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NCAA one and done rule

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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#41

Posted: March 26, 2017, 8:16 PM Post
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I've posted this somewhere before, but a possible middle ground that still "teaches someone how to fish" is to give them a small expense account at the beginning of the year - say, $500 - and then have certain eligible expenses that they can submit with receipts for reimbursement to refill that account. Just like in the business world, when I go on trips I have to submit receipts to get reimbursed for my eligible expenses, teach students that skill and learn to be accountable for your expenses. If you have an eligible expense you use the money in the expense account to pay for it and then submit the receipt to refill the account. Money out, submit receipt, money back in.

Groceries - check ($40/week limit, they already have a meal plan that covers most of their meals). One plane ticket per year to see your family - check. One laptop at the beginning of your freshman year - check. Tattoos - nope. Alcohol - nope. Concert tickets - nope. You have the $500 as essentially fun money for the year. Receipt submissions are randomly audited (just like in the business world) and violations of policy have consequences.

As far as date money... please. As others have said, they have no problems courting women.

I do think that coaches salaries should be capped to somewhat level the playing field. Yes, they can go to the pros and make more money... but there's only 30 of those jobs available, with only about 5-7 opening up each year (and they are competing against pro assistants for those), so there isn't going to be some mass exodus of talented college coaches leaving for the pros.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#42

Posted: March 26, 2017, 10:49 PM Post
Posts: 3780
The idea that he doesn't value the education he's getting is laughable, Nigel Hayes is an incredibly intelligent young man, and has used his status, which he realizes he may never have again, to speak out against the unfair treatment of college athletes and African Americans.

How many sold out lectures did you give while you were in school? How many Paul253 t-shirts were sold?

College athletes are DOING A JOB that is generating hundreds of millions of dollars for Universities, and they don't see a dime of it.

The fact that a large corporation has repeatedly blocked attempts by the workers to be paid and unionize.... go figure.


But it' not a JOB. It's a game. And it's a school. And yes they do see a dime. For out of state students who stay all four years they see about two million dimes when it's all said and done.

And I'm not saying anything about Hayes personally, just what he represents. Good for him if he raises money for charity. I didn't give any sold out lectures or sell tshirts because I'm not a campus celebrity like him, which he is because he plays basketball. I don't think people care much for what I have to say.

But do you really expect me to feel sorry for him? Because he can't afford to go home (how much is a bus ticket from Madison to Toledo anyway?) Well if it weren't for his scholarship he'd probably never have been able to go to Wisconsin in the first place, considering it costs about $47,000 a year for out of state students. So likely the only reason he is even at Wisconsin is because he's good at basketball. Then there's a fact that not only does he not have pay for anything while there he also gets about $4900 a year just for being an athlete. Like I said if life is so tough for him he can quit, move back home and go from there.

Look I understand the argument for paying athletes. The NCAA brings in ALOT of money. But I am a little tired of these athletes acting like they are some poor, taken advantage of people who can't even afford the clothes they wear and the food they eat. They are given an opportunity that pretty much everyone wants. They go to school for free and they play a game that they love. When they leave school with their degree, which most do, they don't have any student debt. And while on campus they are looked upon as local celebrities and given all sorts of break academically.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#43

Posted: March 26, 2017, 11:56 PM Post
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paul253 said:
The idea that he doesn't value the education he's getting is laughable, Nigel Hayes is an incredibly intelligent young man, and has used his status, which he realizes he may never have again, to speak out against the unfair treatment of college athletes and African Americans.

How many sold out lectures did you give while you were in school? How many Paul253 t-shirts were sold?

College athletes are DOING A JOB that is generating hundreds of millions of dollars for Universities, and they don't see a dime of it.

The fact that a large corporation has repeatedly blocked attempts by the workers to be paid and unionize.... go figure.


But it' not a JOB. It's a game.

Of course it's a job. Colleges are paying these kids to play basketball or football for them and in return instead of paying them money, they are giving a scholarship which is of significantly less financial value than the money the players talents provide the universities and the NCAA.

Teams in both sports cut ties with players all of the time when they aren't as good as the coaches expected or newer recruits make other expendable. Or they pull scholarships at the last minute when a better recruit offers to come. Tom Crean was so famous for this a name for it was given called Creaning, but he is far from alone in this practice. Produce or we'll find someone who will, like employers do.

I'm hard pressed to think of any other multi-billion dollar entertainment business or business in general like big time college football/basketball where the actual labor force generating those billions is so restricted in what they can ask for in return, along with what kind of money they are allowed to earn during their free time.

What a racket the NCAA has devised, yet some want to rip on the players being scammed who speak out instead of universities and the NCAA who are making boatloads of cash simply because they can compensate the athletes pocket change in comparison to money they generate. Nigel Hayes has helped generate a hell of a lot more money for the University of Wisconsin than his four year scholarship cost them. He has every right to think that system is garbage, while at the same time acknowledging that he's very much enjoyed his time at Wisconsin. Both can be accurate.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#44

Posted: March 27, 2017, 7:13 AM Post
Posts: 1317
Location: Madison, WI
The NCAA is not responsible for the NBA implementing the rule. The NCAA isn't responsible for someone else not creating an alternate league that has a better compensation/training package. I agree the two main sports should probably get a little extra walking around money. But I'm somewhat sick of hearing over and over how the NCAA is evil in regards to CBB for the two reasons I just mentioned. NCAA is currently the best deal they have and outside of the top top players who are getting ripped off (because of the NBA rule) the vast majority of kids are getting a pretty sweet deal. If these players could generate so much income without the schools/community affiliations then someone should create a league for them or at least not ban them from the current league.

Football is a different problem due to the physicality but basketball is fixed very easily. Just get rid of the rule.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#45

Posted: March 27, 2017, 7:53 AM Post
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i really with they would change the rule to this:

players can come out after high school, if they do not sign a pro contract, they an return to school and are no longer the property of that team.

if you either enroll in college as a freshman or return back to school after the draft, you are not eligible for the NBA draft after your sophomore year.

this is pretty close to MLB rules, it really eliminates the one and done rule which is ruining college basketball and the NBA to an extent.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#46

Posted: March 27, 2017, 9:13 AM Post
Posts: 5444
One and done guys don't have to go to college. Like Brandon Jennings, they can go overseas. They can go to some community college, or even go to one of the sports academies.

But they choose to go to a big program to showcase their skills, and improve their draft pick selection. So they are using the platform of KY, Kansas, UCLA, Duke, etc. for their own benefit, it is not a one-way street where the NCAA is taking advantage of them.

The guys who do stay and graduate get far more than a scholarship (which is valuable enough.) If they don't make it to the NBA, they still have far more opportunities upon graduation through the boosters, and just name recognition compared to average joe student. Again, both parties benefit.

NBA should either eliminate the 1 yr rule, or extend it to 3 years. I go back and forth which I would prefer. And then increase the stipend, I have no problem with that.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#47

Posted: March 27, 2017, 9:20 AM Post
Posts: 1317
Location: Madison, WI
Have to think if they tried to expand it beyond 1 year that someone would challenge it legally and it would finally get enough traction to make it illegal. My understanding is the only reason it's legal right now is that only old people are currently protected under age discrimination laws. Good chance if it's challenged the same logic would apply to all ages. To me, it's crazy to ban 18 yr olds from working.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#48

Posted: March 27, 2017, 9:26 AM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
To me, it's crazy to ban 18 yr olds from working.

nobody is banning 18 year olds from working. i am an engineer, i wasn't banned form working as an engineer at 18, i was just unqualified and needed to get a degree first.

I do give you that these kids can do the job, so in that sense you do have a point, but if there is a job requirement to play in the NBA (one year of college, or whatever). that is no different that any white color job.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#49

Posted: March 27, 2017, 9:44 AM Post
Posts: 1317
Location: Madison, WI
patrickgpe said:
tmwiese55 said:
To me, it's crazy to ban 18 yr olds from working.

nobody is banning 18 year olds from working. i am an engineer, i wasn't banned form working as an engineer at 18, i was just unqualified and needed to get a degree first.

I do give you that these kids can do the job, so in that sense you do have a point, but if there is a job requirement to play in the NBA (one year of college, or whatever). that is no different that any white color job.


But they're basing it purely on age. Totally different. They don't have to draft them, if they're unqualified (as in your example) then just don't draft them.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#50

Posted: March 27, 2017, 10:21 AM Post
Posts: 3780
What a racket the NCAA has devised, yet some want to rip on the players being scammed


Explain to me how the players are "being scammed". They know exactly what they are getting into and they all go in more than willingly. As I've said time and time again if they don't like it they can walk away any time they want. But ask anyone here, hell ask yourself. If you could go to college, a college you probably couldn't afford to go to or qualify to get into, for four years and earn your degree while paying nothing for tuition, nothing for housing, nothing for your food plans, nothing for healthcare, nothing for books AND receive a monthly stipend of a few hundreds dollars in exchange for playing on the football or basketball team.....would you? I sure as hell would. Stop acting like these players aren't getting anything in return for their time and effort.

Nigel Hayes has helped generate a hell of a lot more money for the University of Wisconsin than his four year scholarship cost them. He has every right to think that system is garbage, while at the same time acknowledging that he's very much enjoyed his time at Wisconsin. Both can be accurate.


Nigel Hayes can quit anytime he wants. He could have left three years ago to go play professionally if life was to tough. He didn't even need to go to college to play professionally in Europe. He wants the best of both worlds. He wants to go to college and enjoy his time and enjoy being a local celebrity and all that AND he wants to be paid substantially for all that, even though he knew that's not how it works.

If these players could generate so much income without the schools/community affiliations then someone should create a league for them or at least not ban them from the current league.


Exactly. These kids need the NCAA just as much as the NCAA needs them. Without the NCAA most wouldn't get anywhere near the exposure they get now, particularly in football.

players can come out after high school, if they do not sign a pro contract, they an return to school and are no longer the property of that team


The problem I see with this is players will have to much control over where they play. Say I go after HS and get drafted by the Bucks but don't want to play for the Bucks then they can simply go back to school and try again next year. I think a player should only be allowed to be drafted once. I know the NFL lets them enter multiple times but I don't like that. I like how NCAA hockey does it where a play can play in college until the team that drafted him signs him to a contract. But he remains property of the team for a certain number of years.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#51

Posted: March 27, 2017, 12:51 PM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
patrickgpe said:
tmwiese55 said:
To me, it's crazy to ban 18 yr olds from working.

nobody is banning 18 year olds from working. i am an engineer, i wasn't banned form working as an engineer at 18, i was just unqualified and needed to get a degree first.

I do give you that these kids can do the job, so in that sense you do have a point, but if there is a job requirement to play in the NBA (one year of college, or whatever). that is no different that any white color job.


But they're basing it purely on age. Totally different. They don't have to draft them, if they're unqualified (as in your example) then just don't draft them.

not really, for example to be a lifeguard you have to be 16, that has never been questioned in court. to bartend you have to be 21, i can go on. its not just sports players that has age restrictions on the job.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#52

Posted: March 27, 2017, 12:55 PM Post
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paul253 said:
Nigel Hayes can quit anytime he wants. He could have left three years ago to go play professionally if life was to tough. He didn't even need to go to college to play professionally in Europe. He wants the best of both worlds. He wants to go to college and enjoy his time and enjoy being a local celebrity and all that AND he wants to be paid substantially for all that, even though he knew that's not how it works.


So your attitude to someone trying to change the status quo in college athletics is, "Don't try to change anything, you signed up for this, plus you get to be famous in Madison."

I can't even begin.

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

Twitter: @MKEHiker
Website: http://www.mkehiker.com


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#53

Posted: March 27, 2017, 1:42 PM Post
Posts: 1317
Location: Madison, WI
But they're basing it purely on age. Totally different. They don't have to draft them, if they're unqualified (as in your example) then just don't draft them.[/quote]
not really, for example to be a lifeguard you have to be 16, that has never been questioned in court. to bartend you have to be 21, i can go on. its not just sports players that has age restrictions on the job.[/quote]

Fine nitpick all you want but there's no reason why bball should be treated unlike any other job based on merit. Bartending is a clear one as there is a different age law involved there relegating that and it's the government choosing. And from a quick googling that the government has specifically made the laws that way for lifeguarding too. When government makes a law specifically say that bball players can't play basketball until after a year out of HS I'll then accept it. Otherwise I'll continue thinking that basketball should be treated like any other job.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#54

Posted: March 27, 2017, 2:24 PM Post
Posts: 5444
Trucking companies can have hiring standards whereby they have a minimum age. Some use 21, others 23, etc. There are other examples. Employers, generally speaking, can dictate minimum age requirements. So, basketball is treated like any other job.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#55

Posted: March 27, 2017, 3:18 PM Post
Posts: 1317
Location: Madison, WI
Yea like I said it's currently considered legal because the law only technically applies to old people as of now. So showing another example doesn't change it. It's just there hasn't been enough incentive to challenge it yet and the SC might not bother on it anyway as they have more important things to worry about. Change it to 3 years like was mentioned here, and you might run into a lawyer that tries to make his name on beating this, and I'm sure the NBA won't want that attention. Especially since they also would probably look at the greater good and know it's not good to have lots of players going overseas at age 18, which is what would happen with a 3 year ban.

But again, there is probably clear reason why when it comes to their companies insurance why they don't do it or they simply don't view the person as having enough experience so they don't hire them. The NBA doesn't have to draft the guys if they don't think they have enough experience and aren't good enough, just like trucking companies don't have to. But to completely ban them based off age just doesn't seem right to me. Disagree if you want but if you can get drafted, can rack up thousands and thousands of student loan debt, work as a child actor at age 8, play pro tennis at any age, coders at any age then I don't see why you can't play basketball and I think it's wrong to block it.

Besides, back to the original point it's not the NCAA banning them. And if the NBA chooses this route then someone else can get a league together of top 20 HS players and have them go head to head over and over (or whatever league they want that doesn't have a ban). Since it's not a law someone else can do it so I don't see why the NCAA is so evil.

And if Lincoln Hawk (Sylvester Stallone from Over the Top, the equivalent of LBJ to truck driving) showed up at age 19 and could whiz the exam and was the only guy who didn't have a DUI they'd probably hire him since he's the best guy.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#56

Posted: March 27, 2017, 3:35 PM Post
Posts: 2218
The sooner power conference teams and other capable D1 programs in the major revenue-generating sports (i.e. football and men's basketball) leave the NCAA and form their own organization for those sports, the better. They could team with the NFL and NBA to make conditions better for the athletes and have them be established as true development leagues - academic scholarships could still be part of their compensation and part of the recruiting draw, but they could also establish reasonable salary and benefit packages for these kids. I think this could also better set up the majority of these kids who are good enough to compete at the highest collegiate level of competition but not good enough to play in the NFL or NBA for life after playing. They could offer training programs to remain involved in the sport (coaching, scouting, marketing, PR, etc) that may not be tied directly to collegiate degrees.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#57

Posted: March 27, 2017, 3:42 PM Post
Posts: 1317
Location: Madison, WI
Very good idea Chorizo, obviously easier said than done but that seems like a very good end game to be shooting for eventually.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#58

Posted: March 27, 2017, 3:52 PM Post
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
There is a new professional football league that may change college football but it will depend on how well this league can attract elite high school football players.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1844 ... ummer-2018


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#59

Posted: March 27, 2017, 3:58 PM Post
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Posts: 3837
patrickgpe said:
i really with they would change the rule to this:

players can come out after high school, if they do not sign a pro contract, they an return to school and are no longer the property of that team.

if you either enroll in college as a freshman or return back to school after the draft, you are not eligible for the NBA draft after your sophomore year.

this is pretty close to MLB rules, it really eliminates the one and done rule which is ruining college basketball and the NBA to an extent .

How is the one and done rule ruining college basketball?

You have maybe 30-40 kids a year leave after one season, the countless other players stay from 2-4 years. Of those one and done high level talents, at least college basketball fans get to see them play for one year vs going directly to the pros. Just think of all of the great college basketball games fans got to see of say Durant, Wall, Oden, Anthony Davis, etc etc which never would have taken place if they could go directly to the pros instead.

College basketball would be a much duller game without the best talents ever stepping foot on a college basketball court, even if many only stay one year.

So i just don't get why so many have a problem with this setup.

As for the NBA, they are better off with the high end talents playing at least a year in college to get seasoning and experiencing living on their own for the first time vs those player going directly to the pros from high school.


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Offline  Re: NCAA one and done rule
#60

Posted: March 27, 2017, 4:02 PM Post
Posts: 3780
So your attitude to someone trying to change the status quo in college athletics is, "Don't try to change anything, you signed up for this, plus you get to be famous in Madison."


No my attitude is you know what you signed up for so stopping acting like you're some poor unsuspecting victim. I mean serioulsly, walking around with these "broke athlete" signs? I'm so sorry that he gets a four year degree without paying a dime AND gets a monthly stipend on top of that just for being an athlete. Please, allow me to throw some money his way.

Perhaps someone should send him a bill showing him what he would have paid for college if he wasn't good at basketball.

And perhaps he should have gone to Turkey or Greece to play professionally three years ago if playing NCAA basketball is causing him to go broke.


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