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Burnes to White Sox rumors

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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#21

Posted: January 20, 2021, 12:21 PM Post
Posts: 1479
wntrtxn21 said:
Eye Black said:
wntrtxn21 said:
Vaughn is barely out of rookie ball and 3-4 years away, if ever.

Andrew Vaughn turns 23 in April and is ranked as a top 15-30 prospect in baseball (#21 in Baseball America’s Top 100 released earlier this week). He would’ve most likely started 2020 at Double-A had there been an MiLB season. He could be in the majors as soon as this coming season, but should certainly be there no later than 2022 (next season).


I just don't share the enthusiasm for Vaughn. .253 at A and .252/.349 at A+... He hasn't seen AA yet much less AAA pitching. If the Brewers were going to get a highly questionable pitcher, I'd want a more polished and MLB ready prospect for Hader.


It was A+ in the same year he was drafted. He put up a 122 wRC+ in A+ in his draft year. He has a 12.7% walk rate and a 13.5% strikeout rate too. When you leave out the slugging from your stat lines (As you always do, for some reason) you miss out what players can do. Any particular reason why you left out the .388 OBP in A-ball, but including it for the A+ stats?


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#22

Posted: January 20, 2021, 1:04 PM Post
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I really dont want this to be true at all. Makes no sense to trade young, controllable starting pitching. Burnes has a chance to see his value sky rocket


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#23

Posted: January 20, 2021, 1:30 PM Post
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I guess I could see the Brewers selling high on Burnes but it seems very unlikely. We all know how hard it is to develop elite starting pitching and if we trade Burnes then we’re left with Woodruff and a bunch of question marks in the starting rotation. That and inept offense would make for a very long season.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#24

Posted: January 20, 2021, 1:42 PM Post
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I will be totally bummed if this went down the Crew finally now have two young arms would can build their staff around.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#25

Posted: January 21, 2021, 12:38 PM Post
Posts: 1720
Location: Washburn, WI
The Blue Jays always seem interested in acquiring pitching, what about spinning a deal with them? Looks like they might be starting to go for it with the signing of Springer. The Jays can then go out and sign another bat to replace what they trade away.

Blue Jays Receive:
RHP Corbin Burnes

Brewers Receive:
2B/3B Cavan Biggio
1B Rowdy Tellez
RHP Simeon Woods Richardson

The Brewers get long term solutions at first and third or second with the option of trading Hiura or moving him to a new position. They also get a high upside arm that’s in the top 100 that could probably start in AA and might see MLB time by year’s end in 2021.

3B Biggio (L)
CF Cain (R)
LF Yelich (L)
2B Hiura (R)
1B Tellez (L)
RF Garcia (R)
C Narvaez (L)
SS Arcia/Urias (R)
P

That could be a pretty dang good lineup. The rotation would certainly need some help though.

Edit to add I certainly wouldn’t be opposed to taking a step back this season if we are having a lower payroll anyway. Get some young guys on the team, let guys like Woods Richardson, Kelly, Small, File, and Bettinger develop and get a shot in the bigs, and go for it again in 2022.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#26

Posted: January 21, 2021, 12:56 PM Post
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RollieTime said:
The Blue Jays always seem interested in acquiring pitching, what about spinning a deal with them? Looks like they might be starting to go for it with the signing of Springer. The Jays can then go out and sign another bat to replace what they trade away.

Blue Jays Receive:
RHP Corbin Burnes

Brewers Receive:
2B/3B Cavan Biggio
1B Rowdy Tellez
RHP Simeon Woods Richardson

The Brewers get long term solutions at first and third or second with the option of trading Hiura or moving him to a new position. They also get a high upside arm that’s in the top 100 that could probably start in AA and might see MLB time by year’s end in 2021.

3B Biggio (L)
CF Cain (R)
LF Yelich (L)
2B Hiura (R)
1B Tellez (L)
RF Garcia (R)
C Narvaez (L)
SS Arcia/Urias (R)
P

That could be a pretty dang good lineup. The rotation would certainly need some help though.

Edit to add I certainly wouldn’t be opposed to taking a step back this season if we are having a lower payroll anyway. Get some young guys on the team, let guys like Woods Richardson, Kelly, Small, File, and Bettinger develop and get a shot in the bigs, and go for it again in 2022.


Tellez and Vogelbach are pretty similar type hitters. Tellez is better defensively, but not substantially. Both are guys you'd want to avoid playing at 1B if you have a better defensive option.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#27

Posted: January 21, 2021, 1:46 PM Post
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
RollieTime said:
The Blue Jays always seem interested in acquiring pitching, what about spinning a deal with them? Looks like they might be starting to go for it with the signing of Springer. The Jays can then go out and sign another bat to replace what they trade away.

Blue Jays Receive:
RHP Corbin Burnes

Brewers Receive:
2B/3B Cavan Biggio
1B Rowdy Tellez
RHP Simeon Woods Richardson

The Brewers get long term solutions at first and third or second with the option of trading Hiura or moving him to a new position. They also get a high upside arm that’s in the top 100 that could probably start in AA and might see MLB time by year’s end in 2021.



I don't think the Blue Jays make this trade. If they are going to make a trade for someone like Burnes it will be for all prospects versus someone already on their roster. Maybe the Blue Jays do a trade that the Brewers did for Greinke but I think they would be looking at receiving a replacement for who they are losing especially since they are losing two players on their MLB roster. I think something like SS Groshans, RHP Woods Richardson, 3B Hiraldo and 3B Smith would be something the Blue Jays would accept. I don't believe they would include Biggio at all in a deal for Burnes and would instead build it around prospects.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#28

Posted: January 21, 2021, 3:58 PM Post
Posts: 1399
Just read on Twitter that as of Tuesday afternoon, this so called source said Burnes to White Sox rumors were picking up and moving close to a deal.

I HOPE TO HELL THESE RUMORS ARE 100% BS!!!! We need to build our staff around Woody, Burnes, Williams and Hader.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#29

Posted: January 21, 2021, 4:07 PM Post
Posts: 6388
Location: New Berlin, WI
Wow, I just spent way too much time trolling through twitter/reddit/white sox boards. What a waste of minutes of my life. The primary "leaks" from wannabe twitter insiders seem to be a trade centered around madrigal or vaughn with a few other top 10 types included. Madrigal only makes sense if we've completely given up on hiura's defense at 2b, or if a third team gets included that takes madrigal for a position that's a better fit for us. Vaughn of course would be a good fit, but then you're talking about trading a 25 year old cy young finalist with 4 years of team control for an undersized rh 1b only. I just can't see Stearns doing that, Vaughn is basically the completely opposite of a Stearns guy.

The closest comparable trade I can find is actually the Chris Sale trade. Sale was much more established at the time, had 3 years of control, and was 27. It's safe to say Sale had more established value while Burnes clearly has the higher ceiling/ability to accumulate the most WAR/$ and probably WAR/season. Considering the differences, Sale netted Moncada and Kopech and 2 other pieces. Moncada was literally the number 1 prospect in baseball at the time, and Kopech had an arm to drool over and just got done wrecking high A at age 20. It looks like pipeline had him 30th overall to end 2016 season. Vaughn currently ranks the number 11 prospect and Madrigal the number 30 prospect in baseball according to pipeline. I get that prospect lists are not how teams value players, but based on these listings...I think it's pretty easy to see the packages being discussed are much lower for Burnes in comparison to Sale. Also worth noting, i think most would generally agree that the Sale trade ended up being a win for both sides.

My hunch is this is just nonsense and gets nowhere close to happening. If it does, I'd bet heavily that we have 2 serious headliners in the trade similar to the Sale trade. My guess would be Vaughn and a pitcher(Cease/Kopech). If that's the offer, I think I prefer to keep the 25 year old cy young favorite.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#30

Posted: January 21, 2021, 4:26 PM Post
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Totally agree sounds like someone just throwing out names to get it read.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#31

Posted: January 21, 2021, 4:52 PM Post
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Sounds like HighHeat moved over to the White Sox message boards.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#32

Posted: January 21, 2021, 5:09 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
The closest comparable trade I can find is actually the Chris Sale trade. Sale was much more established at the time, had 3 years of control, and was 27.

Shelby Miller had an arguably better and longer track record at the time of his trade to the Diamondbacks (than Burnes does currently), but he was 25 years old and had 3 years of control remaining when the trade occurred (Burnes is 26 and has 4 years of control).

Edit: Shelby Miller was also initially traded by the Cardinals at age 24 (and four years of control) for a return that primarily included one season of Jason Heyward.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#33

Posted: January 21, 2021, 7:56 PM Post
Posts: 188
I have as high of hopes for Burnes as anyone but considering him an "ace" based on 2018 where he was used as a relief pitcher, 2019 where nothing went right and a 9 start 2020 seems a bit hopeful. If a good package is offered I think you have to listen as we really aren't sure who CB really is.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#34

Posted: January 21, 2021, 8:22 PM Post
Posts: 26766
Soupbone said:
I have as high of hopes for Burnes as anyone but considering him an "ace" based on 2018 where he was used as a relief pitcher, 2019 where nothing went right and a 9 start 2020 seems a bit hopeful. If a good package is offered I think you have to listen as we really aren't sure who CB really is.


I'm always open to listening on any player but I'm absolutely pricing him to any interested party as a young, controllable ace. It isn't like he had a smoke and mirrors type breakout. We always knew he had the stuff and potential to be this guy.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#35

Posted: January 21, 2021, 9:23 PM Post
Posts: 6388
Location: New Berlin, WI
Eye Black said:
KeithStone53151 said:
The closest comparable trade I can find is actually the Chris Sale trade. Sale was much more established at the time, had 3 years of control, and was 27.

Shelby Miller had an arguably better and longer track record at the time of his trade to the Diamondbacks (than Burnes does currently), but he was 25 years old and had 3 years of control remaining when the trade occurred (Burnes is 26 and has 4 years of control).

Edit: Shelby Miller was also initially traded by the Cardinals at age 24 (and four years of control) for a return that primarily included one season of Jason Heyward.


Good call, also note Miller was traded from the Braves to the Dbacks for quite a haul. I know the haul included Dansby swanson. So i guess those 3 trades. I'll note though, Miller's stuff was not as good as what Burnes is currently throwing. Stuff does matter. Burnes stuff is closer to the caliber of Sale than Miller.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#36

Posted: January 22, 2021, 7:39 AM Post
Posts: 1399
And I was watching a podcast last night regarding this rumor... The White Sox dude that they were giving up too much in the trade... Too much??????? Good one!

Rumored trade is Burnes and Narvaez to Sox... Madrigal, Zach Collins, Cody Heuer and Jared Kelley to Brewers.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#37

Posted: January 22, 2021, 7:51 AM Post
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I will absolutely puke all over my keyboard if Burnes is traded.

So many years of trotting out garbage to the mound and unable to grow any pitchers in the farm, now we finally have Woodruff and Burnes and we might trade one?

*gag*

I am going to talk myself into believing this will never happen...

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#38

Posted: January 22, 2021, 8:06 AM Post
Posts: 1399
turborickey said:
I will absolutely puke all over my keyboard if Burnes is traded.

So many years of trotting out garbage to the mound and unable to grow any pitchers in the farm, now we finally have Woodruff and Burnes and we might trade one?

*gag*

I am going to talk myself into believing this will never happen...


Totally agree, I love Burnes we need to keep him and Woodruff together as long as we can.

I just don't believe any of the rumor, we have no need for Madrigal, Collins is garbage, Heuer would be nice in our pen but our pen is already loaded, Kelley is just a prospect.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#39

Posted: January 22, 2021, 8:25 AM Post
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The conversation doesn’t even start for me unless Vaughn is included and even then, I would be very hesitant to trade Burnes.


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Offline  Re: Burnes to White Sox rumors
#40

Posted: January 22, 2021, 10:15 AM Post
Posts: 2627
Location: Madison, WI
wibadgers23 said:
The conversation doesn’t even start for me unless Vaughn is included and even then, I would be very hesitant to trade Burnes.


I agree. I am a big fan of Madrigal but he doesn't make any sense when looking at the Brewer's roster. When matching up the Brewer's needs with what the White Sox have to offer, it seems like Vaughn is the one necessary piece needed to get a deal done.

For the record, I'm not in favor of trading Burnes but, as a small market team, I don't believe there is ever a situation where a player is just automatically removed from the table. If the offer is right, trading Burnes could be a big benefit to the team depending on what Burnes does in the future and the return from a trade partner. As good as Burnes was last year, just two years ago he was so bad that he was getting shelled in AAA. Maybe he's turned the corner, but maybe not. I'm not in favor of trading him, but if it would happen it could very well be the case of Stearns hitting the jackpot and selling Burnes when he had reached his top peak value. Nobody know for sure what the future holds.

I don't think there is enough credibility to these rumors to make me want to crank surplus values on rumored names involved. But just looking at the baseballtradevalues site-

White Sox get-
RHP-Corbin Burnes
Brewers get-
1B-Andrew Vaughn
RHP-Codi Heuer
RHP-Jared Kelley
+ one more prospect, likely in the 15-30 area of the White Sox top prospect list

If Vaughn turns into a legitimate plus MLB everyday player, it's very likely this would be a good deal for Milwaukee because you are getting 6 years (3 cheap) of an everyday plus starting lineup regular versus 4 years (1 cheap) of a potentially star starting pitcher. So the quality you would lose from Burnes would likely be made up by the two extra cheap years of the everyday player. Add in that you get a relief pitcher that has been pretty much dominant since changing his release point and pretty much owned major league hitters last year. Then you get the White Sox second round pick who has big, big upside (probably grades a big higher than Antoine Kelly and would likely land on most Brewer top prospect lists at #4). And then there would probably be a fourth piece, probably a high upside youngster that hasn't gotten past rookie ball yet. Sometimes I just laugh the combinations that can be achieved using the baseballtradevalues site, but this one doesn't seem at that ridiculous at face value.

Personally, I wouldn't be in favor of that deal, but wouldn't be moaning and groaning if that deal was made. That is a trade that seems to make pretty good sense for the Brewers.


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