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Is this offseason time to trade Hader?

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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#41

Posted: September 30, 2021, 12:46 PM Post
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reillymcshane said:
With William's injury, I think it's less likely the team considers trading Hader this off season since Williams likely would have taken the closer role. Can't say it won't happen - the Williams' injury might make a deal less likely.


At this point, they may as well hang onto Hader until his final season of team control and see where they are at in the success cycle. With their bevy of starting pitchers healthy, they'll likely remain competitive and continue to have a real use for an elite late inning relief pitcher. Now couple that with the fact should the Brewers remain a contending team they're unlikely to trade Hader to a fellow competitor in the NL, and therefore the market for him narrows significantly again making any trade less likely.


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#42

Posted: September 30, 2021, 2:13 PM Post
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Ron Robinson's Beard said:
Roderick said:
Ron Robinson's Beard said:
It all depends on how Williams recovers from the injury. The guy does things with the baseball that very few people are able to do. Will that change now that he needs surgery to fix broken bones in his pitching hand? That remains to be seen.


Even if he comes back from injury fine, how can you trust him going forward? Nope, can't trade Hader this offseason now.


So the guy makes a stupid mistake and punches a wall ... and now cannot be trusted under any circumstance going forward? Wow, tough crowd.


I'm not going to trust him to be the only known stopper in the bullpen going into next year. No.

If he isn't smart enough to punch with his offhand... He will have to earn back trust.


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#43

Posted: September 30, 2021, 3:30 PM Post
Posts: 1410
"If he isn't smart enough to punch with his offhand... He will have to earn back trust."

Granted I'm not getting paid for what I do with my dominant hand, but if I was angry enough to punch a wall, I'm not sure I'd have the wherewithal to switch the punching to my off hand.


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#44

Posted: September 30, 2021, 4:56 PM Post
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stalton said:
"If he isn't smart enough to punch with his offhand... He will have to earn back trust."

Granted I'm not getting paid for what I do with my dominant hand, but if I was angry enough to punch a wall, I'm not sure I'd have the wherewithal to switch the punching to my off hand.


Even if it meant exiting the playoffs and the chance to lose millions of dollars?

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#45

Posted: October 12, 2021, 7:21 PM Post
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I don't see a scenario where the Brewers improve offensively without going beyond their targeted budget so Hader looks to be the most likely player to be traded this offseason.

I am not sure if the Brewers get full value but he is more than likely going to be the one who gets traded this offseason.


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#46

Posted: October 12, 2021, 7:41 PM Post
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I’m 100% on board with dealing Hader this offseason to bolster the offense. What we could get in return, I don’t know.

But if he refuses to go more than 1 inning even in the postseason, and if he’s going to be shaky anyways in the postseason, I’m fine with dealing him.


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#47

Posted: October 12, 2021, 7:47 PM Post
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Location: Central PA
This off-season could be the time for it to happen. Doing so would also include acquiring a closer to replace him, likely in free agency. Can’t think that the team would turn to Williams as a closer at this point, particularly after the self-injury escapade.

If Hader isn’t moved—or maybe in addition to him being moved—I wouldn’t be shocked to see a trade involving Woodruff.


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#48

Posted: October 12, 2021, 8:03 PM Post
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Good luck bolstering the offense via Hader. You might get a younger/controllable/cheaper Avisail Garcia type after you trade Hader for prospects and flip them for a bat. Just make Attanasio open his wallet for a marginal bat if that is what you want.

Not sure I’d support any trade involving Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta.

Just implode the farm. It won’t matter in 3-4 years.


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#49

Posted: October 13, 2021, 9:06 AM Post
Posts: 1221
I think a Hader deal makes a lot of sense this offseason. A team like San Diego or Philadelphia, who might be able to package a current bat with some prospects?

Does a deal with San Diego for a guy like CJ Cronenworth and some minor league arms make sense? Or is that just dumb one way or another?


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#50

Posted: October 13, 2021, 12:00 PM Post
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Location: Mukwonago,WI
Philly is interesting a deal around Bohm (who is a 1B defensively, he is awful at 3rd), Stott and some interesting arms may be ok but I have to think there is better out there..


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#51

Posted: October 13, 2021, 12:25 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
Good luck bolstering the offense via Hader. You might get a younger/controllable/cheaper Avisail Garcia type after you trade Hader for prospects and flip them for a bat. Just make Attanasio open his wallet for a marginal bat if that is what you want.


The thing about trading Hader is not only would you get the younger, cheaper player(s) back in the trade, but you would also free up around $25M in payroll over the next two seasons, which could allow you to add even more talent.

MrTPlush said:
Not sure I’d support any trade involving Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta.


Me either. Not this offseason. I would like to see them traded prior to departing for free agency, but I wouldn't trade them this offseason.

MrTPlush said:
Just implode the farm. It won’t matter in 3-4 years.


I really don't want to go with this strategy. We would be utterly horrible for at least a decade if we trade away all our prospects now and hold everyone to free agency. No thanks.


We certainly don't have to trade Hader this offseason, and if the return isn't there we shouldn't trade him just to trade him, but I would certainly put him on the market and see what people offer.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

~Bill Walsh


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#52

Posted: October 13, 2021, 12:42 PM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
As others have said, with the starting P they have they are likely going to be competitors for the next few years. However, with how weak the O is it leads to tons of close low scoring games. Obviously having the best closer is extremely important in those situations so he might be more valuable in our situation than what a closer would normally be valued. As stressful and tough to navigate these games are already, think how much more difficult it would be if you basically didn't know that if you got to the 9th it's over.

think they'd have to be overwhelmed and get a ML bat back for him. So probably need to look at contending teams with strong offenses that could afford to give up some hitting. Or due to being strong on O have good guys being blocked.


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#53

Posted: October 13, 2021, 9:05 PM Post
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I think there are many reason for Stearns & Co to consider trading Hader this offseason. He will be making 8 figures next season which will hinder their ability to attract a big bat in free agency.

I also think Garcia will likely opt out which leads me to target someone like Nick Castellanos to replace him. If we can flip Hader for some cheap MLB ready players or upper minors prospects we would basically be adding little to our existing payroll to acquire a middle of the order bar like mentioned above.

I also feel we have several quality arms besides Williams who are capable of pitching in high leverage situations out of the pen. I guess only time will tell if there is a team willing to pony up for Hader and the Brewers are willing to part ways with arguably the best closer in baseball while their window is still wide open.


Last edited by bdpecore on October 14, 2021, 6:24 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#54

Posted: October 14, 2021, 6:27 AM Post
Posts: 1146
Lots of question marks for the bullpen this coming year.
Strickland, Suter, Box played a large role this year and are free agents. We are assuming Williams heals fine and is dominate again. I’m cautious with that seeing what happened to Yelich. Different injury and position yes, but throwing hand none the less.

Hader really is the only one you know what you’ll get out of. Rest of the pen could be league min guys that balance out his larger salary.

I think it was Plush who said it. But you don’t trade Hader if you’re serious about contending. He’s an elite closer. And any return for him will be underwhelming for his value to the team.


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#55

Posted: October 14, 2021, 7:01 AM Post
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bdpecore said:

I also feel we have several quality arms besides Williams who are capable of pitching in high leverage situations out of the pen.


Please list those "several" players that you would trust with closing duties...

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#56

Posted: October 14, 2021, 7:36 AM Post
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turborickey said:
bdpecore said:

I also feel we have several quality arms besides Williams who are capable of pitching in high leverage situations out of the pen.


Please list those "several" players that you would trust with closing duties...


Yeah not sure there are any. Cousins was good but you can't really throw him into a closers role. Curious to see what their plan is with Ashby. I know they have said they still view him as a starter but with Woodruff, Burnes, Peralta, Lauer, Houser and possibly Ethan Small there are a lot of starters there. I wouldn't hate putting Ashby in that 2018 Hader role...


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#57

Posted: October 14, 2021, 7:58 AM Post
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I'd like to keep Ashby as a starter, ease Small into a bullpen role like they have done with others in the past, and hive him as a starter as well by 2023.

I would not be against trading one of Lauer or Houser for a bat while their value is semi-high, of course, that would mean other teams would value them as much as we do.

I just have a hard time dealing from out current starter supply. Going into next season with our starting rotation in tact is a great feeling!

2022 starting Rotation:

1. Burnes
2. Woodruff
3. Peralta
4. Ashby
5. Houser/Lauer

With Small taking over a bullpen role, and becoming a fulltime starter in 2023 or 2024 at the latest.

I mean, that is just sick!

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#58

Posted: October 14, 2021, 9:16 AM Post
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As much as I love Ashby and his potential. Let’s get the guy some help throwing strikes consistently. He is a hit to erratic to count on at this point for high leverage situations.


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#59

Posted: October 14, 2021, 10:58 AM Post
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ThisIsMyCrew said:
I think it was Plush who said it. But you don’t trade Hader if you’re serious about contending. He’s an elite closer. And any return for him will be underwhelming for his value to the team.


I don't buy the theory that "you can't be serious about winning" if you ever trade a good player or if you fail to spend a ton of money on a guy.

The Brewers are a small revenue / small payroll team. They are at a significant disadvantage to teams that can spend a lot of money, so they have to be very smart with things like team control and player cost. Few small market teams have ever shown "sustained success," but the two who have shown some success are the A's and the Rays. I would argue that both of them "are serious about winning," and both of them have traded away good players as the price tag gets higher and the team control gets smaller.

Trading away a guy like Hader hurts in one area, but can help in others. They will get young talent back from the team they trade Hader to, and they will not have to pay Hader, so they will have some money to either acquire other players, or to help them afford the pay raises to other guys on their team. I think Stearns has earned some trust from the fans, and if Hader is traded, there is a good chance that they could end up being a better team... certainly in the long-run and possibly even in the short-run.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

~Bill Walsh


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Offline  Re: Is this offseason time to trade Hader?
#60

Posted: October 14, 2021, 12:23 PM Post
Posts: 10285
Murray implies in the podcast that Hader has some personal animosity towards the organization ( not CC ). I’m assuming it has to do with losing his last arbitration case but obviously I have no idea.

https://twitter.com/fansidedmlb/status/ ... 01608?s=21


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