splitters and righties so he's playing 3B today against the righty splitter thrower."


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