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Burnes or Woodruff

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Offline  Burnes or Woodruff
#1

Posted: May 08, 2021, 1:04 PM Post
Posts: 1855
If Yelich is out a significant time and the season unravels should we consider moving one of our aces to replenish a barren farm system. I would hate to make a move like this when we have waited years to finally develop our own top of the rotation pitchers but when you are a small market everything needs to be considered especially with a flailing farm system that isn’t close to providing any position player talent that will impact the weakest of lineups.

Just throwing this out there for discussion but I think everything needs to be on the table to improve this offense which is simply not good enough.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#2

Posted: May 08, 2021, 1:40 PM Post
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Posts: 17234
Location: Milwaukee, WI
I don’t know how long you have been a Brewers fan but this type of post reeks like someone who hasn’t seen a lot of bad Brewers teams that had terrible pitching. We finally look like we have good guys to round out a rotation and we trade them away? No thanks.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#3

Posted: May 08, 2021, 2:03 PM Post
Posts: 1855
Brew4U said:
I don’t know how long you have been a Brewers fan but this type of post reeks like someone who hasn’t seen a lot of bad Brewers teams that had terrible pitching. We finally look like we have good guys to round out a rotation and we trade them away? No thanks.


I realize how hard it is to develop pitching but small market teams must consider everything to sustain success and right now our lack of depth is being exposed. The lineup is a joke and the minor league system has nothing even close to changing that fact. Again it’s great having two aces but it’s also no fun watching this team struggle to score any runs at all.

I am not even saying we should move either of our aces but we should be willing to listen on everyone if the right offer is out there. Something has to be done about this lineup and no one should be off limits.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#4

Posted: May 08, 2021, 2:13 PM Post
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Posts: 10725
I agree you have to ride these homegrown arms.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#5

Posted: May 08, 2021, 2:40 PM Post
Posts: 26766
Barring a full blown rebuild I don't see any reason to trade either of these guys and severely weaken our rotation. Trading either of Woodruff or Burnes is a long-term play and shouldn't be done with short-term issues in mind.

Our success this year is partially predicated on two things -- Hiura rebounds and Yelich stays healthy and rebounds. Unfortunately neither of those things has happened to this point and until they do we are going to be limited in our success. There just aren't other moves we can make that will make up for it if these guys can't come through.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#6

Posted: May 09, 2021, 10:19 AM Post
Posts: 2627
Location: Madison, WI
If the team falls to a 90+ loss team, then I think you have to explore the possibility of trading one or both of them. But I don't see this being a 90 loss team in the near future.

I wouldn't look to deal either of these players until after the 2022 season, when each of them would only have two years of team control remaining. Almost have to think that if you are completely unwilling to give a pitcher a 100+ million dollar contract, that you have to at least explore dealing them at that time. Long term plan, I probably would trade one of them after 2022 and the other after 2023. Obviously a lot can change with injuries or the performance of the team. But if the Brewers are performing in the 80-86 win department over the next couple of seasons, that would be the plan.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#7

Posted: May 09, 2021, 2:49 PM Post
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Posts: 13540
NO
NO
NO
NO
NO

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#8

Posted: May 09, 2021, 3:17 PM Post
Posts: 16246
If I could time travel I would go back to about 2014, post the stats of our starting pitchers in 2021, and then say someone in 2021 is proposing the possibility of trading one of them while they have 3+ years left of control even though we are coming off three straight postseason appearances.

I don’t think I could even fathom a thread like this ever happening with what we had endured for years of total failure to have even anything close to a top of the rotation starter coming through our system.

Competing as a small market and strong farm system usually don’t co-exist.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#9

Posted: May 09, 2021, 3:56 PM Post
Posts: 26766
MrTPlush said:
If I could time travel I would go back to about 2014, post the stats of our starting pitchers in 2021, and then say someone in 2021 is proposing the possibility of trading one of them while they have 3+ years left of control even though we are coming off three straight postseason appearances.

I don’t think I could even fathom a thread like this ever happening with what we had endured for years of total failure to have even anything close to a top of the rotation starter coming through our system.

Competing as a small market and strong farm system usually don’t co-exist.


Man, if I could time travel I would have a lot more fun than that.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#10

Posted: May 09, 2021, 4:19 PM Post
Posts: 934
Remember Braden Looper? There was a time when he was the second-best starting pitcher on this team. We finally have a legit 1-2 punch in Woodruff and Burnes, and there is no way in hell that I’m even entertaining the thought of letting them go.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#11

Posted: May 09, 2021, 4:51 PM Post
Posts: 402
Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta and Houser are a decent top four and are cost controlled players not even in their prime. If you move one it is going to be the year before they hit free agency and it will be because they don't have the money to resign Burnes and Woodruff both. In a perfect world Lauer steps up and takes the five spot in the rotation but I think he actually has the potential to be number three.
It would be interesting to see what Woodruff, Burnes or Harder would generate in a trade once the bidding starts but the Brewer's need to hang on to them.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#12

Posted: May 09, 2021, 6:07 PM Post
Posts: 16246
Decent, shoot...might be the best in the history of the franchise. Maybe not even close.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#13

Posted: May 09, 2021, 7:28 PM Post
Posts: 99
Its simple answer what normally cost the most to aquire through trade ?.... top of the rotation pitching (if you can even get someone to trade with)and its not even close ,so we have it and no way in God's green earth should we trade any of our young core of pitchers. You can find hitters to help your team at the deadline but those that have good starting pitching keep it as long as they can .


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#14

Posted: May 09, 2021, 8:31 PM Post
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Posts: 7365
That is a big negatory... Scrap the whole team and trade everyone else... Those two are so rare and cheap at the moment... not a chance.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#15

Posted: May 10, 2021, 6:03 AM Post
Posts: 2033
brewers888 said:
Brew4U said:
I don’t know how long you have been a Brewers fan but this type of post reeks like someone who hasn’t seen a lot of bad Brewers teams that had terrible pitching. We finally look like we have good guys to round out a rotation and we trade them away? No thanks.


I realize how hard it is to develop pitching but small market teams must consider everything to sustain success and right now our lack of depth is being exposed. The lineup is a joke and the minor league system has nothing even close to changing that fact. Again it’s great having two aces but it’s also no fun watching this team struggle to score any runs at all.

I am not even saying we should move either of our aces but we should be willing to listen on everyone if the right offer is out there. Something has to be done about this lineup and no one should be off limits.


We were leading the division with those garbage players until a few days ago. It’s the beginning of may, R-E-L-A-X. I’d trade Hader or Devin before any starter even enters the conversation of trade bait.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#16

Posted: May 10, 2021, 6:35 AM Post
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Posts: 4504
brewers888 said:
Brew4U said:
I don’t know how long you have been a Brewers fan but this type of post reeks like someone who hasn’t seen a lot of bad Brewers teams that had terrible pitching. We finally look like we have good guys to round out a rotation and we trade them away? No thanks.


I realize how hard it is to develop pitching but small market teams must consider everything to sustain success and right now our lack of depth is being exposed. The lineup is a joke and the minor league system has nothing even close to changing that fact. Again it’s great having two aces but it’s also no fun watching this team struggle to score any runs at all.

I am not even saying we should move either of our aces but we should be willing to listen on everyone if the right offer is out there. Something has to be done about this lineup and no one should be off limits.


Nah. Woodruff and Burnes are definitely two guys who should be off limits.

Also, it's May 10. The Brewers still have 127 games this season. You should probably relax and have a Snickers.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#17

Posted: May 10, 2021, 9:05 AM Post
Posts: 2294
Even if this was a 90 loss team, you don't trade them this year. 2022 midseason would be the earliest.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#18

Posted: May 10, 2021, 10:17 AM Post
Posts: 99
brewers888 said:
Brew4U said:
I don’t know how long you have been a Brewers fan but this type of post reeks like someone who hasn’t seen a lot of bad Brewers teams that had terrible pitching. We finally look like we have good guys to round out a rotation and we trade them away? No thanks.


I realize how hard it is to develop pitching but small market teams must consider everything to sustain success and right now our lack of depth is being exposed. The lineup is a joke and the minor league system has nothing even close to changing that fact. Again it’s great having two aces but it’s also no fun watching this team struggle to score any runs at all.

I am not even saying we should move either of our aces but we should be willing to listen on everyone if the right offer is out there. Something has to be done about this lineup and no one should be off limits.




As the Brewers are showing you can have lack of depth in hitting and you can still compete with strong pitching ,however it much harder to compete with strong hitting and weak pitching .IMO for all teams but especially small market teams it starts with developing your own starting pitching and you do not part with it once you have it.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#19

Posted: May 10, 2021, 3:43 PM Post
Posts: 380
Walleye2 said:
brewers888 said:
Brew4U said:
I don’t know how long you have been a Brewers fan but this type of post reeks like someone who hasn’t seen a lot of bad Brewers teams that had terrible pitching. We finally look like we have good guys to round out a rotation and we trade them away? No thanks.


I realize how hard it is to develop pitching but small market teams must consider everything to sustain success and right now our lack of depth is being exposed. The lineup is a joke and the minor league system has nothing even close to changing that fact. Again it’s great having two aces but it’s also no fun watching this team struggle to score any runs at all.

I am not even saying we should move either of our aces but we should be willing to listen on everyone if the right offer is out there. Something has to be done about this lineup and no one should be off limits.




As the Brewers are showing you can have lack of depth in hitting and you can still compete with strong pitching ,however it much harder to compete with strong hitting and weak pitching .IMO for all teams but especially small market teams it starts with developing your own starting pitching and you do not part with it once you have it.


Yep...pitching in baseball is just like having a top QB in football. You can cover up a lot of holes when that is the strength of your team. If this season has proven anything, it's that you don't need many runs to win with this staff...don't screw that up now by using those pieces to try to add on offense.

The offense this year has been dreadful no doubt and I have been a basher of them myself, but some patience is needed as I don't think this is the year the Brewers try to get everything to line up and go for it anyways. Thinking about the next few years:

Woodruff and Burnes under contract
Williams and Hader under contract
Yelich during his prime
Urias will have more experience
Mitchell has looked great (very small sample here but not unreasonable to think he could be on a fast track to the Majors in the next season or two)
Turang likely is around the corner
Taylor showing potential at the MLB level
Ashby looks promising
Cain/JBJ/Garcia contracts off the books freeing up $$ for outside additions

Maybe this post belongs in the Brewers optimism thread but the point is, there are a lot of reasons to be excited about the team this year but this year isn't a make or break year for the core of team either. Pitching is a big reason for that so you don't go and screw that up.


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Offline  Re: Burnes or Woodruff
#20

Posted: May 10, 2021, 5:25 PM Post
Posts: 5919
Of course not. We're a AAAA team for the larger markets who will take these guys from us when their control is over. Also feel fairly confident our farm isn't as bad as ranked currently. Just missed a full season of minors play that hindered growing a farm's reputation. We were thought of as poor in 2019 it continues with no real knowledge how far the youth have come. There are a number of guys with 2020 being a gage on talent year where a good year they'd be well positioned to land within current top 100 prospect rankings or honorable mentions.
You also have the next CBA to consider how future trades, FA losses, team control, compensatory picks, etc to see if advantage or disadvantage on trading them. These are SPs that have extreme value holding and RPs can be recycled far easier to handle a loss while potentially gaining a SP.


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