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White Sox Corner OF

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Offline  Re: White Sox Corner OF
#21

Posted: March 26, 2021, 12:22 PM Post
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Sounds like they are moving Vaughn to the outfield today. He's a stud hitter but was gonna be their DH (and I believe was a 1st baseman in college). Would Sox GM put him in the field just to gain a bit of leverage on a trade? "Meh, we don't really need an outfielder. We've got Vaughn"

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: White Sox Corner OF
#22

Posted: March 26, 2021, 12:26 PM Post
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homer said:
Sounds like they are moving Vaughn to the outfield today. He's a stud hitter but was gonna be their DH (and I believe was a 1st baseman in college). Would Sox GM put him in the field just to gain a bit of leverage on a trade? "Meh, we don't really need an outfielder. We've got Vaughn"


To be fair, Jimenez is essentially a DH playing corner outfield too, although he at least has experience in the outfield.

Feel bad for Eloy - hopefully he makes a full recovery.


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Offline  Re: White Sox Corner OF
#23

Posted: March 26, 2021, 12:50 PM Post
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Fear The Chorizo said:
homer said:
Sounds like they are moving Vaughn to the outfield today. He's a stud hitter but was gonna be their DH (and I believe was a 1st baseman in college). Would Sox GM put him in the field just to gain a bit of leverage on a trade? "Meh, we don't really need an outfielder. We've got Vaughn"


To be fair, Jimenez is essentially a DH playing corner outfield too, although he at least has experience in the outfield.

Feel bad for Eloy - hopefully he makes a full recovery.


As much as Eloy isn't really a great or good or mediocre outfielder, he at least has a ton of experience out there. He has more speed and much more arm than Vaughn, plus all the experience. I don't think this is a very good idea, especially considering Vaughn hasn't even gotten his feet under him hitting at the MLB level.


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Offline  Re: White Sox Corner OF
#24

Posted: March 26, 2021, 3:13 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
Jopal78! said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Garcia is notably a better player than Bruce, a contending team probably shouldn't head to the bargain bin for a starting outfielder. I will add I don't think we trade Garcia for a prospect unless it's a very young one with a lot of promise, or they eat all the salary so we can add elsewhere. I think a more likely trade would be for a player we can use now. I'm not sure what their 3b/ss depth is like, or starting pitching depth. Those would be obvious fits for us.


Bruce since 2017: .301/.474
Gracia since 2017: .336/.456

(Those numbers also include the two best years of Garcia’s career.)


If you can have Bruce for just his salary, what GM would give up any capital to acquire basically the same guy with a 10 million dollar salary to boot.


Really. Ok, bruce has better slugging while garcia is significantly better at literally everything else...also garcia is 29 while Bruce is 33. The likelihood of Garcia living up to his last couple years production is much high than Bruce living up to his. There a reason Garcia is getting 12 million a year while Bruce is a minor league deal. We aren't a match because they can just go get Bruce for free is a poor poor argument.



A couple of absolutes: 1. The Brewers hardly ever include cash in trades. 2. The Brewers are not going to give Garcia away. This

Accordingly, my point is the White Sox GM is not going to give a player from their organization and take on 12 million dollars in payroll for Garcia when players like Bruce are available for a minimal salary. The difference between Garcia and a player like Bruce doesn’t warrant such a cost.


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Offline  Re: White Sox Corner OF
#25

Posted: March 26, 2021, 3:18 PM Post
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Jopal78! said:
A couple of absolutes: 1. The Brewers hardly ever include cash in trades. 2. The Brewers are not going to give Garcia away. This

Accordingly, my point is the White Sox GM is not going to give a player from their organization and take on 12 million dollars in payroll for Garcia when players like Bruce are available for a minimal salary. The difference between Garcia and a player like Bruce doesn’t warrant such a cost.


Though the Brewers haven't included cash in trades, they've been content to pay players to stay home. The line between the two is virtually non-existent, IMO. Perhaps that's a function of not having players with terrible that other teams were even willing to take on by the point the Brewers were willing to move them (Suppan, Lohse, Garza, etc)?


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Offline  Re: White Sox Corner OF
#26

Posted: March 26, 2021, 5:16 PM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
Jopal78! said:
A couple of absolutes: 1. The Brewers hardly ever include cash in trades. 2. The Brewers are not going to give Garcia away. This

Accordingly, my point is the White Sox GM is not going to give a player from their organization and take on 12 million dollars in payroll for Garcia when players like Bruce are available for a minimal salary. The difference between Garcia and a player like Bruce doesn’t warrant such a cost.


Though the Brewers haven't included cash in trades, they've been content to pay players to stay home. The line between the two is virtually non-existent, IMO. Perhaps that's a function of not having players with terrible that other teams were even willing to take on by the point the Brewers were willing to move them (Suppan, Lohse, Garza, etc)?


You may be right about eating the remainder of a contract. But they don’t do that much either. In fact no money was eaten with Garza or Lohse as they were never released. They last pitched for Milwaukee on Sept. 27 and October 1st respectively in the final years of their deals. Suppan was released in June of the final year of his contract eating maybe 6 million dollars. That only occurred when Suppan became completely worthless allowing almost an earned run per inning. Garcia by contrast is far from worthless


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Offline  Re: White Sox Corner OF
#27

Posted: March 26, 2021, 6:48 PM Post
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Ok, Randy Wolf and his 49 MPH curveball, then. Point is, the Brewers have rarely had a contract where A)they desperately wanted to get out of it, AND B)there was value in that player at a lesser dollar amount, so I'm not sure you can assume or read anything from their past actions. Yeah, they don't include cash in trades. But they also really haven't traded off a bad contract before.


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Offline  Re: White Sox Corner OF
#28

Posted: March 26, 2021, 11:15 PM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
Ok, Randy Wolf and his 49 MPH curveball, then. Point is, the Brewers have rarely had a contract where A)they desperately wanted to get out of it, AND B)there was value in that player at a lesser dollar amount, so I'm not sure you can assume or read anything from their past actions. Yeah, they don't include cash in trades. But they also really haven't traded off a bad contract before.


In fact, Randy Wolf was released at the end of August in 2012 after making 25 starts for the Brewers. He had maybe 15% of his annual salary remaining when let go. I will rephrase though: The Brewers do not have a history of paying players while they play for different clubs.

Even if they wanted to move Garcia’s contract, he’s the textbook definition of a mediocre outfielder (not really bad at anything, but not outstanding at anything either) on an expiring contract. The return would never be such that it would warrant picking up his contract. As posted earlier the difference between Garcia and other readily available outfielders is such no GM is going to give up players to acquire him right now.


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Offline  Re: White Sox Corner OF
#29

Posted: March 27, 2021, 8:08 AM Post
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Looking at the White Sox roster, and I feel they absolutely need to make a move for another outfielder.

I don't think Garcia makes sense at all. On average, FGDC, Steamer, ZiPS are projecting him as a 400 plate appearances/0.4 WAR player in 2021. Increase the plate appearances to an everyday player that doesn't get injured, and I'm guessing pretty much all MLB teams would put a surplus value on him of about -7 million. Brewers pick up the buyout for 2022 and Garcia still has -5 million in surplus value.

Reasonable expectation in a Garcia deal would be the Brewers send Garcia and a significant amount of money (>3 million, could take up to 7 million) and all they would probably get back is one non-top 30 lottery ticket type prospect. If the cash is less than what I suggest then cross off the lottery ticket type prospect and downgrade it to an organizational filler type (in terms of the Brewer's system, someone like Bubba Derby).

So for the folks above that suggested the Brewers are just better keeping Garcia for depth and an insurance policy, I agree with those people 100%.

I have Cain with a -7.1 million in surplus value. And does Reinsdorf really want to add Cain's salary? Very doubtful IMO. I think the Brewers probably need to add at least 10 million dollars to make the trade happen and still get nothing back for the return. 2021 budget is pretty much done. Cain gets 18 million in 2022 but if the Brewers eat 10 million of that, is the additional 8 million of available money worth losing 2 seasons of Cain's performance? Time will tell on that.


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Offline  Re: White Sox Corner OF
#30

Posted: March 27, 2021, 11:03 AM Post
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For starters, I think that valuation is probably at least a little low. More importantly, they don't really have great options to cost effectively add WAR at that position. Someone brought up Bruce, maybe they pay him 2 million bucks to put up -0.5 WAR over 400 PA. That's not really the type of thing a contending team should do. It's possible at cut downs that someone releases a better option that they can bring in at 1-2 million bucks that can be replacement value, or maybe it's more worthwhile to trade for an established big leaguer that can actually help you win games.


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Offline  Re: White Sox Corner OF
#31

Posted: March 27, 2021, 11:15 AM Post
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FWIW, the Yankees are planning to add Jay Bruce to their roster.

Looks like he’ll primarily take the place of Luke Voit at first base for now. Voit has a partial meniscus tear and will have surgery.


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Offline  Re: White Sox Corner OF
#32

Posted: March 27, 2021, 11:52 AM Post
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Jopal78! said:
I will rephrase though: The Brewers do not have a history of paying players while they play for different clubs.


I think that's a better way to put it. But, if I'm understanding your view correctly, you seem to be implying (and I could be wrong) that they're doing this by choice. My point is that it's impossible to know whether it's a choice not to, or that they've never really had a contract they want to get out of where the player is still valuable to some team. Most of their albatross contracts have been to players that are toast by the time the contract is actually viewed as an albatross.


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Offline  Re: White Sox Corner OF
#33

Posted: March 30, 2021, 9:11 AM Post
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Sounds like Moncada is moving to LF, Sox signed Jake Lamb yesterday to play 3B.


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