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Jose Ramirez

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Offline  Jose Ramirez
#1

Posted: July 16, 2021, 7:19 AM Post
Posts: 4584
Someone proposed a Ramirez for Hiura, Perez, Faliciano, and Zamora trade to which the talking heads agreed was a good trade.

Am I wrong in thinking this is too much? Am I overvaluing our prospects?


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Online  Re: Jose Ramirez
#2

Posted: July 16, 2021, 7:27 AM Post
Posts: 26757
Yes, you are. If the Indians were to offer Ramirez for this package we should accept immediately before they changed their mind.

Realistically, it would not be close to good enough for Jose Ramirez.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#3

Posted: July 16, 2021, 7:35 AM Post
Posts: 4584
adambr2 said:
Yes, you are. If the Indians were to offer Ramirez for this package we should accept immediately before they changed their mind.

Realistically, it would not be close to good enough for Jose Ramirez.


I also didn't realize he has 2 more years on his deal and a cheap price. I assumed he was a half year rental, but I do overvalue prospects which is hard for me to get away from!


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Online  Re: Jose Ramirez
#4

Posted: July 16, 2021, 7:45 AM Post
Posts: 26757
stoutdude04 said:
adambr2 said:
Yes, you are. If the Indians were to offer Ramirez for this package we should accept immediately before they changed their mind.

Realistically, it would not be close to good enough for Jose Ramirez.


I also didn't realize he has 2 more years on his deal and a cheap price. I assumed he was a half year rental, but I do overvalue prospects which is hard for me to get away from!


I wouldn't expect Cleveland to deal Ramirez. If they really did, I would expect some very high end prospect bidding for him. My guess is if we were to have any chance at all, our offer would have to be headlined by Mitchell and Turang and that would basically be non-negotiable.


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Online  Re: Jose Ramirez
#5

Posted: July 16, 2021, 11:40 AM Post
Posts: 10387
adambr2 said:
stoutdude04 said:
adambr2 said:
Yes, you are. If the Indians were to offer Ramirez for this package we should accept immediately before they changed their mind.

Realistically, it would not be close to good enough for Jose Ramirez.


I also didn't realize he has 2 more years on his deal and a cheap price. I assumed he was a half year rental, but I do overvalue prospects which is hard for me to get away from!


I wouldn't expect Cleveland to deal Ramirez. If they really did, I would expect some very high end prospect bidding for him. My guess is if we were to have any chance at all, our offer would have to be headlined by Mitchell and Turang and that would basically be non-negotiable.


It would take Hiura, Mitchell, Turang and like 2 other prospects. Ramirez has like $100 million in value.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#6

Posted: July 16, 2021, 12:36 PM Post
Posts: 4584
Right on! I thought he was older and was on the last year.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#7

Posted: July 16, 2021, 12:58 PM Post
Posts: 16230
Mitchell would be apart of the trade, 100%. Past that, tough to say. Maybe Mitchell, Feliciano, Turang, Ashby.

That’s probably be fairly close. My first though is it would be pretty hard to match up without another really good prospect to go with Mitchell.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#8

Posted: July 16, 2021, 1:17 PM Post
Posts: 1577
Location: Ohio
Just a point of reference for Brewer Fans:

From Zack Meisel (of The Athletic) reported this morning:

The Indians preference is to keep (Jose) Ramírez, perhaps even extend him. Payroll shouldn’t inhibit that; there’s not a single player on the roster owed a nickel beyond this season (other than arbitration and club contract options), and a new minority investor should eventually pump some more cash into the operation. Ramírez would welcome the chance to negotiate a long-term deal, according to sources, and it seems like something the two sides could explore during the offseason or spring training.

----------------------

To take this further, other info (not from Meisel): there have also been extension talks with Shane Bieber.. CLE ownership is seeing both players as 'face of franchise' types and important on and off the field as a new team name is coming for the club..


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#9

Posted: July 20, 2021, 10:56 AM Post
Posts: 6381
Location: New Berlin, WI
stoutdude04 said:
Someone proposed a Ramirez for Hiura, Perez, Faliciano, and Zamora trade to which the talking heads agreed was a good trade.

Am I wrong in thinking this is too much? Am I overvaluing our prospects?


Perez has been getting a fair amount of hype in prospect circles. The Indians would have to really love Perez and really still believe in Hiura for that to be enough. I have a hard time seeing a package that doesn't include Mitchell. Maybe if they wanted Hiura and/or Urias then we could probably avoid trading Mitchell but those 2 obviously wouldn't be enough.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#10

Posted: July 20, 2021, 11:41 AM Post
Posts: 999
I think you have to put Urias in the trade. Which wouldn’t be great in 2 years or so when Wong and JRam are FA and we have 2 positions to fill. But it does make a JRam trade more realistic.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#11

Posted: July 20, 2021, 7:01 PM Post
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Posts: 1682
Jose Ramirez is listed at 5’9” guys. I wouldn’t trade shAw for him. Shaw is tall, so he must be better.

"Did I ever tell you how I became a Postman Abby? I don't know if you'd laugh or cry"-The Postman


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#12

Posted: October 15, 2021, 10:21 AM Post
Posts: 1136
Fire up the Jose Ramirez trade chatter.

Guy is a 6.7 war guy. Has played 150 plus games in 4 of last 5 full seasons (129 in other). Two team options left at $13 and $11 million. This is a guy I’d trade the farm for. Instantly slots into the middle of the order.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#13

Posted: October 15, 2021, 7:11 PM Post
Posts: 2608
Location: Madison, WI
Considering he's down to just 2 years left, I think Garrett Mitchell + Brice Turang + Ethan Small + another Top 30 guys a ways down the list (Carlo Rodriguez) would make a pretty reasonable deal. Don't think any deal that strictly involves minor leaguers happens if Mitchell isn't involved.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#14

Posted: October 15, 2021, 7:54 PM Post
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JosephC said:
Considering he's down to just 2 years left, I think Garrett Mitchell + Brice Turang + Ethan Small + another Top 30 guys a ways down the list (Carlo Rodriguez) would make a pretty reasonable deal. Don't think any deal that strictly involves minor leaguers happens if Mitchell isn't involved.


That seems pretty reasonable and I do that trade in a heartbeat if I’m the Brewers. Trade for Ramirez and sign a guy like Castellanos and suddenly your offense is no longer mediocre.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#15

Posted: October 16, 2021, 6:58 AM Post
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JosephC said:
Considering he's down to just 2 years left, I think Garrett Mitchell + Brice Turang + Ethan Small + another Top 30 guys a ways down the list (Carlo Rodriguez) would make a pretty reasonable deal. Don't think any deal that strictly involves minor leaguers happens if Mitchell isn't involved.

The thing I never know about Cleveland is whether they would actually accept a deal that only involves prospects all with an ETA of over a year? They still have a strong pitching staff and could reasonably consider themselves contenders for a playoff spot over the next couple of seasons. When they traded Lindor the return included major league ready players in addition to prospects. Could including players like Urias or Taylor in addition to prospects be a necessity on Guardians side of things?


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#16

Posted: October 16, 2021, 7:44 AM Post
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Really good point Eye Black. Maybe something like Urias, Houser/Lauer, and one high end prospect? All major league ready and have already had success in the major leagues.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#17

Posted: October 16, 2021, 10:12 AM Post
Posts: 1577
Location: Ohio
CLE has a 40 man issue this offseason with a ton of talent in the minors needing to be added to the roster (or gets exposed in the Rule 5). They could roster as many as 12 players & there are multiple players that are middle INF types. None of those prime prospects were ready for MLB in 2021 so the Lindor trade netted a few bridge guys in Amed Rosario & Andres Gimenez.

With all those near ready pieces (INF & pitching especially), it is more likely CLE looks to deal a handful of them for the other items they need.

I doubt JRam is dealt (more likely an extension candidate with the team name change & his agent is known for getting clients extended) but if he was shopped, CLE would have needs in the OF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something to keep an eye on: the new ChiCubs GM (Carter Hawkins) just came from the CLE ranks.

There are a number of young players he has been closely involved with in the CLE organization. With a limited Cubs farm system he could use Ian Happ or Wilson Contreras as chips to CLE to get some good talent (either blue chip or multiple good prospects) to jump start the rebuild for the Cubs.


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Online  Re: Jose Ramirez
#18

Posted: October 17, 2021, 3:52 PM Post
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What about J-Ram for a package centered around Freddy Peralta (it would still take more)? I don't want to give up Peralta, but pretty clearly we have a huge area of strength (starting pitching) and a huge area of weakness (1B/3B offense).


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Online  Re: Jose Ramirez
#19

Posted: October 17, 2021, 4:05 PM Post
Posts: 26757
SRB said:
What about J-Ram for a package centered around Freddy Peralta (it would still take more)? I don't want to give up Peralta, but pretty clearly we have a huge area of strength (starting pitching) and a huge area of weakness (1B/3B offense).


As good as Ramirez is, 2 years of him is not worth more than 5 cheap controlled years of Peralta.

And that's a hard pass from me regardless, I wouldn't do Freddy for JRam straight up. Freddy is a very important part of our success and for where we are at right now I'd much rather deal from the farm or bullpen than fix one hole by creating another.

The control on Freddy is very valuable, he's the only one of the big 3 that we have committed beyond '24.


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Offline  Re: Jose Ramirez
#20

Posted: October 17, 2021, 8:58 PM Post
Posts: 1577
Location: Ohio
adambr2 said:
SRB said:
What about J-Ram for a package centered around Freddy Peralta (it would still take more)? I don't want to give up Peralta, but pretty clearly we have a huge area of strength (starting pitching) and a huge area of weakness (1B/3B offense).


As good as Ramirez is, 2 years of him is not worth more than 5 cheap controlled years of Peralta.

And that's a hard pass from me regardless, I wouldn't do Freddy for JRam straight up. Freddy is a very important part of our success and for where we are at right now I'd much rather deal from the farm or bullpen than fix one hole by creating another.

The control on Freddy is very valuable, he's the only one of the big 3 that we have committed beyond '24.


I understand the value of Freddy Peralta... He has much value but his value is likely greater with another club.
CLE lost over 30 starts from its top 3 starters (Bieber, Civale, Plesac) in 2021. That allowed opportunities that some (Cal Quantrill, Triston McKenzie, Eli Morgan) seized while others (Logan S Allen, Sam Hentges, JC Mejia) squandered. On top of that there are a handful of other CLE pitching prospects that will be added to the 40 man roster this offseason.

There is chatter that CLE might be looking to deal some of its SP depth in order to add needed pieces to the existing roster.
It will be interesting to see how it shakes out..


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