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Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019

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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 15, 2019, 12:06 PM Post
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I think he probably would have. The Bulls were pretty dominant in the series that they won, I don't recall a single one of them going 7, and the league had some pretty strong parity back then. Houston had their hands full with the Knicks the first year and I just can't see that Knicks team doing anything to Jordan's Bulls.


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 15, 2019, 12:17 PM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
You're right they didn't go 7 in the Finals. But that Knicks team you speak of took them to 7 prior the Finals and took them 6 another time. They also had to go 7 vs Indiana in the 2nd 3 pete. And it seems like almost all of the Finals went 6. On paper I'd agree they should've won all 8, but I'm just saying we don't know the trickle down effect if he hadn't quit. What other moves are made by other teams, if their internal tensions/pressure break them up, do they swap out roles players from team 1 for the guys in team 2, do they add all those guys to the team in 96 to make those last 3 years almost unbeatable? Things like that. Remember part of the discussion on him quitting was just being burned out by it all, that break might've been the best thing for his mind and body. That's why I'd put my money on No, just due to so many variables. But of course I wouldn't be surprised at all if they had done it or would I be stomping my feet saying 'no way' or anything like that


Last edited by tmwiese55 on October 15, 2019, 12:22 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 15, 2019, 12:20 PM Post
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I think it's more likely that they would've won at least like 5 in a row, but maybe the ones at the end, the dynasty may have been picked apart by then, or maybe he burns out earlier than '98.


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 15, 2019, 4:10 PM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
First, I'd doubt they win 8 in a row if he'd stayed. Besides the tensions and all that which comes with it him leaving made them add to the team and then he came back and made their second team unbeatable. Essentially to replace MJ they brought in All Star Harper and Kukoc. Then added MJ back in, then got Rodman. That second squad was as lopsided of a team than any of the superstar teams like GSW that everyone has complained about the last few years. Basically just saying I'm not sure all those moves happen if he doesn't leave so it would made every year more and more vulnerable. Then you gotta wonder if maybe he and Pippen have a falling out at some point through it all. Plus, as is often forgotten in this discussion they got beat with him that year he came back. I know that sounds like me being a hater on MJ, but I would still rank him probably slightly best player ever over LBJ.

IMO Gretzky is clearly the major sport athlete far and away better than his peers. MJ gets talked about like that but I don't think the gap between him and LBJ, Magic, Kareem, Bird etc is anywhere close to the gap between GRetzky and others. Take a look at the hockey stats sometime, he has something like 50% more points than anyone else.


Fun Fact: When Gretzky was a SQUIRT level player he scored like 350 goals in 85 games. Had over 500 points.


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 16, 2019, 7:44 AM Post
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What Gretzky did during his time in the game will never be matched by anyone in their sport, ever. If you really dive into the numbers, you'd think they were made up they're so ridiculous.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 16, 2019, 7:48 AM Post
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Brew4U said:
What Gretzky did during his time in the game will never be matched by anyone in their sport, ever. If you really dive into the numbers, you'd think they were made up they're so ridiculous.


I agree. To be fair though, the goalies then were nothing like they are today.


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 16, 2019, 7:58 AM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
Exactly, thanks. I'm no hockey expert and i'm sure you're correct in pointing out differences to now. But, for the 20ish years he played the guys he was up against played by the same rules and against the same comp and look at how ridiculous the numbers are. As you say, it's almost video game level of absurd.


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 16, 2019, 8:21 AM Post
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I'm not a hockey guy, have never followed it, so how many championships did Gretzky get?

Not trying to be salty, or confrontational, seriously, a guy that good should have championships, so how many did he get?

(I could google it, but would rather hear from people here)

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 16, 2019, 8:33 AM Post
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turborickey said:
I'm not a hockey guy, have never followed it, so how many championships did Gretzky get?

Not trying to be salty, or confrontational, seriously, a guy that good should have championships, so how many did he get?

(I could google it, but would rather hear from people here)


Pretty sure he won four with Edmonton. Made it to one with with the LA Kings but lost.


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 16, 2019, 8:35 AM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
turborickey said:
I'm not a hockey guy, have never followed it, so how many championships did Gretzky get?

Not trying to be salty, or confrontational, seriously, a guy that good should have championships, so how many did he get?

(I could google it, but would rather hear from people here)


I believe he won 4 straight early in his career with Edmonton and those teams were considered some of the best ever. Then got traded and never won another, I think did make it to the Finals a few times though. Not being a hockey guy, I'd assume the trade to LA gutted their whole team around him.

Several quick tidbits interesting on Wiki. First: Gretzky is the leading scorer in NHL history, with more goals and assists than any other player. He garnered more assists than any other player scored total points, and is the only NHL player to total over 200 points in one season – a feat he accomplished four times. Between 1982 and 1985, the Edmonton Oilers averaged 423 goals a season, when no previous team had scored 400, and Gretzky on his own had averaged 207 points, when no player before had scored more than 152 in one year.

Besides that, they changed the penalty rules because he was too good: In June 1985, as part of a package of five rule changes to be implemented for the 1985–86 season, the NHL Board of Governors decided to introduce offsetting penalties, where neither team lost a man when coincidental penalties were called. The effect of calling offsetting penalties was felt immediately in the NHL, because during the early 1980s, when the Gretzky-era Oilers entered a four-on-four or three-on-three situation with an opponent, they frequently used the space on the ice to score one or more goals. Gretzky held a press conference one day after being awarded the Hart Memorial Trophy, criticizing the NHL for punishing teams and players who previously benefited. The rule change became known as the "Gretzky rule".

That is the opposite of what the NBA did for Jordan in changing the rules to help him.


Last edited by tmwiese55 on October 16, 2019, 8:41 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 16, 2019, 8:38 AM Post
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Gretzky himself has said on numerous occasions those scoring records are cartoony. He didn't play with any back pressure bringing the puck up, and prolific scorers like him were allowed to be as creative as they wanted. Defense isn't played like that anymore and those records are basically untouchable. He went as far as saying he couldn't play in today's game, which is an overdose of humility, but he wouldn't be scoring 50 goals in 28 games.


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 16, 2019, 8:47 AM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
I'm sure that's true and all. But again, comparing it to what was before him and what he played against at the time and he blew it all out of the water. I'd guess you could have a discussion too that what he did changed how defenses need to be played which has led to the evolution to now? There is a section on Wiki about how he changed the way the game was played on offense in regards to passing and team play. I guess I'm saying you could probably just as easily make an argument that how defenses have evolved is a testament to how ridiculous he was. Fully acknowledge I'm not a hockey guy though, just having a discussion.


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 16, 2019, 8:51 AM Post
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Many things have changed in the game since Gretzky played but other guys weren't putting up Gretzky numbers or ever close to it during that time period. He was in a class of his own.

Hockey is also the ultimate team game. You don't win championships with just having the best player as you do in the NBA.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 16, 2019, 9:01 AM Post
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I mean, sort of. He is clearly the greatest player in the sport imo, but lots of other guys were putting up numbers during that era that would be absolutely god-like now. Pretty sure Phil Esposito topped 70 and was over 60 several times, Lemiuex and Hull both hit over 80. Ovechkin leads most years and flirts with 50. Hitting 60 today is a certified monster. He had the best vision of any player I've ever seen. He was not a particularly fast skater nor did he have a great shot.


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 16, 2019, 9:22 AM Post
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The year Gretzky scored 92 goals (in 80 games), the next closes had 64 (Mike Bossy). Same with assists that year. He had 120 assists and the next closest was Peter Stantsy with 94. So while numbers were up, he still shattered the competition in his era.

I think Gretzky could slap on the pads today and find a way to get to 40 assists just based on his hockey sense alone.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 16, 2019, 9:28 AM Post
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Yes, he is the best, but IMO he would also stand to lose the most in today's game, being that his vision of the ice is what made him great. Way ahead of his time, but the back pressure of today's game would slow down a lot of his advantage. He never had a wrist shot as good as somebody like Ovechkin, and just lacked the physical prowess of someone like that/Lemieux. Of course, he was also the king of deflecting praise to other people, so we'll never know what he really thinks.


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 16, 2019, 7:36 PM Post
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nate82 said:
nodakfan17 said:
If Michael Jordan doesn’t play baseball, do the Bulls 8-peat? If so, is Michael Jordan then the best athlete (of any sport) of all all-time without question?


I think Jordan is the greatest athlete of any sport. I think Gretzky could give him a run but that is the only player I can think of who maybe as good or better than Jordan. In the NFL I don't see anyone who can challenge those two same with MLB maybe Ted Williams if he didn't go to war twice.

I think Bo Jackson - an all-star in baseball and football - deserves to be in that conversation. Jordan was much more successful, but I'd put Jackson as the better athlete. Deion Sanders belongs in the conversation as well - perhaps the best DB/KR of all time and good enough to be a competent MLB player.

FWIW, while Jordan was a decent baseball player, I don't know if he ever makes the majors (on merit), much less the MLB All Star game.


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 17, 2019, 3:53 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
What Gretzky did during his time in the game will never be matched by anyone in their sport, ever. If you really dive into the numbers, you'd think they were made up they're so ridiculous.



People said the same thing about Don Hutson. It's really astounding how long his receiving records lasted. Dude played 75 years ago and is STILL #11 all-time in receiving touchdowns.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Online  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 18, 2019, 3:23 PM Post
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LouisEly said:
nate82 said:
nodakfan17 said:
If Michael Jordan doesn’t play baseball, do the Bulls 8-peat? If so, is Michael Jordan then the best athlete (of any sport) of all all-time without question?


I think Jordan is the greatest athlete of any sport. I think Gretzky could give him a run but that is the only player I can think of who maybe as good or better than Jordan. In the NFL I don't see anyone who can challenge those two same with MLB maybe Ted Williams if he didn't go to war twice.

I think Bo Jackson - an all-star in baseball and football - deserves to be in that conversation. Jordan was much more successful, but I'd put Jackson as the better athlete. Deion Sanders belongs in the conversation as well - perhaps the best DB/KR of all time and good enough to be a competent MLB player.

FWIW, while Jordan was a decent baseball player, I don't know if he ever makes the majors (on merit), much less the MLB All Star game.


It's impossible to say who's the best over every sport but Simone Biles is literally making the sport rewrite the code of points because she's doing things previously thought impossible. What's more, it's not like gymnastics is a fringe sport with few participants. It probably has more participants in it than hockey, basketball and football combined.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Offline  Re: Random thoughts that are pointless and too dumb to say anywhere else thread: 2019
Posted: October 27, 2019, 5:21 PM Post
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There are few pleasures as singular and true as watching a new england kicker shank the crap out of a fg attempt. Too bad they’re still going to win. I want to watch their frumpy prick suffer on the sidelines. Maybe at our hands in the superb owl? One can only hope.


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