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Turang for sale??

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Offline  Re: Turang for sale??
#21

Posted: July 23, 2021, 9:56 PM Post
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Jopal78! said:
Like I said, it depends who they could get in a package of players including Urias. Maybe you can flip Urias for Kyle Gibson. He's a 3.4 WAR player this year just moving him into the rotation and moving Anderson or Houser to the pen in place of Perdomo or Gustave etc. More than makes up for Urias AND allows the Brewers to lean less heavily on their Big 3 as they pitch more innings than they have before as pros.

I wouldn’t mind the Brewers trading for a starting pitcher, but giving up Luis Urias for 1.5 years of Kyle Gibson is likely a zero sum game at best, with a high likelihood to be disastrous. Gibson has benefited from throwing 56 innings this season at pitcher friendly Globe Life Field. I wouldn’t have any faith in his season stat line continuing post trade. I would expect Gibson to regress towards his career norms, and that’s just too steep of a price to pay for someone that wouldn’t slot into the first three of your playoff rotation.


Jopal78! said:
Turang just isn't going to bring as much back for Milwaukee. The reality is there's a ton of prospect love on these boards, but Turang in 2021 isn't a Dansby Swanson or Trea Turner. In fact a shortstop in AA with a career OPS of .722 as a pro isn't a sure bet to see the big leagues. Urias on the other hand already has had success in the major leagues.

Trying to prove any point using “career” Double-A stats for someone playing at the level for the first time who is more than 3.5 years young for the league seems disingenuous. Turang still has a lot of development to go, but he has the pedigree and potential to become a good major league player. Trent Grisham played in Double-A at Biloxi for the first time as a 21 year old (same age as Turang) and had a .693 OPS over 405 plate appearances. Grisham’s slugging percentage was also 60 points lower than Turang’s is currently.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see anyone try to compare him those players mentioned (Swanson, Turner)? Turang is far from any sort of sure thing [obviously], but he still has more trade value than any Brewers prospect outside of Garrett Mitchell.

Turang isn’t close to being a finished product at this point, and the ceiling he has if he reaches his 75th percentile outcome or better is plenty high enough that he’ll maintain trade appeal for rebuilding teams. If a team is looking for certainty over ceiling, then sure Turang probably isn’t as appealing, but I think there are plenty of teams that would place a high value on his future potential.


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#22

Posted: July 24, 2021, 7:20 AM Post
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Eye Black said:
Trying to prove any point using “career” Double-A stats for someone playing at the level for the first time who is more than 3.5 years young for the league seems disingenuous. Turang still has a lot of development to go, but he has the pedigree and potential to become a good major league player. Trent Grisham played in Double-A at Biloxi for the first time as a 21 year old (same age as Turang) and had a .693 OPS over 405 plate appearances. Grisham’s slugging percentage was also 60 points lower than Turang’s is currently.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see anyone try to compare him those players mentioned (Swanson, Turner)? Turang is far from any sort of sure thing [obviously], but he still has more trade value than any Brewers prospect outside of Garrett Mitchell.

Turang isn’t close to being a finished product at this point, and the ceiling he has if he reaches his 75th percentile outcome or better is plenty high enough that he’ll maintain trade appeal for rebuilding teams. If a team is looking for certainty over ceiling, then sure Turang probably isn’t as appealing, but I think there are plenty of teams that would place a high value on his future potential.


Based on what? Some journalist’s “top prospect lists”? The scouting report when he was drafted was there were questions about his bat (why he was still available at #21 overall in the draft). 3+ years into his pro-career those questions still exist. Maybe he ends up reaching that 60 (20-80 scale) potential hit tool, and 40 power tool but he isn’t there now and it’s all speculation if/when he gets there.

He’s not a pitcher, he doesn’t have a dominant tool, he’s years away from the major leagues if he gets there at all. If you think he has the most value outside of Garret Mitchell we’ll just have to agree to disagree.


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#23

Posted: July 24, 2021, 3:17 PM Post
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Jopal78! said:
Based on what? Some journalist’s “top prospect lists”? The scouting report when he was drafted was there were questions about his bat (why he was still available at #21 overall in the draft). 3+ years into his pro-career those questions still exist. Maybe he ends up reaching that 60 (20-80 scale) potential hit tool, and 40 power tool but he isn’t there now and it’s all speculation if/when he gets there.

He’s not a pitcher, he doesn’t have a dominant tool, he’s years away from the major leagues if he gets there at all. If you think he has the most value outside of Garret Mitchell we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Being taken in the first round of the draft is typically an indication scouts and teams think you’re good at baseball. Also, while he may have been drafted 21st overall, he signed for the 15th largest bonus amount in 2018 ($3.411 million). Among all drafted high school players (those whom he had similar leverage as) only six signed for higher draft bonuses that year.

Turang’s likelihood of being a major leaguer seems pretty high since he already has the defensive skills to play the middle infield at the highest level, and is a plus runner. He doesn’t need to become an elite offensive player to be an every day major leaguer.

Regarding more recent scouting reports on his hitting, he was reportedly one of the most consistent hitters at the Brewers alternate site last summer, and led their internal “barrel board” according to Baseball America. He has added strength as well as changed both his approach and swing over the past year. He’s always shown good plate discipline, and he now reportedly has a shorter swing and is showing more power to his pull-side. Biloxi can be a difficult place for young hitters to perform, and Turang currently has a 102 wRC+. He is also carrying by far the lowest strikeout rate (15.8%) of any qualified hitter in Double-A that’s 21 years old or younger (next closest is Toronto’s Jordan Groshans at 20.3%). His walk rate has plummeted quite a bit this season (which may be part of his approach change), but for his career it has typically been very good.

Turang remains one of the better hopes the Brewers have had in recent years to develop a solid every day position player. If they decide to trade him to win now, that’s fine, but I don’t think suggesting “Turang won’t bring Milwaukee much back in trade” is true. And if it were true then they certainly shouldn’t trade him at this point.


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#24

Posted: July 24, 2021, 3:45 PM Post
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He has a very good hit tool. He has always lacked pop, but as Eye Black aptly points out, he’s considerably young for AA and has room to get stronger and drive the ball into gaps more. He also bats left handed and plays a premium position. He has more than plus speed. He carries himself with confidence that instills belief in him. You put that all together and he’s an attractive prospect. He’s going to hit, get on base, run, play middle infield, bring a lefthanded bat. Those are a lot of positive factors that outweigh any concern over his slugging. Not many prospects have that long of a list of attributes. I think you’re talking about a guy who will play every day in the middle infield, get on base, and run. With all the player control he carries, he fits the profile of a guy Stearns will want to keep unless he gets controllable talent back. If he’s dealt for somebody with less than two years of control (i.e., a rental or a semi-rental), it would be for an impact player. I couldn’t disagree more that he lacks value and I am confident Stearns and Arnold wouldn’t disagree with anything I just said. IMO.


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#25

Posted: July 27, 2021, 8:23 AM Post
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I doubt the Red Sox would give up Sale. [smile]


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#26

Posted: July 29, 2021, 9:34 PM Post
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Austin Tatious said:
He has a very good hit tool. He has always lacked pop, but as Eye Black aptly points out, he’s considerably young for AA and has room to get stronger and drive the ball into gaps more. He also bats left handed and plays a premium position. He has more than plus speed. He carries himself with confidence that instills belief in him. You put that all together and he’s an attractive prospect. He’s going to hit, get on base, run, play middle infield, bring a lefthanded bat. Those are a lot of positive factors that outweigh any concern over his slugging. Not many prospects have that long of a list of attributes. I think you’re talking about a guy who will play every day in the middle infield, get on base, and run. With all the player control he carries, he fits the profile of a guy Stearns will want to keep unless he gets controllable talent back. If he’s dealt for somebody with less than two years of control (i.e., a rental or a semi-rental), it would be for an impact player. I couldn’t disagree more that he lacks value and I am confident Stearns and Arnold wouldn’t disagree with anything I just said. IMO.


I think Turang is a good-defense, high-contact SS/2B. What has set off alarm bells for me is the drop in his walk rate. Even when he struggled in A+ in 2019, he drew LOTS of walks. Right now, he could be "sold" high. Honestly, I think the Brewers would have been better off dealing HIM for Escobar instead of Hummel, given their need for a long-term solution at first (and Ernesto Martinez is in Low-A).


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#27

Posted: July 29, 2021, 9:37 PM Post
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clancyphile said:
Austin Tatious said:
He has a very good hit tool. He has always lacked pop, but as Eye Black aptly points out, he’s considerably young for AA and has room to get stronger and drive the ball into gaps more. He also bats left handed and plays a premium position. He has more than plus speed. He carries himself with confidence that instills belief in him. You put that all together and he’s an attractive prospect. He’s going to hit, get on base, run, play middle infield, bring a lefthanded bat. Those are a lot of positive factors that outweigh any concern over his slugging. Not many prospects have that long of a list of attributes. I think you’re talking about a guy who will play every day in the middle infield, get on base, and run. With all the player control he carries, he fits the profile of a guy Stearns will want to keep unless he gets controllable talent back. If he’s dealt for somebody with less than two years of control (i.e., a rental or a semi-rental), it would be for an impact player. I couldn’t disagree more that he lacks value and I am confident Stearns and Arnold wouldn’t disagree with anything I just said. IMO.


I think Turang is a good-defense, high-contact SS/2B. What has set off alarm bells for me is the drop in his walk rate. Even when he struggled in A+ in 2019, he drew LOTS of walks. Right now, he could be "sold" high. Honestly, I think the Brewers would have been better off dealing HIM for Escobar instead of Hummel, given their need for a long-term solution at first (and Ernesto Martinez is in Low-A).


You think Hummel and Turang have the same value? Ugh, what?


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#28

Posted: July 29, 2021, 9:39 PM Post
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titletownking said:
clancyphile said:
Austin Tatious said:
He has a very good hit tool. He has always lacked pop, but as Eye Black aptly points out, he’s considerably young for AA and has room to get stronger and drive the ball into gaps more. He also bats left handed and plays a premium position. He has more than plus speed. He carries himself with confidence that instills belief in him. You put that all together and he’s an attractive prospect. He’s going to hit, get on base, run, play middle infield, bring a lefthanded bat. Those are a lot of positive factors that outweigh any concern over his slugging. Not many prospects have that long of a list of attributes. I think you’re talking about a guy who will play every day in the middle infield, get on base, and run. With all the player control he carries, he fits the profile of a guy Stearns will want to keep unless he gets controllable talent back. If he’s dealt for somebody with less than two years of control (i.e., a rental or a semi-rental), it would be for an impact player. I couldn’t disagree more that he lacks value and I am confident Stearns and Arnold wouldn’t disagree with anything I just said. IMO.


I think Turang is a good-defense, high-contact SS/2B. What has set off alarm bells for me is the drop in his walk rate. Even when he struggled in A+ in 2019, he drew LOTS of walks. Right now, he could be "sold" high. Honestly, I think the Brewers would have been better off dealing HIM for Escobar instead of Hummel, given their need for a long-term solution at first (and Ernesto Martinez is in Low-A).


You think Hummel and Turang have the same value? Ugh, what?


Right ... that one is a tad over the top, even for clancy.


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#29

Posted: July 29, 2021, 9:45 PM Post
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clancyphile said:
Honestly, I think the Brewers would have been better off dealing HIM for Escobar instead of Hummel, given their need for a long-term solution at first (and Ernesto Martinez is in Low-A).


Rowdy has looked pretty good at 1B so far & is under team control for three more seasons.


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#30

Posted: July 29, 2021, 9:52 PM Post
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clancyphile said:
Austin Tatious said:
He has a very good hit tool. He has always lacked pop, but as Eye Black aptly points out, he’s considerably young for AA and has room to get stronger and drive the ball into gaps more. He also bats left handed and plays a premium position. He has more than plus speed. He carries himself with confidence that instills belief in him. You put that all together and he’s an attractive prospect. He’s going to hit, get on base, run, play middle infield, bring a lefthanded bat. Those are a lot of positive factors that outweigh any concern over his slugging. Not many prospects have that long of a list of attributes. I think you’re talking about a guy who will play every day in the middle infield, get on base, and run. With all the player control he carries, he fits the profile of a guy Stearns will want to keep unless he gets controllable talent back. If he’s dealt for somebody with less than two years of control (i.e., a rental or a semi-rental), it would be for an impact player. I couldn’t disagree more that he lacks value and I am confident Stearns and Arnold wouldn’t disagree with anything I just said. IMO.


I think Turang is a good-defense, high-contact SS/2B. What has set off alarm bells for me is the drop in his walk rate. Even when he struggled in A+ in 2019, he drew LOTS of walks. Right now, he could be "sold" high. Honestly, I think the Brewers would have been better off dealing HIM for Escobar instead of Hummel, given their need for a long-term solution at first (and Ernesto Martinez is in Low-A).


I know you really, really love 26-year old Hummel a great deal, but to say that the Brewers should've traded Brice Turang for a few months of Eduardo Escobar sounds like sour grapes. Brice is a 21 year old 1st round pick who's rated by almost all prospect evaluators around the game as a top 3 prospect in the Brewers system, and is currently #74 in MLB Pipeline's Top 100. He's hitting .272 in Double A while he's ~3.5 years younger than his competition, and while his walk rate has dropped a bit, it's still good. You didn't bother to mention that his strikeout rate has also dropped significantly, and his ISO is at a career high. Again, he's very young for the level he is performing pretty well at.

If the Brewers deal Turang, it will be as part of a package for a controllable player coming back, because his value is almost infinitely higher than a 26 year old guy without a real position who hasn't tasted the big leagues yet.


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#31

Posted: August 03, 2021, 6:03 PM Post
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Turang still with the club and he just got promoted to AAA today. Excited to see what he can do there but hard to see a path to the majors for him.


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#32

Posted: August 03, 2021, 7:24 PM Post
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jonescm128 said:
Turang still with the club and he just got promoted to AAA today. Excited to see what he can do there but hard to see a path to the majors for him.


I think it's pretty obvious the Brewers legitimately like him. Actions speak loudly. Also, look at the quotes by Counsell. He's high on him.

As for his track to Milwaukee, I expect him to marinate at AAA for awhile. Beyond that, he could potentially come up initially in a utility role to get acclimated to at bats in the big show. Beyond that, Wong is on a 2/3 year deal that times up well for Turang to take over 2b. Or, possibly, Adames goes to third and Turang goes to SS. There are scenarios and these things always work out. If someone produces (in any job), there will be opportunities provided.


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#33

Posted: August 04, 2021, 6:52 AM Post
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Austin Tatious said:
jonescm128 said:
Turang still with the club and he just got promoted to AAA today. Excited to see what he can do there but hard to see a path to the majors for him.


I think it's pretty obvious the Brewers legitimately like him. Actions speak loudly. Also, look at the quotes by Counsell. He's high on him.

As for his track to Milwaukee, I expect him to marinate at AAA for awhile. Beyond that, he could potentially come up initially in a utility role to get acclimated to at bats in the big show. Beyond that, Wong is on a 2/3 year deal that times up well for Turang to take over 2b. Or, possibly, Adames goes to third and Turang goes to SS. There are scenarios and these things always work out. If someone produces (in any job), there will be opportunities provided.


Hell, with all the Covid cases popping up on this team he might get an opportunity this year.


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#34

Posted: August 04, 2021, 7:53 AM Post
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jonescm128 said:
Turang still with the club and he just got promoted to AAA today. Excited to see what he can do there but hard to see a path to the majors for him.


If he fulfills the potential the Brewers think he has, then there's always a path to the majors. Or the Brewers create one for him. Add a position besides 2B/SS to his repertoire (CF or 3B probably makes the most sense) to give him the ability to take a utility spot. Or add one to another player. If he looks truly great then you can trade one of the starters for a haul. But really, the simple truth is that you need more than 8 starters, if he's good enough then there is a roster spot for him in 2022 even if Adames and Wong keep playing as well as they have. There will always be injuries, need for rest days and so on. Having too many good players is never a real problem, especially not someone who can be optioned if need be.

With everyone controllable through at least 2023, I quite like the potential of Urias, Adames, Wong and Turang to man 2B/SS/3B. Urias can play all 3 (Though should mainly be 3B/2B), Turang 2B/SS. Add 3B to Turang or Adames and you have a strong group to mix and match with, while giving everyone plenty of playing time. Simply having a second true SS on the roster is big, and I always feel it's a bit risky whenever the Brewers don't have that, usually due to the demands on a 4-man bench.

Again, all this is if he shows himself MLB-ready sooner rather than later. He might never. Or it might take a bit longer, he's only 21 still after all. But I don't really understand so much of the skepticism around here. He's been aggressively promoted, very young for his level at every step of the way. Even when he "struggled" at A+ he was still almost 4 years young for the level. And that was still an 88 wRC+, with great plate discipline (16% walk rate) but an unusually low BABIP for such a fast spray hitter. And this is for a guy who is an elite defender and great baserunner. Being a league average hitter at that age, with that skillset and contributing greatly while not at the plate is why he's rightly one of our top prospects. Grisham was another one who was only average to slightly above average at the plate in the minors, was always very young for his level and got pushed fast. And so many on here saw him as a bust before his 2019 breakout. Which isn't to say Turang takes the same path, there are also Orlando Arcias out there. I just feel he's a guy you hold on to and see what you get.


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#35

Posted: August 04, 2021, 8:23 AM Post
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I think the knock on Turang will always be that he doesn't hit for enough power....while he'll never be a 30HR MLBer, he simply doesn't need to be at the defensive positions he plays, and I think there will be enough pop from him during his prime years once he fills out a bit more and fully develops. He can fly, is a plus defender at SS and 2B, and isn't a strikeout machine at the plate.

There's a reason he was initially viewed as a potential #1 overall pick the summer before his senior year in high school - his stock fell a bit that allowed him to slip to #21 for the Brewers to nab him, but he's shown that he's a MLB-caliber talent throughout his minor league career to date. Reaching AAA before his 22nd birthday is pretty impressive.


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#36

Posted: August 05, 2021, 7:43 AM Post
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Fear The Chorizo said:
I think the knock on Turang will always be that he doesn't hit for enough power....while he'll never be a 30HR MLBer, he simply doesn't need to be at the defensive positions he plays, and I think there will be enough pop from him during his prime years once he fills out a bit more and fully develops. He can fly, is a plus defender at SS and 2B, and isn't a strikeout machine at the plate.

There's a reason he was initially viewed as a potential #1 overall pick the summer before his senior year in high school - his stock fell a bit that allowed him to slip to #21 for the Brewers to nab him, but he's shown that he's a MLB-caliber talent throughout his minor league career to date. Reaching AAA before his 22nd birthday is pretty impressive.


Definitely. He is 5.7 years younger than the average position player in AAA.


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#37

Posted: September 02, 2021, 6:43 AM Post
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jonescm128 said:
Fear The Chorizo said:
I think the knock on Turang will always be that he doesn't hit for enough power....while he'll never be a 30HR MLBer, he simply doesn't need to be at the defensive positions he plays, and I think there will be enough pop from him during his prime years once he fills out a bit more and fully develops. He can fly, is a plus defender at SS and 2B, and isn't a strikeout machine at the plate.

There's a reason he was initially viewed as a potential #1 overall pick the summer before his senior year in high school - his stock fell a bit that allowed him to slip to #21 for the Brewers to nab him, but he's shown that he's a MLB-caliber talent throughout his minor league career to date. Reaching AAA before his 22nd birthday is pretty impressive.


Definitely. He is 5.7 years younger than the average position player in AAA.


You can't use average age for comparison in AAA. The other minors sure. But when you have players like Tim Dillard in AAA, it doesn't make sense to even use that stat.


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#38

Posted: September 02, 2021, 7:29 AM Post
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Roderick said:
jonescm128 said:
Fear The Chorizo said:
I think the knock on Turang will always be that he doesn't hit for enough power....while he'll never be a 30HR MLBer, he simply doesn't need to be at the defensive positions he plays, and I think there will be enough pop from him during his prime years once he fills out a bit more and fully develops. He can fly, is a plus defender at SS and 2B, and isn't a strikeout machine at the plate.

There's a reason he was initially viewed as a potential #1 overall pick the summer before his senior year in high school - his stock fell a bit that allowed him to slip to #21 for the Brewers to nab him, but he's shown that he's a MLB-caliber talent throughout his minor league career to date. Reaching AAA before his 22nd birthday is pretty impressive.


Definitely. He is 5.7 years younger than the average position player in AAA.


You can't use average age for comparison in AAA. The other minors sure. But when you have players like Tim Dillard in AAA, it doesn't make sense to even use that stat.


Splitting hairs, but Turang reaching AAA in what really isn't even his 3rd full minor league season is pretty impressive, particularly given the fact he was a H.S. draftee. There was no season in 2020 due to COVID, and 2018 was just a partial year right after he was drafted.


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#39

Posted: September 02, 2021, 11:14 AM Post
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Fear The Chorizo said:
I think the knock on Turang will always be that he doesn't hit for enough power....while he'll never be a 30HR MLBer,


I believe this was the consensus on Luis Urias coming up as well, and he definitely looks now like a guy who could hit 30 HR at some point in his career.


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#40

Posted: September 02, 2021, 12:05 PM Post
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SRB said:
Fear The Chorizo said:
I think the knock on Turang will always be that he doesn't hit for enough power....while he'll never be a 30HR MLBer,


I believe this was the consensus on Luis Urias coming up as well, and he definitely looks now like a guy who could hit 30 HR at some point in his career.


Sure, but Turang has 10 HR spread across about 1000 minor league at bats, while Urias hit 36 minor league home runs at equivalent ages, including 19HR in AAA as a 22 yr old in only 340 at bats. Granted, Urias' power explosion in AAA came at launching pad El Paso.

I have a hard time seeing Turang's power potential going from a 5-10HR MLB player to 30 in the next few years, especially because that 5-10HR amount is still projecting him to find more slugging than what he currently has. Because of his speed and defensive ability, Brice doesn't have to hit for huge power to be a very good MLB player, though.


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