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3B Trade Targets

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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#81

Posted: March 08, 2021, 3:30 PM Post
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wntrtxn21 said:
BestInTheWorld said:
wntrtxn21 said:
I'd like to see Arnold/Stearns look at Brosseau from the Rays. Hit .304/.394/.960 in AAA and so far in the big leagues .284/.343/.843 in a small sample (218 ABs). Good power and decent with the glove. I think he could be had very cheaply due to the Rays plethora of infielders.


Rays arent stupid, they arent trading Brosseau... He will be one of their core guys until he gets expensive.


From what I read (not a great deal) from the Rays' sites, Brosseau is going to be kind of a utility guy. They have Diaz at 3rd with Choi at 1B and they also went and got Tsutsugo from Japan. Plus they still have Wendle (a guy I forgot about, but would be worth trading for. Career .277/.332/.734 - doesn't strikeout much - LH bat - good glove at 3B and can play 2B or SS. Not a lot of power 15-20 bomb). He could be had fairly cheaply too.


Interesting, thanks for the update.

I would love to acquire Brosseau to be our everyday 3B! Just dont see it happening.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#82

Posted: March 08, 2021, 8:15 PM Post
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BestInTheWorld said:
Rays arent stupid, they arent trading Brosseau... He will be one of their core guys until he gets expensive.

It isn’t that the Rays are stupid, it’s that they have such an unbelievable quantity of talent and they frequently face roster crunches that can influence their willingness to trade good players. In the past 20 months they’ve traded away young infielders Jake Cronenworth, Nick Solak, and Nate Lowe. Those are all good players, but the Rays have a ton of infield redundancy and roster spaces are at a premium for them.

In addition to those mentioned by wntrtxn21, the Rays also have Kevin Padlo who is MLB ready and could be a decent corner infielder.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#83

Posted: March 08, 2021, 8:49 PM Post
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Eye Black said:
BestInTheWorld said:
Rays arent stupid, they arent trading Brosseau... He will be one of their core guys until he gets expensive.

It isn’t that the Rays are stupid, it’s that they have such an unbelievable quantity of talent and they frequently face roster crunches that can influence their willingness to trade good players. In the past 20 months they’ve traded away young infielders Jake Cronenworth, Nick Solak, and Nate Lowe. Those are all good players, but the Rays have a ton of infield redundancy and roster spaces are at a premium for them.

In addition to those mentioned by wntrtxn21, the Rays also have Kevin Padlo who is MLB ready and could be a decent corner infielder.


There in lies the rub, the Rays never just give young players away because of a roster crunch. In fact. they’re more likely to trade away a veteran contract to make room for a young cost controlled player coming up from their system.

That being said, I’m sure all these players mentioned are available but the notion that they’ll somehow be easy to acquire is nonsense. When the real cost is likely a Turang and Ashby, that’s why you see the team bringing in Shaw et al as a stop gaps.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#84

Posted: March 08, 2021, 9:57 PM Post
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Jopal78! said:
There in lies the rub, the Rays never just give young players away because of a roster crunch. In fact. they’re more likely to trade away a veteran contract to make room for a young cost controlled player coming up from their system.

That being said, I’m sure all these players mentioned are available but the notion that they’ll somehow be easy to acquire is nonsense. When the real cost is likely a Turang and Ashby, that’s why you see the team bringing in Shaw et al as a stop gaps.

Unless I missed it, I don’t think anyone was suggesting that the Rays were going to give anyone away? So if you had that notion I think you misinterpreted what was being stated.

Obviously the Rays are going to require good value in return for any trade, but I don’t think it’s fair to characterize them as an organization that won’t entertain trading mid-20s talent. Under Erik Neander they’ve made an above average number of trades overall, and they’ve come in all forms (veterans for prospects, prospects for veterans, prospects for prospects, and veterans for veterans).

Here are some examples from the past few years under Erik Neander where they’ve moved talent in their early-to-mid-20s...

Casey Gillespie, 1B, age-24 at the time of the trade was ranked in the Baseball America top 100 prospects heading into 2017 and was traded during 2017 season for Dan Jennings.

Luis Rengifo, IF, age-20 at the time was traded for C.J. Cron.

Jake Bauers, 1B/OF traded following his debut season at age-22 in the trade that netted them Yandy Diaz.

Nick Solak, IF, age-24 at the time of the trade for Peter Fairbanks.

Jake Cronenworth, IF, age-26 at the time of the trade that was headlined by the swap of Tommy Pham and Hunter Renfroe. They also got back SS prospect Xavier Edwards in the deal.

Nate Lowe, 1B, age-25 was involved in a trade that brought back 3 prospects.

The last two are examples of players that were moved from their 40-man roster and back filled with prospects that didn’t require 40-man placement.

The Rays currently have 10 infielders on their 40-man roster (if you count Tsutsugo as an IF). I certainly think there are scenarios where they would entertain moving an infielder if the Brewers could offer reciprocal value in return. Whether or not that means a Turang or Ashby type player would be completely subject to the specific player being sought. If they were willing to entertain offers for Brosseau I don’t think it would take a return near that caliber as a centerpiece.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#85

Posted: March 09, 2021, 8:31 AM Post
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Eye Black said:
Jopal78! said:
There in lies the rub, the Rays never just give young players away because of a roster crunch. In fact. they’re more likely to trade away a veteran contract to make room for a young cost controlled player coming up from their system.

That being said, I’m sure all these players mentioned are available but the notion that they’ll somehow be easy to acquire is nonsense. When the real cost is likely a Turang and Ashby, that’s why you see the team bringing in Shaw et al as a stop gaps.

Unless I missed it, I don’t think anyone was suggesting that the Rays were going to give anyone away? So if you had that notion I think you misinterpreted what was being stated.

Obviously the Rays are going to require good value in return for any trade, but I don’t think it’s fair to characterize them as an organization that won’t entertain trading mid-20s talent. Under Erik Neander they’ve made an above average number of trades overall, and they’ve come in all forms (veterans for prospects, prospects for veterans, prospects for prospects, and veterans for veterans).

Here are some examples from the past few years under Erik Neander where they’ve moved talent in their early-to-mid-20s...

Casey Gillespie, 1B, age-24 at the time of the trade was ranked in the Baseball America top 100 prospects heading into 2017 and was traded during 2017 season for Dan Jennings.

Luis Rengifo, IF, age-20 at the time was traded for C.J. Cron.

Jake Bauers, 1B/OF traded following his debut season at age-22 in the trade that netted them Yandy Diaz.

Nick Solak, IF, age-24 at the time of the trade for Peter Fairbanks.

Jake Cronenworth, IF, age-26 at the time of the trade that was headlined by the swap of Tommy Pham and Hunter Renfroe. They also got back SS prospect Xavier Edwards in the deal.

Nate Lowe, 1B, age-25 was involved in a trade that brought back 3 prospects.

The last two are examples of players that were moved from their 40-man roster and back filled with prospects that didn’t require 40-man placement.

The Rays currently have 10 infielders on their 40-man roster (if you count Tsutsugo as an IF). I certainly think there are scenarios where they would entertain moving an infielder if the Brewers could offer reciprocal value in return. Whether or not that means a Turang or Ashby type player would be completely subject to the specific player being sought. If they were willing to entertain offers for Brosseau I don’t think it would take a return near that caliber as a centerpiece.


But this is the whole point. How many top 100 prospects do the Brewers have? I read they have 2 and both are around 95/100 and haven’t played above AA. Any trade involving prospects from the Brewers would necessarily be a quantity for quality type deal. Then there’s the notion if it’s even wise to trade away tomorrow’s potential players for a player who may or may not help right now.

Third, having a roster crunch of young cost controlled players is a good problem to have. Unless the Brewers would make an offer they couldn’t refuse, why wouldn’t Tampa fix their infielder problem by trading several away to get immediate help elsewhere. It doesn’t make sense for any team to take on non-blue chip prospects from Milwaukee who are in the low levels of the minors. It’s nonsense


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#86

Posted: March 09, 2021, 8:49 AM Post
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What about a deal for Brian Anderson if Miami falls out of it this season?


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#87

Posted: March 09, 2021, 9:57 AM Post
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Jopal78! said:
Third, having a roster crunch of young cost controlled players is a good problem to have.

This part I completely agree on. It's a very good problem to have and the Rays have been masterful at navigating their roster surplus to either fill current areas of need or cycling them for other assets.

As far as the other stuff, I guess I'm just not understanding what exactly you are referring to as nonsense. It seems simple enough that if a deal can be found that makes sense for both sides it should be pursued. If it can't, then the Brewers should roll with some combination of Shaw/Urias/Arcia/Robertson at 3B and see how it turns out.

One other thing about the Rays current situation is that Wander Franco isn't on their 40-man (which is full at the moment). Have to imagine he'll be on the major league roster at some point this year.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#88

Posted: March 09, 2021, 10:43 AM Post
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Regarding the Rays, here is how Baseball Prospectus currently projects their infield playing time breakdown:

First Base
Ji-Man Choi (60%)
Yandy Diaz (30%)
Michael Brosseau (10%)

Second Base
Brandon Lowe (60%)
Joey Wendle (25%)
Michael Brosseau (10%)
Vidal Brujan (5%)

Shortstop
Willy Adames (85%)
Joey Wendle (5%)
Wander Franco (5%)
Taylor Walls (5%)

Third Base
Joey Wendle (35%)
Yandy Diaz (30%)
Yoshitomo Tsutsugo (15%)
Michael Brosseau (10%)
Kevin Padlo (10%)


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#89

Posted: March 09, 2021, 11:31 AM Post
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Eye Black said:
Jopal78! said:
Third, having a roster crunch of young cost controlled players is a good problem to have.

This part I completely agree on. It's a very good problem to have and the Rays have been masterful at navigating their roster surplus to either fill current areas of need or cycling them for other assets.

As far as the other stuff, I guess I'm just not understanding what exactly you are referring to as nonsense. It seems simple enough that if a deal can be found that makes sense for both sides it should be pursued. If it can't, then the Brewers should roll with some combination of Shaw/Urias/Arcia/Robertson at 3B and see how it turns out.

One other thing about the Rays current situation is that Wander Franco currently isn't on their 40-man (which is currently full). Have to imagine he'll be on the major league roster at some point this year.


Simply because Tampa Bay has more infielders on their 40 man roster than playing time, doesn't necessarily mean they and Milwaukee match up as trade partners.

As an initial matter, what do you perceive the demand being for cost-controlled major league ready players with ceilings as potential every day players? In my opinion, with all the teams having lost significant revenue, the demand for those type of players has never been higher.

Thus, the Rays aren't simply going to move players for the sake of doing it because their 40 man roster is full. Rather, it is a seller's market, and any trade they would make would be to bolster their team now, or acquire premium minor league players they believe will help them in the near future.

Conversely, the Brewers don't have any major league pieces that are expendable. People can disagree, but the consensus seems to be that the Brewers minor league system is light on premium talent overall, and light on players close to being major league ready.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#90

Posted: March 09, 2021, 1:34 PM Post
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Jopal78! said:
Simply because Tampa Bay has more infielders on their 40 man roster than playing time, doesn't necessarily mean they and Milwaukee match up as trade partners.

I never suggested it guaranteed they were some perfect match. It's an observation that given the status of their current roster construction they could be willing to discuss a trade. Since the start of last off-season (past 18 months) the Rays have made 23 trades involving a total of 61 players or draft picks, so I don't think it's far-fetched to believe they might be willing to discuss trading their current players.


Jopal78! said:
As an initial matter, what do you perceive the demand being for cost-controlled major league ready players with ceilings as potential every day players?

I think it varies widely by individual player. It's dependent on each club's evaluation of that player as well as their own organization's motivations, needs, preferences, and internal philosophies.


Jopal78! said:
Thus, the Rays aren't simply going to move players for the sake of doing it because their 40 man roster is full. Rather, it is a seller's market, and any trade they would make would be to bolster their team now, or acquire premium minor league players they believe will help them in the near future.
Conversely, the Brewers don't have any major league pieces that are expendable. People can disagree, but the consensus seems to be that the Brewers minor league system is light on premium talent overall, and light on players close to being major league ready.

We could spend all day quibbling over what we think a team is/isn't willing to do.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter what we think, but it's fun to speculate here in Transaction Rumors/Proposals forum. I enjoy looking at attempts to value players including those who post surplus value estimates, even if ultimately there are too many missing factors to ever feel overly confident.

One such source for attempting to do the nearly impossible is Baseball Trade Values. Again, it's far from a perfect science, but at the very least provides for some entertaining content that we can use to identify some general trends in value.

Here is where BTV has some of the Rays infielders listed in terms of value:

Player		Pos.	Avail.	Years	Low	Median	High
Franco SS 99.7 124.6 149.5
Lowe 2B Low 6 57.6 72 86.4
Brujan 2B 32.9 41.1 49.3
Diaz 1B Low 4 11.6 14.9 18.2
Walls SS 10.6 13.2 15.8
Padlo 3B 4.8 6 7.2
Wendle 3B/2B Medium 3 3.5 4.4 5.3
Brosseau 3B/1B Medium 5 3.1 3.9 4.7
Choi 1B Medium 3 1 1.4 1.8


As I stated above, I don't think these are some iron-clad valuations. It does seem to suggest, however, that Michael Brosseau also isn't likely to be headlining a blockbuster trade for the Rays if they do decide to listen to offers.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#91

Posted: March 14, 2021, 10:49 AM Post
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The Rays are playing Wander Franco at 3B today (a position he’s never previously played in professional baseball) and according to Marc Topkin they are also planning on getting him experience at 2B. I’m very curious to see if he gets added to the 40-man roster and called up at some point this season.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#92

Posted: March 14, 2021, 10:59 AM Post
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Eye Black said:
The Rays are playing Wander Franco at 3B today (a position he’s never previously played in professional baseball) and according to Marc Topkin they are also planning on getting him experience at 2B. I’m very curious to see if he gets added to the 40-man roster and called up at some point this season.


I'd imagine Wander starts off in the minors & assuming he continues to rake (in 2019 he slashed 327/398/487 with 83 BB vs 54 K as an 18 year year old in A/A+) gets called up sometime after the Super Two deadline has passed.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#93

Posted: March 21, 2021, 5:58 PM Post
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I've always felt that Jeff McNeil was someone the Crew should have found a way to acquire.

High-average left-handed bat with lots of doubles. Given what Yelich has done at Miller Park, I wonder if McNeil would have a similar boost in power - given that Citi Field is actually MORE pitcher-friendly than the Miami Marlins stadium.

I wonder what sort of package could get McNeil. He's one of the few players I'd consider offering Hader for.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#94

Posted: March 22, 2021, 5:58 AM Post
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clancyphile said:
I've always felt that Jeff McNeil was someone the Crew should have found a way to acquire.

High-average left-handed bat with lots of doubles. Given what Yelich has done at Miller Park, I wonder if McNeil would have a similar boost in power - given that Citi Field is actually MORE pitcher-friendly than the Miami Marlins stadium.

I wonder what sort of package could get McNeil. He's one of the few players I'd consider offering Hader for.



I really can't imagine why the Mets would consider trading him after they've invested so heavily on this season. A guy who has a ~.320/.380/555/ slash line and plays 3rd/2nd/OF and has 4 more years of service time is likely going to cost a LOT.

Maybe Hiura, Hader would be a good starting point, but I'd rather just give Keston another year to see if he can develop into the same type of hitter(which I think he can). Though obviously not the same type of defensive versatility).

I doubt they'd be interested in someone like Turang with Lindor already in place...which is great, because he's the one guy I don't want to see traded.



Yeah, he'd be a nearly perfect addition, I just can't think of any reason the Mets would want to move on from him.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#95

Posted: March 24, 2021, 7:39 AM Post
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Eye Black said:
Regarding the Rays, here is how Baseball Prospectus currently projects their infield playing time breakdown:

First Base
Ji-Man Choi (60%)
Yandy Diaz (30%)
Michael Brosseau (10%)

Second Base
Brandon Lowe (60%)
Joey Wendle (25%)
Michael Brosseau (10%)
Vidal Brujan (5%)

Shortstop
Willy Adames (85%)
Joey Wendle (5%)
Wander Franco (5%)
Taylor Walls (5%)

Third Base
Joey Wendle (35%)
Yandy Diaz (30%)
Yoshitomo Tsutsugo (15%)
Michael Brosseau (10%)
Kevin Padlo (10%)


That's pretty crazy.

Out of curiosity, what does Baseball Prospectus currently project the Brewers for playing time percentages?

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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#96

Posted: March 28, 2021, 6:09 PM Post
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Todd Frazier opted out of his deal with the Pirates.

https://sports.yahoo.com/veteran-infiel ... 42691.html

I wouldnt be opposed to a Frazier/Shaw platoon.

Granted I'm not sure Frazier is a major upgrade over Robertson.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#97

Posted: March 28, 2021, 8:39 PM Post
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wildcat2237 said:
Granted I'm not sure Frazier is a major upgrade over Robertson.

I don't think he's an upgrade over Robertson, but Arcia's another story...

2018-20 vs. RHP:
Image

2018-20 vs. LHP
Image

2018-20 Defense at 3B:
Image

They'd have to be all in on Urias at short and comfortable with Robertson as the backup (although Turang may not be far behind as well), but Shaw/Frazier at 3B and Urias/Robertson at SS (not suggesting a straight platoon here) could be very effective.

That said, I'd be very surprised to see them go this direction.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#98

Posted: March 29, 2021, 7:24 PM Post
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As much as I hate Arcia I don’t think they can cut him after showing signs of life last year


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
#99

Posted: March 30, 2021, 11:34 PM Post
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Location: Portland, OR
Abraham Toro.

The Astros seem to want to play less talented older players and the man is ready to hit major league pitching.


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Offline  Re: 3B Trade Targets
Posted: March 31, 2021, 8:20 AM Post
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Looks like Toro is limited defensively to the corners where the Astros have Bregman, Brantley, Tucker & Gurriel slated to start.

If he's more talented than those guys, sign me up.


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