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NCAA one and done rule

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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#21

Posted: March 25, 2017, 7:58 PM Post
Posts: 3734
It's a slippery slope. You need to make sure boosters aren't handing players $100 bills for a $10 autograph and telling them keep the change. I think maybe what i could get on board with is the NCAA taking their percentage of earnings, pooling it all together, then handing it out equally amongst every scholarship athlete. But again, these players are already getting a benefit. Some just don't see it as a benefit because they don't care about school.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#22

Posted: March 25, 2017, 11:22 PM Post
Posts: 7122
paul253 said:
I absolutely positively disagree that college athletes, even basketball and football players, should be paid. For one, they already receive full scholarships which include tuition, room and board, books, and food. For a 4 year student, which most athletes are, you're talking probably close to or even over $100,000. If they choose not to value their education that's their problem. As someone who will be paying $800 a month for ten years to lay off my wife's students loans it just irritates the crap out of me when people act as though these scholarships aren't anything.

Additionally, even though these schools are making oodles of money off of the basketball and football programs, it's not like the athletes aren't benefitting either. Try making it to the NFL without an NCAA team giving you the opportunity to play. Good luck. The schools provide them with the exposure they need to showcase and improve their skills enough to make it to the NFL, where in turn they will make more money in one lousy year of playing a game then you or I will make in our entire lifetime. For those who don't make it to the pros, again, they receive tens of thousands of dollars in scholarship money to get heir degree. If they choose not to take advantage of that that's their problem And many of them are admitted into schools that they'd never in a million years have been able to go to if they weren't good at a sport.

I like Nigel Hayes as a player but I can't stand his little act. If he is such a "poor student athlete" who can't even afford his lunch.....if the NCAA is taking advantage of him and not giving him what he "deserves".....if being a college athlete is such a difficult and unfair thing.....then quit. Go do what 99.9% of us do and pay for school yourself. Do what I did and work a third shift job and go class afterwards and then tell us all how hard being an athlete is. Go pay student loans for the next ten or fifteen years of your life like the rest of us do. Im sorry but I don't think these players realize how much of a break they've gotten for being good at a sport. And don't get me wrong, I get how difficult the travel and the practice can be. But they signed up for it. They knew what to expect going into this thing. If it's too hard or too unfair then walk away.



This is an easy perspective for most of us, but it's also misguided. Growing up in a middle class family, I would have agreed with Paul253, but I've moved beyond that. Many college football and basketball players (along with other sports) are from situations of poverty. I've heard countless stories of college athletes that can't afford to go on a date, because they have no money. I've heard stories of athletes that HAVE to go pro because they can't afford their free college career (how weird to say). NCAA rules severely restrict job opportunities for athletes, or else Ohio St boosters would be paying football players $100k for answering phones during their summers. So the NCAA basically tells people they have to uphold the purity of amateur status while working crazy hours. I favor a tiered system where college football and basketball players would receive roughly $2-5k per year, lesser sports perhaps $1-2k per year. Maybe conferences would get together to set uniform amounts for their schools. In theory, I'd love to see college athletes working without pay, instead grateful for all they are receiving. It was pretty funny in South Park when Cartman went to a university to ask questions about their slave labor.


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Online  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#23

Posted: March 26, 2017, 2:24 AM Post
Posts: 1581
This would be an easy problem to fix. Just deny the school the replacement scholarship until the player's class graduates. One year--you lose a scholarship for 3 years. If the player doesn't go to class semester 2--lose the scholarship for 3 1/2 years (assuming one semester's successful study).


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#24

Posted: March 26, 2017, 4:34 AM Post
Posts: 378
WV Brew said:
This would be an easy problem to fix. Just deny the school the replacement scholarship until the player's class graduates. One year--you lose a scholarship for 3 years. If the player doesn't go to class semester 2--lose the scholarship for 3 1/2 years (assuming one semester's successful study).

That's a very interesting solution to curb the number of one-and-done basketball players and I'd entertain it.

You'd essentially be forcing Kentucky or Duke to go without a scholarship for 3 years if they recruit a NBA lottery pick. Does that mean that the blue chip programs recruit fewer one-and-done players? Maybe that helps bring lottery picks to other schools and boost parity? However, I could see someone making the argument that temporarily eliminating a scholarship only limits opportunities for other would-be student athletes - and the NCAA is all about the student athletes (sarcasm).


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#25

Posted: March 26, 2017, 4:52 AM Post
Posts: 378
jerichoholicninja said:
If they would just allow the players to make money off of their own name by doing autograph signings and endorsements the majority of the problem would go away. Any other kid on any other scholarship at any school can get paid to do the thing that got them the scholarship. A kid on a music scholarship can go and play a concert or record an album and get paid for it. But a football player can't sell some signed 8x10's for $10 a pop.

In theory, I love this idea. It might even help reduce the number of one-and-done basketball players, as I could see the shoe companies signing future lottery picks to "holding deals." As a matter of principle, I think anyone should be able to profit from their own likeness (with few exceptions ... OJ's If I Did It comes to mind). However, what's stopping a wealthy alum / business owner from hiring an entire football team to appear in a commercial and paying each player a large "talent fee?" Suppose players start choosing this school because they want to appear in the "annual commercial" - now you're basically just paying players.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#26

Posted: March 26, 2017, 5:38 AM Post
Posts: 3734
I favor a tiered system where college football and basketball players would receive roughly $2-5k


I'm pretty sure college athletes now, in addition to free tuition free food plans free housing and free books now get stipends as well, at least in the major conferences. Unfortunately as pretty much everything is with the NCAA it's not a uniform stipend so some schools are paying more than others, which of course is becoming just another recruiting tactic.

Many college football and basketball players (along with other sports) are from situations of poverty. I've heard countless stories of college athletes that can't afford to go on a date, because they have no money


True. But without a scholarship not only could they still not afford to go on a date because they have no money but they'd also not be able to afford to go to school. The best thing someone can do to get themselves out of poverty is to get a college degree and start a career. The college degree is the "teach a man to fish" in that "give a man a fish he eats for a day...." saying. Unfortunately many athletes don't understand this and many universities don't care about that either because for the player it's all about making it to the pros and for the school it's all about the winning.

This would be an easy problem to fix. Just deny the school the replacement scholarship until the player's class graduates. One year--you lose a scholarship for 3 years. If the player doesn't go to class semester 2--lose the scholarship for 3 1/2 years (assuming one semester's successful study


It's an interesting idea but I'm not sure it would curb the problem. I think schools would still recruit one and dones but the players would be more spread out amongst the schools. Kentucky couldn't recruit 6 of them every year but a school like Marquette, who rarely gets any, could afford to take one or two a year.

I think the only real solution to this is the NBA changing their policy. Either let HS players enter the draft or make them stay 3 years like the NFL (or both like baseball).

On a side note this is becoming more and more a problem in college hockey as well. The best college players often stay two seasons at most.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#27

Posted: March 26, 2017, 6:16 AM Post
Posts: 378
paul253 said:
On a side note this is becoming more and more a problem in college hockey as well. The best college players often stay two seasons at most.

There are a lot of early departures in college hockey, but that's been the case for a while. It takes a deep roster to win a NCAA hockey title. Since a recruiting class in college hockey is typically 6-7 players, the loss of 1-2 players to the NHL is less impactful relative to college basketball. Good college hockey coaches craft their rosters to minimize the impact of early departures on any one class and NHL clubs will even steer their draft picks to specific NCAA programs because of their track record for developing prospects. Brock Boeser just played for North Dakota on Friday night (UND was eliminated by BU in 2OT) and the Vancouver Canucks on Saturday.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#28

Posted: March 26, 2017, 7:00 AM Post
Posts: 378
paul253 said:
I favor a tiered system where college football and basketball players would receive roughly $2-5k


I'm pretty sure college athletes now, in addition to free tuition free food plans free housing and free books now get stipends as well, at least in the major conferences. Unfortunately as pretty much everything is with the NCAA it's not a uniform stipend so some schools are paying more than others, which of course is becoming just another recruiting tactic.

I'm pretty sure every FBS school offers FCOA stipends, because FCS North Dakota offers them for hockey, football, and basketball (plus to an equal number of female athletes). It is a significant expense for a university whose only revenue sport is men's hockey. Football and men's basketball at UND are close to being revenue neutral (but still incur losses each year, like the vast majority of NCAA programs). Baseball and men's golf were cut at UND shortly after the introduction of FCOA, presumably to help offset the cost of the stipends.

Apparently, the FCOA stipends average $3000 - $6000 per year, depending on the university. I found a CBS article from 2015 that listed the top 10 stipends:

$6,082 Cincinnati
$6,060 Florida Atlantic
$6,018 Florida State
$5,491 UCLA
$5,666 Tennessee
$5,610 Stanford
$5,586 Auburn
$5,470 South Alabama
$5,386 Alabama
$5,364 Louisville

Interesting that the cost of living is apparently about the same in Tuscaloosa as it is Los Angeles or Palo Alto. [laughing]


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#29

Posted: March 26, 2017, 7:43 AM Post
Posts: 378
paul253 said:
I absolutely positively disagree that college athletes, even basketball and football players, should be paid. For one, they already receive full scholarships which include tuition, room and board, books, and food. For a 4 year student, which most athletes are, you're talking probably close to or even over $100,000. If they choose not to value their education that's their problem.

Paul, I'm 99% with you on this.

The tuition, books, housing, food, health care, travel, AND stipend all seem like a pretty good deal. Athletes also have access to networking opportunities that you or I would have envied at that age. Plus, I'm betting they don't have to try to hard to get the ladies' attention.

That being said, there's still a small part of me that has to acknowledge the disparity between the pay of coaches and administrators at the top programs and the value of a full scholarship - especially in college football, where there are effectively no other routes to the NFL.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#30

Posted: March 26, 2017, 9:19 AM Post
Posts: 3734
The tuition, books, housing, food, health care, travel, AND stipend all seem like a pretty good deal. Athletes also have access to networking opportunities that you or I would have envied at that age. Plus, I'm betting they don't have to try to hard to get the ladies' attention


And let's be honest. They get academic breaks too. Look at all the students in all the sports at all these schools. How many of them are ever suspended for academic reasons? Some, but not many at all, and certainly not the really good ones. I'd also argue they get breaks in the criminal justice system too. Just last year I believe that OT from Bama got arrested for drug possession and possession of a stolen firearm. His case got no processed and he was suspended for like the first two plays in their game against Northwest Charleston Southern Tech university or whatever patsy they played that day. And don't even get me started about Baylor players got away with.

These players are basically celebrities on campus.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#31

Posted: March 26, 2017, 10:14 AM Post
Posts: 5111
Location: Kenosha, WI
WV Brew said:
This would be an easy problem to fix. Just deny the school the replacement scholarship until the player's class graduates. One year--you lose a scholarship for 3 years. If the player doesn't go to class semester 2--lose the scholarship for 3 1/2 years (assuming one semester's successful study).


That is a horrible idea as you would be fixing nothing. How many assured "one and dones" are there at the start of a season? Not all that many. What if I recruit a couple good prospects that have great freshman seasons and leave? Seriously I am going to lose multiple scholarships and ruin my recruiting for years? That just is not a good idea. It wouldn't even minimize "one and done" players, it would just spread them out.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#32

Posted: March 26, 2017, 11:51 AM Post
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Posts: 511
paul253 said:
It's a slippery slope. You need to make sure boosters aren't handing players $100 bills for a $10 autograph and telling them keep the change. I think maybe what i could get on board with is the NCAA taking their percentage of earnings, pooling it all together, then handing it out equally amongst every scholarship athlete. But again, these players are already getting a benefit. Some just don't see it as a benefit because they don't care about school.

To keep the slope from becoming too slippery, you could always cap their earnings from signing sessions and cap the number of sessions they can do. Like 1000 a session and no more than 1 a week or something. You would still have some boosters or whatever try to break the rules, but thats not much different than now and at least those who follow the rules would be able to get something. Full pay for them would be very difficult to figure out, but I think they should be able to make something off of themselves. Scholarships are a LOT, but its not the end all be all.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#33

Posted: March 26, 2017, 12:52 PM Post
Posts: 1058
As someone who is paying about $1200/month ("normal" private school, not Harvard or anything, with no free rides from the parents) in the family for our two educations I am fairly offended when I hear people discount the value of those scholarships. That doesn't even cover the "perks" that come with fame...the grades, the women, the popularity, etc. Believe me these kids need no sympathy here, they live the life.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#34

Posted: March 26, 2017, 1:28 PM Post
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Posts: 4250
paul253 said:
I like Nigel Hayes as a player but I can't stand his little act. If he is such a "poor student athlete" who can't even afford his lunch.....if the NCAA is taking advantage of him and not giving him what he "deserves".....if being a college athlete is such a difficult and unfair thing.....then quit. Go do what 99.9% of us do and pay for school yourself. Do what I did and work a third shift job and go class afterwards and then tell us all how hard being an athlete is. Go pay student loans for the next ten or fifteen years of your life like the rest of us do. Im sorry but I don't think these players realize how much of a break they've gotten for being good at a sport. And don't get me wrong, I get how difficult the travel and the practice can be. But they signed up for it. They knew what to expect going into this thing. If it's too hard or too unfair then walk away.


1 game at the Kohl Center easily pays for Hayes' entire 4 year scholarship.
The kid is a poor college athlete, he literally couldn't afford to go home and visit his family during his freshman year.
I'm sure you didn't look beyond the viral sign that got posted all over social media. What did he do with that? He created an account and raised over $10,000 for the local Madison Boys & Girls club.

https://www.landof10.com/wisconsin/one-family-will-never-able-repay-wisconsin-badgers-star-nigel-hayes-holiday-kindness

The idea that he doesn't value the education he's getting is laughable, Nigel Hayes is an incredibly intelligent young man, and has used his status, which he realizes he may never have again, to speak out against the unfair treatment of college athletes and African Americans.

How many sold out lectures did you give while you were in school? How many Paul253 t-shirts were sold?

College athletes are DOING A JOB that is generating hundreds of millions of dollars for Universities, and they don't see a dime of it.

The fact that a large corporation has repeatedly blocked attempts by the workers to be paid and unionize.... go figure.

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

Twitter: @MKEHiker
Website: http://www.mkehiker.com


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#35

Posted: March 26, 2017, 1:33 PM Post
Posts: 5111
Location: Kenosha, WI
superfly said:
As someone who is paying about $1200/month ("normal" private school, not Harvard or anything, with no free rides from the parents) in the family for our two educations I am fairly offended when I hear people discount the value of those scholarships. That doesn't even cover the "perks" that come with fame...the grades, the women, the popularity, etc. Believe me these kids need no sympathy here, they live the life.


I must have missed the part where you were apart of a million dollar revenue sports team. Comparing yourself to them is silly. The problem is the fact to "one and done" players the scholarship is worthless and for players at big time programs the value of that scholarship seems pretty miniscule. They want a cut of enormous profits and can you blame them?

That isn't to say I think they should be paid.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#36

Posted: March 26, 2017, 3:25 PM Post
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Serious suggestion, just ditch the whole going to school part of it. Pay for housing and don't even bother trying to pretend these kids are getting an actual education. All the schools, conferences, and NCAA really want is a good product on the field to make money off of. Take the academic scholarship from the athletes and give it to kids who actually want an education. Taking away the time spent on academics would allow the kids to have a part time job, or train harder for their sport. Everybody wins.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#37

Posted: March 26, 2017, 4:03 PM Post
Posts: 5111
Location: Kenosha, WI
jerichoholicninja said:
Serious suggestion, just ditch the whole going to school part of it. Pay for housing and don't even bother trying to pretend these kids are getting an actual education. All the schools, conferences, and NCAA really want is a good product on the field to make money off of. Take the academic scholarship from the athletes and give it to kids who actually want an education. Taking away the time spent on academics would allow the kids to have a part time job, or train harder for their sport. Everybody wins.


I always think of that. Except everyone keeps forgetting that 99.9% of college athletes aren't going pro. So 99.9% of athletes love that scholarship. That scholarship is worth a lot more than trying to find a part time job. What this thread is complaining about is a such a small sliver of the big picture(athletes who don't care for the education).

It isn't that athletes don't want or need the scholarship it is the fact that some of them are big parts of million dollar teams and the university is practically sacrificing nothing to have them there. Giving them an academic scholarship costs the university nothing and the university is making millions.

I try to think of ways to pay them in a fair/realistic way, but every idea is problematic. There is just too much variance among NCAA sports/schools it would be so hard to do. What Kentucky can do is way more than some low end D1 school can do. If you go by what the small D1 school can do what is even the point?


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#38

Posted: March 26, 2017, 5:17 PM Post
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Posts: 4250
MrTPlush said:
I try to think of ways to pay them in a fair/realistic way, but every idea is problematic. There is just too much variance among NCAA sports/schools it would be so hard to do. What Kentucky can do is way more than some low end D1 school can do. If you go by what the small D1 school can do what is even the point?


Because allowing a poor kid enough money for a plane ticket to visit his family on thanksgiving is something. A huge something to that kid & his family.

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

Twitter: @MKEHiker
Website: http://www.mkehiker.com


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Online  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#39

Posted: March 26, 2017, 6:33 PM Post
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Posts: 3804
nodakfan17 said:
WV Brew said:
This would be an easy problem to fix. Just deny the school the replacement scholarship until the player's class graduates. One year--you lose a scholarship for 3 years. If the player doesn't go to class semester 2--lose the scholarship for 3 1/2 years (assuming one semester's successful study).

That's a very interesting solution to curb the number of one-and-done basketball players and I'd entertain it.

You'd essentially be forcing Kentucky or Duke to go without a scholarship for 3 years if they recruit a NBA lottery pick. Does that mean that the blue chip programs recruit fewer one-and-done players? Maybe that helps bring lottery picks to other schools and boost parity? However, I could see someone making the argument that temporarily eliminating a scholarship only limits opportunities for other would-be student athletes - and the NCAA is all about the student athletes (sarcasm).

What is so bad about a player leaving college early that it should bring punishment?

People attend college so as to advance their financial future. If say some math wiz on scholarship is recruited by multiple businesses and he leaves before graduating to take one of those jobs, would anyone fault that kid for doing so or think the university should face a scholarship reduction?

For some bizarre reason though if a college athlete leaves early because the NFL/NBA/NHL will be offering him millions of dollars, it's bad of the kid to do this and/or the school should face a scholarship restriction.

It's the universities and their conferences along with the NCAA who have turned college football and basketball into multi-billion dollar enterprises, not the athletes. If a small percentage of those kids happen to show to be talented enough to where a pro sport will pay them big money to leave college after only one or two years, good for those kids. Why do some have such a problem with that? Do you want to force those kids to stay in college longer and earn pennies on the dollar compared to their true worth just so the universities can make all of the money instead?


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Online  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#40

Posted: March 26, 2017, 7:02 PM Post
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Posts: 3804
paul253 said:
It's a slippery slope. You need to make sure boosters aren't handing players $100 bills for a $10 autograph and telling them keep the change. I think maybe what i could get on board with is the NCAA taking their percentage of earnings, pooling it all together, then handing it out equally amongst every scholarship athlete. But again, these players are already getting a benefit. Some just don't see it as a benefit because they don't care about school.

Those same boosters can gives hundreds of thousands to millions to help pay coaches like Saban, Harbaugh, Calipari, etc more than many NBA or NFL coaches, but god forbid they slip some of the athletes a few hundred for autographs instead of 50 bucks.

As for some of these kids not taking school seriously, no question that is the case. This is a prime example though of why major college basketball and football supposedly being amateur athletics is such nonsense.

So many of these universities twist themselves in knots lowering academic standards to justify letting in high talent kids who aren't anywhere near prepared to handle a college curriculum and then stuff those kids in a number of sham classes simply to keep them eligible to play. They don't give a crap about anything except making sure their prized athletes perform well on the court/field to help keep stadiums and arenas full of paying customers. Those schools are flat out using those kids.

Granted, not all universities are this way. Some actually have tougher academic standards and aren't willing to let kids be put it sham classes to keep them eligible. To many aren't though. They treat their players as employees, except they don't have to pay them.


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