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job-seeker contacts/advice

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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: November 12, 2017, 4:37 AM Post
Posts: 716
BrewersSuperCollector said:
The new job really doesn't pay anymore money with your added expenses,so pay can be taken out of the equation. What is the difference in health insurance and 401k benefits?


They would still be the same. I would still be making more money at this new job, i think roughly 1/4 of the raise would be eaten up by those added expenses.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: November 12, 2017, 5:04 AM Post
Posts: 716
GAME05 said:

That comment really stuck out to me. I don't know how many people could really say that about their job.

When you talked about your current job you went right into what you like about it and didn't really mention any negatives. When you started talking about the new job the first things you listed were the negatives.

I get it if the pay raise represents a significant boost to your lifestyle, but if it's not enough to make for any real change, I doubt you'll be factoring that into your "Did I make the right choice" decision later on.

You mentioned neither job is in your long-term future. Do the new and additional duties of the new job make you more marketable for your future career? SuperCollector makes a good point about the money, which would make the decision come down to additional job responsibilities and how much those are worth vs. a job you already enjoy. And if neither company is permanent, how much can those new duties really be worth?

The other option, though not always wise to do, is if you really start to lean toward the new position, present the option to your current boss and use it as leverage to get another benefit. Maybe it's a slight raise, or maybe you can ask them for more tuition help to cover (in some part) classes which would benefit you in your next career.


Part of my struggle over this is because it is easy to come up with good things with something that is known and bad things about the unknown but I also don't want to miss out on an opportunity. The new job is similar in nature to my current job but with more a more specific focus. I can potentially work on some of the same stuff in my current position but it won't be as narrowly focused. It is also working in a different field which would in theory make me more marketable. Don't get me wrong, there are definitely frustrations to my current job. Plus there is always the pressure that I put on myself to make more. Money isn't really an issue where with us but extra cushion would always be nice especially if kids are ever in our future. There is also a possibility for a raise and my current job because of this offer but it isn't guaranteed. What I also don't want to do either is to stick with something just because it is comfortable or to become complacent. My current job definitely has it's frustrations as I am sure all jobs do. When I told my supervisors at my current work about this offer they weren't surprised because they always knew I would move on at some point with my background and training. My dream has always been to go into business of my own and I don't think either position gets me there any sooner. While the extra money could be used to put toward that goal, I worry that any added stress could keep me from focusing on my dream.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: November 12, 2017, 5:49 AM Post
Posts: 716
reillymcshane said:

The last thing I will say is if the new job truly is better for you - don't be afraid. I know this contradicts much of what I just said. But too many times in life we find reasons NOT to do something. There are so many adventures ahead - we just have to embrace them. But don't take the gig just for a few more dollars - unless that really means a ton to you.

My 2 cents.


My biggest issue has always been recognizing if something is truly better for me. There is a chance I could really like this new job and I know there will always be anxiety about career moves. My biggest issue is always thinking things I have to be perfect in every move I make in my career which I know is unrealistic but difficult to put into practice.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: November 12, 2017, 6:13 AM Post
Posts: 1022
I know this will vary largely by industry, but what’s the long-term outlook for both employers? Is one employer at a greater risk of being purchased by a larger competitor? I tend to value stability, all else equal.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: November 12, 2017, 7:05 AM Post
Posts: 716
nodakfan17 said:
I know this will vary largely by industry, but what’s the long-term outlook for both employers? Is one employer at a greater risk of being purchased by a larger competitor? I tend to value stability, all else equal.


As far as stability goes my current employer had more stability but I think both positions are relatively safe if that makes any sense.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: November 12, 2017, 7:19 AM Post
Posts: 450
The grass isn't always greener... especially if you like the people you work with. Does it seem to you that the culture and the hours required to work are similar to what you have now? Obviously a pay raise is nice, but if you have to work more and will be more stressed and you can't have time to spend the extra money you are bringing in, what's the point?

As someone that interviews engineers for a small engineering firm, I always question people that have bounced from job to job. Maybe I'm just old school and value loyalty and longevity. Unless it absolutely feels like the right decision to you, it sounds like you have a lot of negatives about the new job.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: November 12, 2017, 7:29 AM Post
Posts: 716
zurch1818 said:
The grass isn't always greener... especially if you like the people you work with. Does it seem to you that the culture and the hours required to work are similar to what you have now? Obviously a pay raise is nice, but if you have to work more and will be more stressed and you can't have time to spend the extra money you are bringing in, what's the point?

As someone that interviews engineers for a small engineering firm, I always question people that have bounced from job to job. Maybe I'm just old school and value loyalty and longevity. Unless it absolutely feels like the right decision to you, it sounds like you have a lot of negatives about the new job.


The hours are the same roughly but the culture will be different. From your experience hiring, do you think I would get a negative reputation if I turned down the job? Is that even a thing in the hiring world?


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: November 12, 2017, 8:27 AM Post
Posts: 450
I would say that turning down the job would definitely not give you a negative reputation. In my opinion it actually could strengthens you as a future candidate. We really value people that are dedicated, loyal, and will do whatever it takes to get the job done. It is what we try to gauge when we interview...which is definitely not easy to do.

If I get a resume that I can see you have worked 3 different jobs in the last 5-10 years, I probably wouldn't even give a first interview. My first impression is that this is someone not worth hiring. By time they would get trained and understand how we operate, they would already be looking for another job and then we would have to go through the whole process again. Training employees is very expensive and negatively affects productivity.

Here is something that happened to us 2 years ago. We hired a great engineer that was with us for 2.5 years. He got frustrated with the type of projects we were doing and he ended up taking a different job for more money and also did projects that interested him more. After 6 months, he got burned out because it was not what he signed up for. He was working occasional 70 hour weeks and he ended up doing more babysitting than engineering. He sent me a text asking to see if I could pull some strings with the owners to get his old job back. We already filled his old role and the owners weren't very keen on bringing him back, so we had to turn him down. I believe shortly after he sent that text to me, that firm got bought out and the situation got worse. The last I heard from him, he quit that job and now works for the firm he was at before we hired him.

This story is why I said the grass isn't always greener. However, sometimes it can be. I would highly recommend to you to make a list of all of the positives and negatives and make the decision for yourself. If you don't see yourself at either place long-term, it might be best to stay at what you are doing now and wait for a better offer. Maybe your next job will actually be your dream of being your own boss.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: November 28, 2017, 7:00 AM Post
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Posts: 5357
Location: Phoenix, AZ
zurch1818 said:

As someone that interviews engineers for a small engineering firm, I always question people that have bounced from job to job. Maybe I'm just old school and value loyalty and longevity. Unless it absolutely feels like the right decision to you, it sounds like you have a lot of negatives about the new job.


Loyalty is for fools especially in the corporate world. It is very common for people to jump from job to job in the corporate world especially for people under the senior level management.

For the banking industry if you want to get paid but don't want to climb the corporate ladder jumping from one bank to the next is actually a very good move financially. For example the current company I work for if I want a real raise I will need to leave and then come back otherwise just moving up is a "lateral move" according to HR. So no pay increase and if you do get a pay increase it is less than what they would pay someone outside of the bank.

So where does loyalty get you in corporate America? The answer is absolutely no where.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: November 28, 2017, 11:18 AM Post
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Posts: 3015
I have a lot of job-bouncing on my resume, too. At one interview the guy looked at it and said "You sure have a lot of jobs here, but I can see they're all working toward something and you're advancing." I think that's appropriate if you've got a lot of jobs and the direction I'd take with explaining. You've bounced around because you're working toward something, every new job was some kind of advancement toward that goal, and it just so happens that this job I'm interviewing for is my end-goal. So you'd still be able to talk about sticking around even though your history doesn't show it.

But I totally agree with nate82, loyalty isn't a factor anymore. Companies no longer see layoffs as a last resort and won't hesitate letting someone go, so employees coming and going is only fair. Like telling your wife you really enjoy going clothes-shopping with her, "I could see myself retiring here" is just one of those things you're expected to say but everyone involved knows it's a lie.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: November 29, 2017, 5:02 AM Post
Posts: 1022
Loyalty still matters. When a company invests resources in your training and exercises patience as you work your way up the curve - they’re hoping you don’t leave too soon. A pattern of job-hopping, while not disqualify, is still a red flag. Choose your moves carefully.

While loyalty still matters (the extent of which is debatable) we’re all the CEO of our own careers. Our high earning years are limited. Eventually, better opportunities arise and no one will think any less of you for capitalizing on them.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: November 29, 2017, 9:19 AM Post
Posts: 554
Location: Milwaukee
nate82 said:
zurch1818 said:

As someone that interviews engineers for a small engineering firm, I always question people that have bounced from job to job. Maybe I'm just old school and value loyalty and longevity. Unless it absolutely feels like the right decision to you, it sounds like you have a lot of negatives about the new job.


Loyalty is for fools especially in the corporate world. It is very common for people to jump from job to job in the corporate world especially for people under the senior level management.

For the banking industry if you want to get paid but don't want to climb the corporate ladder jumping from one bank to the next is actually a very good move financially. For example the current company I work for if I want a real raise I will need to leave and then come back otherwise just moving up is a "lateral move" according to HR. So no pay increase and if you do get a pay increase it is less than what they would pay someone outside of the bank.

So where does loyalty get you in corporate America? The answer is absolutely no where.

Working for an employer that values its employees and their development will change your opinion. Or maybe find an employer that provides an opportunity for vertical growth and doesn't require an external jump. And until you get to a certain level, comp increase for an internal promotion (vertical or otherwise) will typically be less than that seen by an external candidate.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: November 29, 2017, 10:23 AM Post
Posts: 554
Location: Milwaukee
zurch1818 said:
I would say that turning down the job would definitely not give you a negative reputation. In my opinion it actually could strengthens you as a future candidate. We really value people that are dedicated, loyal, and will do whatever it takes to get the job done. It is what we try to gauge when we interview...which is definitely not easy to do.

If I get a resume that I can see you have worked 3 different jobs in the last 5-10 years, I probably wouldn't even give a first interview. My first impression is that this is someone not worth hiring. By time they would get trained and understand how we operate, they would already be looking for another job and then we would have to go through the whole process again. Training employees is very expensive and negatively affects productivity.

Here is something that happened to us 2 years ago. We hired a great engineer that was with us for 2.5 years. He got frustrated with the type of projects we were doing and he ended up taking a different job for more money and also did projects that interested him more. After 6 months, he got burned out because it was not what he signed up for. He was working occasional 70 hour weeks and he ended up doing more babysitting than engineering. He sent me a text asking to see if I could pull some strings with the owners to get his old job back. We already filled his old role and the owners weren't very keen on bringing him back, so we had to turn him down. I believe shortly after he sent that text to me, that firm got bought out and the situation got worse. The last I heard from him, he quit that job and now works for the firm he was at before we hired him.

This story is why I said the grass isn't always greener. However, sometimes it can be. I would highly recommend to you to make a list of all of the positives and negatives and make the decision for yourself. If you don't see yourself at either place long-term, it might be best to stay at what you are doing now and wait for a better offer. Maybe your next job will actually be your dream of being your own boss.

*Assuming* the reasons for job changes will cause you to lose great candidates - if they look good on paper then always speak with them. Every decision maker can carve out 20-30min to learn about that person and their experience, including reasons for job changes (or have HR or a recruiter feel them out first). Spending 2-3yrs at a company has already started to become common place for a variety of reasons, including people chasing the dollar.

And if it's taking 2-3yrs to get trained and understand how your company works then your company has issues...


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: December 03, 2017, 8:50 PM Post
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Posts: 5050
nodakfan17 said:
Loyalty still matters. When a company invests resources in your training and exercises patience as you work your way up the curve - they’re hoping you don’t leave too soon. A pattern of job-hopping, while not disqualify, is still a red flag. Choose your moves carefully.

While loyalty still matters (the extent of which is debatable) we’re all the CEO of our own careers. Our high earning years are limited. Eventually, better opportunities arise and no one will think any less of you for capitalizing on them.


You're assuming the company is compensating and allowing people to work their way up.

The new way of doing things in big companies is to care less for training, make people do that in their own time, then not give them compensation in accordance with their new skillsets.

Loyalty flows two ways, it's something I've learned in tech over the last 10 years, and in general, companies over 50 or so people, don't have loyalty, only profit margins.

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

Twitter: @MKEHiker
Website: http://www.mkehiker.com


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: December 04, 2017, 5:21 PM Post
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Posts: 1048
Location: Waukesha, WI
I have two friends who work in HR who told you take a job with a company, you owe them two years and that's it.

We just had a guy in his early 60's who was here three years, who had the no loyalty philosophy, got jerked around a bit but stuck it out, then was let go when we re-located and re-engineered the workforce.

It doesn't take two years to train an experienced employee. The honeymoon lasts a couple of months, most.

Unfortunately, it took many years into my career to realize employers only pay you enough to keep you from leaving, while the gap between what you earn and your market worth widens.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: December 04, 2017, 5:47 PM Post
Posts: 1022
Yes, every company seeks profit and operates on thin margins. While you can (and should) occasionally seek a better salary elsewhere, I think aligning yourself with the right manager can be equally effective. There are still good men and women out there who go to bat for their direct reports and care about their development.


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Online  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: December 22, 2017, 4:01 PM Post
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Posts: 8273
I've got a contact on LinkedIn who's always sharing posts by HR and Recruiter people talking about do's and dont's of finding a job and interviews. Basically the original poster will say "doing this will increase your chances of getting the job" and then half of the comments will be people saying "that's a great idea, that would really make a candidate stand out to me" and the other half saying "I would never hire a candidate who did that". It's such a crap game where you never know the rules and those rules change with every person you deal with.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: December 22, 2017, 11:23 PM Post
Posts: 1852
Finding the right fit is most of the battle from what i've experienced. It took three jobs in about 5 years for me, but i'm settled in now with a small lawn company that cares for lakefront & millionaire type homes with a great employer and a wage significantly above what the going rate is for a lawn care worker.

Work hard, care, and show interest in the success of your employer's company and you will be rewarded. If they don't give a **** about you move on, there's a better owner out there somewhere that would die to have you.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: December 23, 2017, 8:17 AM Post
Posts: 450
superfly said:
Finding the right fit is most of the battle from what i've experienced.

Work hard, care, and show interest in the success of your employer's company and you will be rewarded. If they don't give a **** about you move on, there's a better owner out there somewhere that would die to have you.


I agree with this 100%. If you are at a place you enjoy the people, the environment and you feel like you are treated fairly...don't use money as the only reason look for another job.

Without getting political, my opinion is the only exception is if you aren't being paid enough to live a lifestyle where you can be happy. Being able to save for retirement and still being able to afford to do most things I want to do are part of my definition of happy. Yours may be different. I feel that's why they are different opinions on this topic of looking for a new job.


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Offline  Re: job-seeker contacts/advice
Posted: July 01, 2019, 8:40 AM Post
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Posts: 3015
Job just opened up, with housing, right on the barrier islands along the coast. Very busy but generally not much nonsense happens there. I thought it'd be a little cooler due to the coastal breeze, but a co-worker was just there and said it was hot as blazes. People always say you get used to the heat, but my Wisconsin blood still can't deal with it well. The job rarely comes open, but I don't think I'll apply. Who'd want a job protecting thousands of girls in bikinis, anyway?/s

Thinking a lot about the possibility of working toward a superintendent job roughly five years down the road. I don't particularly want the bigger leadership/responsibility/go-to-guy role. But I won't be retiring with a full pension and the extra $1000/mo I can make at the position would be a tremendous benefit.


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