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Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?

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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 13, 2019, 10:50 AM Post
Posts: 5274
Location: New Berlin, WI
MrTPlush said:
As far as your numbers Keith $55k is pretty close to the low end of the monthly range you gave. If you have the average student debt amount that has to pushing $350 a month. Assuming basic expenses (including a reasonable car loan) I would venture to guess your surplus money every month would be less than $750...largely hinging on if a student needs their own health/dental insurance. Depending on where you live maybe closer to $500 or maybe $1,000. When you consider most college students graduate broke I don't think they can really afford to double their payment and pay it off in 5 years vs. 10 years. They need to build up a pile of cash for emergencies and what not...not live pay check to pay check to pay off the loans faster.

That being said many college grads have zero shame in living at home for quite a few years post graduation to either save money or pay down the loans really fast. Not everyone may have that opportunity, but many are doing exactly that.


I may be a bit out of touch on some of this stuff. I was making low 40s coming out of school and I thought I remember my bi-weekly paychecks being in the $1,200 range. Maybe my range is a bit high. You make a good point about location, I'm sure Milwaukee area is a bit less expensive to live than many other states. I also did live at home and paid off my entire student loans in about a bit over a year...and bought a house maybe 9 months later at the very bottom of the housing market. Not everyone is that disciplined though, but frankly you don't need to be to pay down your loans quickly if you choose to. $750 surplus seems reasonable if you have a roommate and control your entertainment expense, but you can build an emergency fund for those first 6 months that your loans don't accrue interest or require repayment out of school. Maybe you can't quite double it, but even paying $600 instead of $350 per month probably gets the loans paid off in something like 4 years versus 10 years.


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 13, 2019, 10:56 AM Post
Posts: 1155
MrTPlush said:
PlayerHader said:
MrTPlush said:
Students should not be directed to trade schools, I am so sick of hearing that. Students should be directed to all their options and do what they want. They should be educated on the financial side of things and their outlook post graduation in whatever interests them. The country may be in dire need of plumbers etc., but students shouldn't be pushed to do something. Students shouldn't be directed to go to a trade school because there is crippling debt via university...that's really just trying to ignore the problem.

Now should students be educated on trade schools and how that job market is great with decent pay? Sure! But the whole push of older generations telling kids to go be plumbers etc. is just wrong. I see it on Facebook every single time student debt or college costs comes up. Someone should be able to go be a social worker, teacher, or one of many other essential job in society without carrying around a bunch of debt. I always see people touting how they are so smart because they went to trade school and make good money blah blah blah. If you are a fan of a trade school related job and can do it all the more power.

Like I said before I think post bachelor education is the problem. That is where many find unavoidable crippling debt...especially if they got debt via their bachelor's degree to. If you have crippling debt from undergrad ($50k+ in my opinion is getting troublesome) then I think you probably made a poor financial decision. But that is the problem, the first four years already put you with a huge chunk of debt early in life. It quickly gets hard for people to add anymore debt, whether that be more schooling, car, house, etc.

As far as your numbers Keith $55k is pretty close to the low end of the monthly range you gave. If you have the average student debt amount that has to pushing $350 a month. Assuming basic expenses (including a reasonable car loan) I would venture to guess your surplus money every month would be less than $750...largely hinging on if a student needs their own health/dental insurance. Depending on where you live maybe closer to $500 or maybe $1,000. When you consider most college students graduate broke I don't think they can really afford to double their payment and pay it off in 5 years vs. 10 years. They need to build up a pile of cash for emergencies and what not...not live pay check to pay check to pay off the loans faster.

That being said many college grads have zero shame in living at home for quite a few years post graduation to either save money or pay down the loans really fast. Not everyone may have that opportunity, but many are doing exactly that.


I could be wrong, but I don't think "push trade schools" means directing individual students to something that they don't want to do. It's about, as you said, making sure students are aware that there are valuable and even lucrative options out there besides the 4-year degree. I see kids pass through every year who would be happy as welders/plumbers/electricians/carpenters/etc...but feel they are more of a "college type" person. That's fine, too, as long as they are aware of the options and costs of each.

Regarding living at home for a few years after college...Do you think there should be some shame in that?


If you word it as push kids towards trade school...yes, I think that means directing them to do it. Many people think college is dumb and not worth it (statistically wrong) and kids should go to trade school. Typically these people are in trades so they have bias, but when it is mentioned usually one is referring that kids should flat out go into a trade and not university...if you do you are dumb and wasting money.

As far as living at home, no, I don't think there should be shame in that. Most people I know who are or have done it usually pay zero bills on top of it though. Their parents are still paying for their car, the car insurance, the phone, and the food. Now should there be shame in that? Well, seems like eventually you need to put on the big boy/girl pants and face reality. For the time I did it I gave money for food, had my own car at that point, and paid for my phone (I did stay on their plan to save money though). Basically I just lived rent free...I paid for my other necessities. It is a newer trend, but people have been doing the same before getting married to save money on the expense for quite a long time, so not much different.

That being said I did not do it to pay off the loans faster. I was actually just compiling money for stuff when I moved out and to get a huge head start saving the 20%+ for the down payment on a house. The loan doesn't really bother me (about $255 a month). I valued avoiding mortgage insurance and the insane costs of not putting a lot down on a house (tens of thousands, much more than the few thousand the student loan costs). Plus it allows me to buy a house years before I would have otherwise.


If you are talking about individual students, yes, "pushing trade schools" might imply that. When you are talking about hundreds of students passing through a high school... you are "pushing" the idea. Yes, numbers show that a four year degree leads to greater career earnings on average. That doesn't help the significant number of students who get a 4 (or 5) year degree in something they aren't all that apt to do (because they are supposed to get that BA/BS), graduate with debt, and can't find a job in a field without demand (which they may or may not really desire anyway).

That's why you "push trade schools."


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 13, 2019, 11:08 AM Post
Posts: 5274
Location: New Berlin, WI
PlayerHader said:
If you are talking about individual students, yes, "pushing trade schools" might imply that. When you are talking about hundreds of students passing through a high school... you are "pushing" the idea. Yes, numbers show that a four year degree leads to greater career earnings on average. That doesn't help the significant number of students who get a 4 (or 5) year degree in something they aren't all that apt to do (because they are supposed to get that BA/BS), graduate with debt, and can't find a job in a field without demand (which they may or may not really desire anyway).

That's why you "push trade schools."


I feel like it's hard to do anything more than provide the information and let kids make their own decisions. Can't risk identifying certain kids that maybe aren't cut out for most 4 year degrees and pushing them toward a trade school. The key is for the stigma of trade schools being a bad option to simply go away. There is certainly something to be said for getting done with school at age 19 or 20, making surprisingly good money, working set hours, and never taking your work home with you. Especially considering those jobs will only pay more and more while less and less people go into those fields. Simple supply and demand.


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 13, 2019, 11:10 AM Post
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Agreed with the above. "Pushing trade schools" could be misleading a bit. Eliminating any stigma is the better way of capturing the intent.


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 13, 2019, 11:24 AM Post
Posts: 4861
Location: Madison, WI
Also, many people in those trades end up making it their own business. Sometimes just for themselves, other times they start doing so well and it becomes bigger and bigger and next thing you know you're the owner of a fairly legit business with several employees. Being your own boss is a huge perk. The stigma needs to go away.


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 13, 2019, 11:44 AM Post
Posts: 1155
tmwiese55 said:
Also, many people in those trades end up making it their own business. Sometimes just for themselves, other times they start doing so well and it becomes bigger and bigger and next thing you know you're the owner of a fairly legit business with several employees. Being your own boss is a huge perk. The stigma needs to go away.


Absolutely. It may be the cleanest path to self-employment.


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Online  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 13, 2019, 11:52 AM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
Also, many people in those trades end up making it their own business. Sometimes just for themselves, other times they start doing so well and it becomes bigger and bigger and next thing you know you're the owner of a fairly legit business with several employees. Being your own boss is a huge perk. The stigma needs to go away.


Side story....I read an article about a 40 year old guy in Cleveland who owned his own car repair shop. He decided he needed to learn more about running a business so he went back to school to get his degree. One of his required classes was a biology class which he pushed off until the end because he thought it was useless and he wasn't really into science. But he had to take it to graduate and ended up loving it. In fact, he loved it and his teacher so much that he ended up going to medical school after graduating from college. He's now a 47 year old resident. Crazy inspiring story and also shows how a well-rounded education can open up eyes to career paths you didn't think were attainable or within your skillset.

https://www.cleveland.com/tipoff/2019/0 ... ctors.html

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 13, 2019, 4:40 PM Post
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I get it now. Gen X is clearly better than either Millennials or Boomers. After all, we gave you drive- thrus and the USFL. You're welcome.


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Online  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 13, 2019, 6:34 PM Post
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FVBrewerFan said:
I get it now. Gen X is clearly better than either Millennials or Boomers.


yes. This was established on page 1.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Online  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 13, 2019, 8:29 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
All I know is I’m tired of HS kids saying “okay boomer” to anyone that is older to them as a snide remark.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Online  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 13, 2019, 8:37 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
All I know is I’m tired of HS kids saying “okay boomer” to anyone that is older to them as a snide remark.



Hence the title of thread! We've come full circle!

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 13, 2019, 11:30 PM Post
Posts: 1155
Brew4U said:
All I know is I’m tired of HS kids saying “okay boomer” to anyone that is older to them as a snide remark.


Hasn’t made its way up to the northwoods schools yet. We are usually several months behind.


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 13, 2019, 11:31 PM Post
Posts: 1155
Brew4U said:
All I know is I’m tired of HS kids saying “okay boomer” to anyone that is older to them as a snide remark.


Hasn’t made its way up to the northwoods schools yet. We are usually several months behind.


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 14, 2019, 7:02 AM Post
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Take solace in the fact that they very likely don't know what boomer means and just took it from a meme.


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 15, 2019, 5:18 PM Post
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I think part of the "pushing college" thing comes from parents who watched the local factory jobs dry up and move away and thought that they were trying to help their kids avoid being in that situation. The trades weren't thought of as being that lucrative because of the volatility of booms/busts in the economy and 20+ years ago more people could do basic plumbing/electrical/drywall/etc.

The statistics say that the unemployment rate for college educated people is much lower than those with just a HS education. It's fear of a worst-case scenario.


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 15, 2019, 7:15 PM Post
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My boomer father was a carpenter and drywaller. When the recession in the early 80's hit the interest rated skyrocketed. There was no work, and I remember my father standing in line for government cheese. There was no way I would ever go into the trades. I would make sure I put myself in a position, so that would never happen to me. I'm not against the trades, but I want people to know what could and might happen when there is an economic slowdown.

Right or wrong... I chose not to save any money for my kids education. I work extremely hard to pay off my house, dump as much money as I can in a 401k, and be completely debt free. I've haven't had any credit card interest or car loan interest since 1997. My 1st daughter will graduate high school in 5.5 years and my 2nd in 7.5 years. My house will be paid off in just less than 5 years. College bills scare me... my oldest wants to be an early education teacher and my youngest a pediatrician.


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 15, 2019, 7:53 PM Post
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I've never thought not paying for kids' college is "wrong." The expectation that you should is kind of silly to me. They have a lifetime to pay for it, you don't.


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 15, 2019, 7:59 PM Post
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Right or wrong for me meaning do I start a 529 account right away or pay my debt first. I don't know which would have saved me the most money in the long term.


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 16, 2019, 7:40 AM Post
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I'd probably say all non-mortgage debt takes priority. I opened two of them while still paying my own student loans but I just wanted to get it rolling. I was paying $1k a month on a loan with a $233 payment though so I was already fairly aggressive on it. I got lucky with my mortgage being 3% so I've never been in a hurry to pay it off. I'll likely live there forever and it's a modest house so I never really worried about it.


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Offline  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
Posted: November 16, 2019, 9:40 AM Post
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I think we put like $50 a month into both of our children’s 529 accounts. It’s not much, but we started early enough where at could very well be $15k our more by the time they’d need it.

I don’t think anybody has to pay anything for their children’s higher ed, but I KNOW I will end up helping them in some way simply because I will want to, so I might as well let tax free growth maximize that.


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