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Jose Ramirez

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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#21

Posted: February 03, 2021, 3:09 PM Post
Posts: 109
wallus said:
I mentioned it in the other thread but I would do a 3 team trade with Hader going for prospects, Hiura to Cleveland and Ramirez plus the prospects we got for Hader going to Cleveland.

Ramirez would make our lineup much better and fills a need (with no prospect knocking on the door) for 3 important seasons.


Josh Hader to NYM

Jose Ramirez to MKE

Keston Hiura, Mario Feliciano, Hedbert Perez, & Brett Baty to CLE


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#22

Posted: February 03, 2021, 3:11 PM Post
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Vollbc74 said:
wallus said:
I mentioned it in the other thread but I would do a 3 team trade with Hader going for prospects, Hiura to Cleveland and Ramirez plus the prospects we got for Hader going to Cleveland.

Ramirez would make our lineup much better and fills a need (with no prospect knocking on the door) for 3 important seasons.


Josh Hader to NYM

Jose Ramirez to MKE

Keston Hiura, Mario Feliciano, Hedbert Perez, & Brett Baty to CLE


So the Mets are getting Hader for Baty alone? Yikes!

Also, Ramirez is a stud, but giving up a package of Hiura, Hader, Feliciano and Perez is super steep, IMO.


Last edited by Ron Robinson's Beard on February 03, 2021, 3:12 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Online  Re: Jose Ramirez
#23

Posted: February 03, 2021, 3:12 PM Post
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Posts: 2974
That would be quite the haul for Cleveland in that scenario. We probably don’t have to give up both Hader and Hiura to acquire Ramirez.


Last edited by wibadgers23 on February 03, 2021, 3:17 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Online  Re: Jose Ramirez
#24

Posted: February 03, 2021, 3:15 PM Post
Posts: 12895
PeaveyFury said:
RollieTime said:
We would still have a big question mark at first if we moved Hiura.


I follow your logic 100% and think you may be right, but don't we also have a big question mark if we keep Hiura and assume he can play first as well?


Moving from 2B to 1B shouldn't be all the difficult especially playing next to a gold glover at 2B. Big question is will they add someone like a Brad Miller to mix in at 3B with Robertson/Urias. Ramirez is a long shot.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#25

Posted: February 03, 2021, 3:23 PM Post
Posts: 109
JohnBriggs12 said:
PeaveyFury said:
RollieTime said:
We would still have a big question mark at first if we moved Hiura.


I follow your logic 100% and think you may be right, but don't we also have a big question mark if we keep Hiura and assume he can play first as well?


Moving from 2B to 1B shouldn't be all the difficult especially playing next to a gold glover at 2B. Big question is will they add someone like a Brad Miller to mix in at 3B with Robertson/Urias. Ramirez is a long shot.


I think Miller makes a ton of sense to fill out the roster. He's hit .825 vs RHP the last 3 years including his rough tenure with the Crew. Him and Robertson (.749) or Urias (.873) pair really well together as a platoon at 3B and we'd always have 2 nice UTL guy on the bench.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#26

Posted: February 03, 2021, 3:30 PM Post
Posts: 26766
I don't understand why Hader is getting thrown into these trade scenarios for Ramirez. The Indians just turned down paying 9M to Brad Hand, so they're obviously looking to shed costs. They're looking at a younger package if they trade Ramirez. Hiura makes sense for them. Hader really doesn't. In addition Hader isn't really a valuable enough trade chip where you couldn't just use a decent farm piece instead of Josh. It's like he's just being thrown into these because we've listened to offers on him when really someone like Mitchell or Turang makes a lot more sense for both sides and probably has similar surplus value.

Plus if you acquire Ramirez you're trying to win these next few years...you don't really start that by selling off your best reliever when you don't need to.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#27

Posted: February 03, 2021, 3:38 PM Post
Posts: 2468
Hader is getting used to get prospects for the Indians, makes perfect sense. The bullpen is an area of strength we can afford to deal from. Although we have years of control for Josh, he will very soon be too expensive for us.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#28

Posted: February 03, 2021, 3:38 PM Post
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Location: California
Why are the Indians trying to move Ramirez again?

He's under contract this year for $9.4m and has a team option in 2022 for $11m and 2023 for $13m or 3 years $33.4m for MVP level production in his prime (age 28-30 seasons). Sure they traded Lindor but that was only because they weren't giving him a $300m deal. They still have Bieber, Civale, Plesac and McKenzie in their rotation and Ramirez, Franmil Reyes and just signed Eddie Rosario in their lineup.

They seem somewhat like contenders, maybe not for the division with the Twins and White Sox, but certainly the Wild Card with that pitching. What am I missing?


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#29

Posted: February 03, 2021, 3:42 PM Post
Posts: 2468
Warning Track Power said:
Why are the Indians trying to move Ramirez again?

He's under contract this year for $9.4m and has a team option in 2022 for $11m and 2023 for $13m or 3 years $33.4m for MVP level production in his prime (age 28-30 seasons). Sure they traded Lindor but that was only because they weren't giving him a $300m deal. They still have Bieber, Civale, Plesac and McKenzie in their rotation and Ramirez, Franmil Reyes and just signed Eddie Rosario in their lineup.

They seem somewhat like contenders, maybe not for the division with the Twins and White Sox, but certainly the Wild Card with that pitching. What am I missing?


A guy like Hiura (as well as potential prospects) match up much better with Cleveland's next competitive window. They are, at best, the 3rd best team in their division as it stands.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#30

Posted: February 03, 2021, 3:42 PM Post
Posts: 1582
Location: Ohio
Warning Track Power said:
Why are the Indians trying to move Ramirez again?

He's under contract this year for $9.4m and has a team option in 2022 for $11m and 2023 for $13m or 3 years $33.4m for MVP level production in his prime (age 28-30 seasons). Sure they traded Lindor but that was only because they weren't giving him a $300m deal. They still have Bieber, Civale, Plesac and McKenzie in their rotation and Ramirez, Franmil Reyes and just signed Eddie Rosario in their lineup.

They seem somewhat like contenders, maybe not for the division with the Twins and White Sox, but certainly the Wild Card with that pitching. What am I missing?


And brought back Cesar Hernandez (AL gold glove at 2B & led MLB in doubles for 2020).
2020 was a dogfight in the AL central as 1 game separated 1st & 3rd place. I suspect more of the same in 2021.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#31

Posted: February 03, 2021, 3:53 PM Post
Posts: 1582
Location: Ohio
adambr2 said:
I don't understand why Hader is getting thrown into these trade scenarios for Ramirez. The Indians just turned down paying 9M to Brad Hand, so they're obviously looking to shed costs. They're looking at a younger package if they trade Ramirez. Hiura makes sense for them. Hader really doesn't. In addition Hader isn't really a valuable enough trade chip where you couldn't just use a decent farm piece instead of Josh. It's like he's just being thrown into these because we've listened to offers on him when really someone like Mitchell or Turang makes a lot more sense for both sides and probably has similar surplus value.

Plus if you acquire Ramirez you're trying to win these next few years...you don't really start that by selling off your best reliever when you don't need to.


I don't believe Mitchell & Turang would be seen the same way in CLE.

Mitchell - Yes CLE would be interested.
Turang - Not as much value to CLE as they have 5 other options to sort thru for SS in 2021/ 2022/ 2023. Those options being: Amed Rosario/ Andres Gimenez/ Gabriel Arias/ Tyler Freeman/ Brayan Rocchio

Note: the 1st 3 of that grouping already on the 40 man & the last 2 due for R5 protection after the 2021 season.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#32

Posted: February 03, 2021, 3:53 PM Post
Posts: 26766
wallus said:
Hader is getting used to get prospects for the Indians, makes perfect sense. The bullpen is an area of strength we can afford to deal from. Although we have years of control for Josh, he will very soon be too expensive for us.


An area of strength? Devin Williams and who?? It is a weak pen without Hader.

If Hader was able to be used to get solid prospects we probably would have already done that ourselves.

And if Josh Hader is too expensive for us to keep, we had better forget about Ramirez because we're not affording much of anyone to put around him. If we can afford 18M over the next 2 years for Kolton Wong we can certainly afford 15M or so over the same period for Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#33

Posted: February 03, 2021, 4:01 PM Post
Posts: 2468
adambr2 said:
wallus said:
Hader is getting used to get prospects for the Indians, makes perfect sense. The bullpen is an area of strength we can afford to deal from. Although we have years of control for Josh, he will very soon be too expensive for us.


An area of strength? Devin Williams and who?? It is a weak pen without Hader.

If Hader was able to be used to get solid prospects we probably would have already done that ourselves.

And if Josh Hader is too expensive for us to keep, we had better forget about Ramirez because we're not affording much of anyone to put around him. If we can afford 18M over the next 2 years for Kolton Wong we can certainly afford 15M or so over the same period for Josh Hader.


Peralta, Suter, Williams, Rasmussen, Yardley is a decent pen even without Hader.

We don't have anyone near the level of Ramirez that can play 3rd. We have some decent replacements to take over for Josh. It's pretty simple.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#34

Posted: February 03, 2021, 4:03 PM Post
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adambr2 said:

An area of strength? Devin Williams and who?? It is a weak pen without Hader.



Bullpens don't need to be full of all-stars to be considered an area of strength. Not many bullpens have anything close to a one-two of Hader and Williams. Suter has been very good in the past, Peralta shows an enourmous upside, Rasmussen and Topa could take big steps and have a lot of tools, etc. Stearns has a track record of finding young pitchers who take big steps each year.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#35

Posted: February 03, 2021, 4:19 PM Post
Posts: 26766
Yes, it's a very good pen with Hader. It's got a ton of question marks without him.

Yardley, Suter, Rasmussen, etc...these guys are not "replacing" Josh Hader. Yardley is a journeyman with 35 career innings at the big league level. Rasmussen has 15 innings above AA and got shelled at the MLB level last year. Justin Topa? Really?

All these guys have live arms, yes. Hoping you can get a breakout season from one of them is one thing. Counting on them to be a "replacement" for Josh Hader is entirely another. The list of live arms with great stuff who never amount to anything at this level is a long list. This reminds me of the Ray Black hype from last year.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#36

Posted: February 03, 2021, 4:30 PM Post
Posts: 5919
Ron Robinson's Beard said:
RollieTime said:
As much as I would love to add Ramirez, I feel like it would make more sense to keep Hiura since he is so cheap and throw him at first and just go out and sign Turner to a 3/$40 million contract or so. You don’t lengthen the lineup by trading away Hiura to bring in Ramirez and the cost of Hiura + Turner is basically the same as just Ramirez. Just something to think about. We would still have a big question mark at first if we moved Hiura.

Wong/Cain
Yelich
Turner
Hiura
Narvaez
Wong/Cain
Garcia
Urias/Arcia
P

I can get behind that!


That is making the rather big assumption, though, that Turner is agreeable to a deal with the Brewers, and his agent isn't simply using the Brewers' supposed interest in an effort to squeeze an extra couple million out of the Dodgers. For how great the Dodgers lineup is, they still have a question mark at 3B, and if they don't make a move on a guy like Ramirez or Kris Bryant, re-upping with Turner makes a lot of sense for them.


Let's just toss adding Wong improves Milw and maybe was something that was needed to entice Turner to Milw seeing the team more competitive.

Not a fan of trading assets for J Ram when signing Turner for equal amount of money solves the problem.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#37

Posted: February 03, 2021, 4:34 PM Post
Posts: 26766
I like Turner but Ramirez is just flat out better, and it doesn't hurt that he's a switch hitter. He'll cost a lot less money (don't see any way Turner is available for 3/35) and most importantly for a multi-year deal, Ramirez isn't 36 years old.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#38

Posted: February 03, 2021, 4:40 PM Post
Posts: 2468
brewcrewdue80 said:
Ron Robinson's Beard said:
RollieTime said:
As much as I would love to add Ramirez, I feel like it would make more sense to keep Hiura since he is so cheap and throw him at first and just go out and sign Turner to a 3/$40 million contract or so. You don’t lengthen the lineup by trading away Hiura to bring in Ramirez and the cost of Hiura + Turner is basically the same as just Ramirez. Just something to think about. We would still have a big question mark at first if we moved Hiura.

Wong/Cain
Yelich
Turner
Hiura
Narvaez
Wong/Cain
Garcia
Urias/Arcia
P

I can get behind that!


That is making the rather big assumption, though, that Turner is agreeable to a deal with the Brewers, and his agent isn't simply using the Brewers' supposed interest in an effort to squeeze an extra couple million out of the Dodgers. For how great the Dodgers lineup is, they still have a question mark at 3B, and if they don't make a move on a guy like Ramirez or Kris Bryant, re-upping with Turner makes a lot of sense for them.


Let's just toss adding Wong improves Milw and maybe was something that was needed to entice Turner to Milw seeing the team more competitive.

Not a fan of trading assets for J Ram when signing Turner for equal amount of money solves the problem.


I could get behind Turner for 2 years but I think he will want 3+. I also am worried about him declining because of age.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#39

Posted: February 03, 2021, 9:14 PM Post
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Reminder that in addition to some of the potential pieces mentioned the Brewers also have the #32 overall pick in the 2021 MLB Draft (likely to be bumped down to selection #33 if Bauer signs a multi-year deal) that they can trade as well.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#40

Posted: February 03, 2021, 10:22 PM Post
Posts: 374
I’m all in on the Ramirez train. Hiura, Small and Feliciano should be close. I would also like to see the team sign Hill to balance out the rotation and then we got ourselves a damn fine ball club. That lineup with our aces leading the rotation and the best bullpen in the NL.


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