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Miller Park Hotel

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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#41

Posted: November 14, 2018, 9:58 PM Post
Posts: 1168
I have a friend in the hotel industry. You would be shocked at how low occupancy rates would have to be for a hotel to not make money.


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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#42

Posted: November 14, 2018, 10:06 PM Post
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
rickh150 said:
It's within driving distance to everything in Milwaukee; it has easy access. Conventions, meetings, wedding parties, Etc. would use it. I think of all those out of state fans of the opposition that we see in the stands..... it would be super easy to see two games and stay for a night next to the stadium rather than heading downtown.

If you are against this one, you probably are against the operation of 90% of the hotels out there already. Weekday traffic? Events going on in Milwaukee?

How do they manage?


Nice straw man.


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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#43

Posted: November 15, 2018, 7:22 AM Post
Posts: 9761
True Blue Brew Crew said:
I had no idea we has so many hotel development experts on this site. What a neat thing.


So it is okay to be a non-expert as long as you are for the idea and not against it? It was nice of you to have your non-expert opinion on who you thought was right though. [laughing] Sorry, but that makes no sense.


On another note I don' think the question is if it is profitable or not...the Brewers can make anything profitable if they want it to be. I think the problem lies in the fact it wouldn't be a huge money maker. They would have to pour millions into a project that isn't really moving the bottom line. Would it add to the experience? No, I don't think it really would that much. We are known for tailgating and most out of states fans enjoy taking part in such activity too.

I don't buy into it being useful outside of the baseball season. Where is the next closest hotel outside of the Best Western? No where near Miller Park and for good reason...it is a terrible location. I bet the Best Western is only near Miller Park because of the hospital, likely it's main source of guests.

The only bright side is the fact it would be stupidly cheap when the Brewers aren't there and it would end up really close to the highway. Very well could pull off travelers just wanting to stop for the night. Which is about the only people you will get because once again...it is by nothing. No food, no shopping, and no gas station. Not even basic amenities.

I just think there are better ways to spend money and add to the experience more. I am glad to discover the Best Western from this thread though. I always assumed there wasn't a hotel within waking distance because that is what everyone says. The Best Western is only about .5 mile farther than walking to your car in the general parking lots.


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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#44

Posted: November 15, 2018, 7:26 AM Post
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wallus said:
I have a friend in the hotel industry. You would be shocked at how low occupancy rates would have to be for a hotel to not make money.


The peak profit occupancy rate for a hotel is between 75 and 85%. The rate at which they turn any profit period, varies greatly from place to place. But this hotel would not be anywhere near 85% about 90% of the year.

The main draw of the location would be the proximity to the stadium, which frankly isn't a really great draw as the rest of the things hotel clientele would want to do are located in the city. There are a thousand hotel and bar shuttles that take you right to the entrance. This idea simply is not addressing a big need for any significant number of people, and there is a major bias toward its actual need on a website like this.

It would have to be drawing people during the offseason, like the thing Packers have going on, and it's just not going to do that.

As far as my general analysts comment, I'm just telling you that I can promise you real estate analysts and developers have explored this idea, likely two decades ago, and came back with the conclusion that it didn't make sense.

Now, if that area of West Milwaukee "gentrified" and became full of young people and trendy restaurants, you might have a different situation.


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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#45

Posted: November 15, 2018, 9:26 AM Post
Posts: 7644
I think it could work, but no idea if it actually WOULD. It would be in an area with no other hotels, and could attract a fair amount of business travelers. MP does have quite a bit of industry nearby. It could even take spill-over from the Medical Center, office park area around the zoo interchange. There's a couple hotels over there, but if the MP hotel would be a Marriott brand for example, it may pull from that area.


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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#46

Posted: November 15, 2018, 12:33 PM Post
Posts: 3524
Location: Madison, WI
Yea it's not like it's 15 miles from the main downtown, it would be just like any other hotel in the offseason. Poto is the most obvious example and as I said they charge 300-400/night on weekends when the Brewers are home and they're sold out. Granted, they have the casino there but it's basically in the same area. If they've deemed MKE is oversaturated on hotels that is logical and they're the experts. But if you could just take that Best Western or some other hotel within 3-5 miles of MP and transplant into the MP parking lot I'm sure it would do better than it's current spot. As noted though, is it worth hundreds of millions in investment 20 years after MP was already built. Probably not.


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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#47

Posted: November 15, 2018, 12:37 PM Post
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Haven't the Brewers already done a analysis/research of a ballpark village or some other type of building up some stuff around Miller Park? Wasn't that deemed, "not worthy"? I recall someone mentioning it in a thread long ago.


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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#48

Posted: November 15, 2018, 1:38 PM Post
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Regardless of that analysis being public or not, yes, it's been done, with 100% certainty. That is the kind of thing they are likely investigating every decade or so.


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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#49

Posted: November 15, 2018, 1:45 PM Post
Posts: 9761
OldSchoolSnapper said:
Regardless of that analysis being public or not, yes, it's been done, with 100% certainty. That is the kind of thing they are likely investigating every decade or so.


Right, I thought it came up again not too terribly long ago semi-public. I think the Brewers would love to build up around Miller Park...but it just isn't worth the massive upfront investment with little potential to grow past their investment. There really isn't room to expand and it isn't like anything is ready to be bought and bulldozed. A lot of it is residential.

We built in an area that doesn't have big economic growth potential.


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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#50

Posted: November 15, 2018, 2:16 PM Post
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Something I haven't seen brought up is the issue of entertainment spend having very set caps. This has been studied in academia for a while every time some team promises "economic growth" with a stadium and it's been pretty much proven to be nonsense. All the developments do are reallocate dollars, they don't "grow" anything. If you put Fiserv Forum in, it's great for the Bucks, but usually at the expense of something else. People will see fewer movies, but go to an extra game, etc. Those types of projects do very little or nothing to "develop" the economy; they just slice the pie differently.

Which ties in to what you just said, the economic growth isn't there. If the neighborhood became Tosa 2.0 or something, that's different story. These types of projects do best in areas where the income is outpacing the options for things to do. Areas in SE WI where that is most true right now would be the Washington County area which has seen a housing boom the last 5 years but is still lacking some upscale leisure. I'm not saying build Brewers Village in Washington County, just saying that's the type of imbalance developers want when they do something like this.


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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#51

Posted: November 15, 2018, 3:17 PM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
Granted, they have the casino there but it's basically in the same area.


Umm yeah, the casino is the reason for the hotel. Comparing a Miller Park hotel to the Potawatomi hotel, is about as big of an apples and oranges comparison as you can make. And while it is a decent walk, it's plausible that you could walk from the casino to downtown. Not only that but the Potawatomi hotel is also close to popular neighborhoods, Walker's Point and the Third Ward. Not so much from Miller Park.

I also think it's funny who started this thread considering a hotel right by Miller Park would hugely cater to Cubs fans, especially on weekends.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#52

Posted: November 15, 2018, 3:32 PM Post
Posts: 3524
Location: Madison, WI
trwi7 said:
tmwiese55 said:
Granted, they have the casino there but it's basically in the same area.


Umm yeah, the casino is the reason for the hotel. Comparing a Miller Park hotel to the Potawatomi hotel, is about as big of an apples and oranges comparison as you can make. And while it is a decent walk, it's plausible that you could walk from the casino to downtown. Not only that but the Potawatomi hotel is also close to popular neighborhoods, Walker's Point and the Third Ward. Not so much from Miller Park.

I also think it's funny who started this thread considering a hotel right by Miller Park would hugely cater to Cubs fans, especially on weekends.


Yea it's the reason it exists but I'm just pointing out that it's the 2nd closest hotel to MP and sells rooms for 3-400 on weekends because of it, so just showing there is a demand in the area. Still, is it worth it considering weeknights are likely blah and offseason of course is blah (whereas Poto has casino all the time)? Probably not at this point. For the distance stuff, Poto is like 1 to 1.5 miles from MP. so anything Poto is close to so is MP


Last edited by tmwiese55 on November 16, 2018, 9:15 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#53

Posted: November 15, 2018, 4:58 PM Post
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I think this comes down to people drastically exaggerating the number of people consistently coming down from other parts of the state to go to Brewers games. Sure, that happens. But the majority of people are an hour away tops and want to go home. There aren't enough people coming down every weekend from Superior and Neenah to justify a hotel. Even if they are, they're staying in a place close to the city to get the "Milwaukee experience" and go out on Water, take their kids to Betty Brinn, or eat downtown.

There's just no incentive to stay near the stadium. It is extremely easy to get there from the city where everything else is. Putting it where it is was the trade-off for continuing the tailgate tradition.


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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#54

Posted: November 15, 2018, 9:34 PM Post
Posts: 1168
OldSchoolSnapper said:
I think this comes down to people drastically exaggerating the number of people consistently coming down from other parts of the state to go to Brewers games. Sure, that happens. But the majority of people are an hour away tops and want to go home.


I'd love to see the studies that support your opinion on that.


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Offline  Re: Miller Parck Hotel
#55

Posted: November 15, 2018, 9:49 PM Post
Posts: 9761
wallus said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
I think this comes down to people drastically exaggerating the number of people consistently coming down from other parts of the state to go to Brewers games. Sure, that happens. But the majority of people are an hour away tops and want to go home.


I'd love to see the studies that support your opinion on that.


The Brewers have a major pull from outside the Milwaukee area compared to what other teams do. That is totally true...especially come summer time. That’s because it is a easy drive and mostly stress free...and for the roof. No risk of rain allows people 2 hours away to comfortably come.

Problem is at the same time the majority of that greater pull radius are still close enough where a hotel isn’t needed. Stevens Point, Oshkosh, Madison, Green Bay, Wis Dells, Beloit, etc. are all within travel distance. Everyone I know in these areas never spend the night in a hotel. All travel home.

I’d say you’d have to be 2.5 hours or more to be in likely hotel stay range. Living in that area almost all these people go to Sunday games so they can drive there’s and back same day. Wisconsin people are pretty frugal especially in rural areas. They don’t like blowing money on hotels. Even the biggest fans I know up here go to max 3 games a year typically. They aren’t a big percentage of the fans on any given day.


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Offline  Re: Miller Parck Hotel
#56

Posted: November 15, 2018, 11:37 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
wallus said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
I think this comes down to people drastically exaggerating the number of people consistently coming down from other parts of the state to go to Brewers games. Sure, that happens. But the majority of people are an hour away tops and want to go home.


I'd love to see the studies that support your opinion on that.


The Brewers have a major pull from outside the Milwaukee area compared to what other teams do. That is totally true...especially come summer time. That’s because it is a easy drive and mostly stress free...and for the roof. No risk of rain allows people 2 hours away to comfortably come.

Problem is at the same time the majority of that greater pull radius are still close enough where a hotel isn’t needed. Stevens Point, Oshkosh, Madison, Green Bay, Wis Dells, Beloit, etc. are all within travel distance. Everyone I know in these areas never spend the night in a hotel. All travel home.

I’d say you’d have to be 2.5 hours or more to be in likely hotel stay range. Living in that area almost all these people go to Sunday games so they can drive there’s and back same day. Wisconsin people are pretty frugal especially in rural areas. They don’t like blowing money on hotels. Even the biggest fans I know up here go to max 3 games a year typically. They aren’t a big percentage of the fans on any given day.


Not only this but if you're staying for a weekend, why would you want to stay near Miller Park? If you're here during Summerfest, you would probably want to stay in the Kimpton or Westin which are right by the Summerfest Grounds and also Betty Brinn, Discovery World and the Art Museum. If you want discounted and halfway between Miller Park and downtown you can stay at the Ambassador. If it's a bunch of younger people who want to bar hop after the game they would stay along the river.

There is just nothing near Miller Park that would make people want to stay at a hotel there unless people get their kicks at a Walmart Super Center or Target. If I live in Eau Claire or something and am coming down for a weekend series, I'm not going to want to stay in an area that has just the stadium. It's most likely nice weather, I'm going to want to be at the beach or just walking around downtown or doing literally anything other than sitting in my hotel room waiting for the gates to open.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#57

Posted: November 16, 2018, 9:09 AM Post
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wallus said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
I think this comes down to people drastically exaggerating the number of people consistently coming down from other parts of the state to go to Brewers games. Sure, that happens. But the majority of people are an hour away tops and want to go home.


I'd love to see the studies that support your opinion on that.


I doubt that has been greatly "studied" in academia. Do you really think the majority of people are coming from outside an hour? It's not enough of their clientele to justify this type of project. My apparently controversial statement means that over 50% of attendees live within an hour of the stadium...you think that's not the case? Sorry, uh, it is. I'd guess that number is more like 95% on a given day.

If you compare it to Lambeau where the team plays once a week and 8x per year, you're going to have a FAR more diverse crowd of people from all over the state.

I think the fact that no such area exists and the stadium is approaching 20 year olds makes it more likely than not that it's true. Do you have some evidence to the contrary?

Even if they are, they are only doing so on weekend home games. It just isn't a great number of dates.


Last edited by OldSchoolSnapper on November 16, 2018, 9:16 AM, edited 2 times in total.

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Offline  Re: Miller Park Hotel
#58

Posted: November 16, 2018, 9:13 AM Post
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trw, exactly. If you come out of town you make a weekend of it and want the lake, a festival, Betty Brinn, night life, food...not Cermak and a bank.


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