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Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?

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Online  Re: Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?
#61

Posted: November 11, 2019, 12:18 PM Post
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Good discussion so far. Let's make sure to steer clear of politics.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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#62

Posted: November 11, 2019, 2:43 PM Post
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One general comment I don't think people in WI know how good they have it in terms of options for college. Compared to other states like AZ where you basically have about 4 choices to go to a major school while in WI there are at least 6 choices that you can pick from and if you choose the UW system everything transfers as if they were taken at UW-Madison. So if you wanted to save money and graduate from UW-Madison you could take the first 2 or 3-years at UW-Whitewater, UW-Parkside, UW-Stout, UW-whatever and come out with only 1 or 2-years of expensive tuition.

I haven't looked this up but I believe the UW system is probably the most affordable college system in the country.


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#63

Posted: November 11, 2019, 3:47 PM Post
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UW-Madison isn’t even expensive, it is dirt cheap for that kind of education. I think the average cost for a public university in Illinois is pushing $15k or so (minimum $13k). Madison is in the 11k range and the UW system is as low as $8k.

Obviously there are other assorted costs, but the Wisconsin system is cheap. I don’t think it is Top 10...but fairly close.


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#64

Posted: November 11, 2019, 4:27 PM Post
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"Cheap" is relative obviously and compared to schools of similar standing, UW is less expensive. Back in the day when tuition was about $1200 a semester, you could get out of school with hardly any debt at all with a summer job and maybe working part-time during school. Had tuition simply matched inflation the last 30 years you'd be looking at like $2130 a semester instead of the $5350 or whatever it is this year. I don't claim to know all the reasons why it's so much more expensive but to me it used to be very affordable and now it isn't given that wages have not risen at the same rate as tuition.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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#65

Posted: November 11, 2019, 4:44 PM Post
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I went to Whitewater starting in 1991. I can remember the tuition with room and meal plan was 2,000 a semester, and books were a couple hundred extra. I took out a Stafford loan.


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#66

Posted: November 11, 2019, 5:15 PM Post
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Those conversations are hard to quantify because the state school system has to be priced for the state since that is where most people are coming from. WI is not really a high-income state and the COL in the midwest in general is very low compared to the country, so the tuition is naturally going to be lower there than a lot of places. I do agree though that the selection of satellite schools is very good.


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#67

Posted: November 11, 2019, 6:03 PM Post
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BrewersSuperCollector said:
I went to Whitewater starting in 1991. I can remember the tuition with room and meal plan was 2,000 a semester, and books were a couple hundred extra. I took out a Stafford loan.

Dude... what dorm and floor? I was Wellers, 3rd floor. Do we know each other??


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#68

Posted: November 11, 2019, 6:29 PM Post
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Lots of good points being made on all sides in this thread. My $0.02:

1) Everybody's frame of reference is their own personal experience, which is going to be different for many people.

B) My frame of reference is that I went to a high school that had no advance placement courses, no honors classes, and my class had a dropout rate of almost 25%. And no internet. How the hell was I supposed to compete for scholarships based on ACT scores? My family didn't have a lot of money, but I knew that the state of WI had a program where if you finished in the top 1% of your class you could go to any state school tuition-free. I busted my ass in high school - and took a lot of crap from people who resented me doing well, and because of no honors classes I had to sit in the same classes with them all damn day - and got that scholarship. I was making six figures by the age of 31. I made a lot of sacrifices to get there, including moving to places where I knew nobody. I forced myself to get better. I forced myself to understand finance and investing (and because of that, I knew the recession of 2008 was coming back in 2006.) If people complain about their situation, the first questions I ask are what sacrifices have you made and what are you doing to educate yourself to the reality of the world? If the answers are anywhere close to "not much", you can guess how much sympathy I have.

C) Every generation has been sold a bill of goods. For Millennials, it's student loans. For Boomers, it's that pensions and Social Security would be there to take care of them and that they could life a decent life with a decent wage and raise a family. While Millennials have no money, Boomers have been screwed out of billions of it by investment scams, telephone/internet scams, companies/pensions being wiped out, and the recessions of the 70's, early 2000's, and late 2000's. Boomers put everything into their home, and then either lost it to a recession or divorce. Speaking of divorce, Gen X's bill of goods was the Brady Bunch. Who the hell grew up in a house like that? We were lucky to live with two parents (who weren't yelling at each other), lucky to come home from school to one, and lucky not be held as barter between both of them. Oh, and many of our fathers came home from Vietnam - or lost friends there - and took that frustration out on us, just as Boomer's parents who served in WWII took it out on them.

D) As to why college is much more expensive now, the official line from UW-Madison is that funding from the state has drastically decreased over the last 20 years. Funding from the state used to cover most of tuition; now it only covers maybe 1/4th, if that. Most of UW's funding - according to them - is privately generated, and UW-Madison is very close to being able to qualify as a private school. According to them.


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#69

Posted: November 11, 2019, 6:42 PM Post
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LouisEly said:
BrewersSuperCollector said:
I went to Whitewater starting in 1991. I can remember the tuition with room and meal plan was 2,000 a semester, and books were a couple hundred extra. I took out a Stafford loan.

Dude... what dorm and floor? I was Wellers, 3rd floor. Do we know each other??


I don't think so. Clem


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#70

Posted: November 11, 2019, 6:51 PM Post
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This thread was about to be WOAH SOLVVD if you guys knew each other.


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#71

Posted: November 11, 2019, 8:11 PM Post
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nate82 said:
One general comment I don't think people in WI know how good they have it in terms of options for college. Compared to other states like AZ where you basically have about 4 choices to go to a major school while in WI there are at least 6 choices that you can pick from and if you choose the UW system everything transfers as if they were taken at UW-Madison.

Wisconsin probably ranks up there in terms of affordability and options, but I’ve always been envious of students from Minnesota who enjoy reciprocity agreements with Wisconsin, Iowa, North Dakota, South Dakota, and even Manitoba.


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#72

Posted: November 11, 2019, 8:21 PM Post
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I think people overestimate the number of boomers that went to college. Many could still get good-paying low-skilled jobs right out of high school through the 1960s and early 1970s when most boomers were coming of age. Many boomers don't understand how the current generations (Millenials and Gen Z) simply can't do the same thing they did for a variety of reasons. Many of those that did go to college can't fathom how a student can't simply pay for their tuition by working through college.


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#73

Posted: November 11, 2019, 8:35 PM Post
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I’d venture to say the expectations for college are a lot different too. I’d guess back when less went to college the degree alone was probably enough to land a job easily. Now the expectation is for everyone to go to college which then means a lot of supply compared to the demand. Now grades can be important or even essential and internships are quickly becoming a need. Those two things don’t leave a lot of free time to have a job while in school.

I knew many people that went into Sport Management which continues to be a pathetically outdated industry that insists on free labor via interns (usually a comical stipend is offered). Internships are often required to graduate in that major. So you are essentially paying to work.


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#74

Posted: November 11, 2019, 9:35 PM Post
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Some random points to add:

My senior year of college I decided to live at home and make the hour-ish commute instead. I set my schedule so I only had classes 3 days a week. With the scholarships the school gave me and not having to pay for room or a meal plan, it cost me less to go to that private school than the local two-year UW school. Private schools throw gobs of money at kids to go there and can make it quite (relatively speaking) affordable.

After I graduated it was quite a few years before I could find any sort of related employment. It caused quite a rift between me and my parents (boomers) as they assumed I just wasn't trying. My mom went to Bellin College of Nursing decades ago and graduated with the equivalent of a certificate in nursing. The day after graduation she went to a local hospital just to ask if they had any openings. She was hired on the spot and worked that night. She retired a couple years ago after working her whole life at that same job. No way she could to relate to or understand anything I was going through.

I worked at a high school for a couple years and being there really opened my eyes to how ridiculous it is that we are putting such pressure on 16-18 year old kids to figure out their lives at that age. Not that they shouldn't be thinking about and planning it but a 4 year school right after high school shouldn't even be a consideration for all but a very few kids. Take a few Gen Ed classes at a local college or online and try to get a job of any kind in some sort of area that you're interested in to find out if you actually want to do it before dropping 100 grand and wasting 4 or 5 years of your life on something you might hate.


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#75

Posted: November 11, 2019, 10:25 PM Post
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jerichoholicninja said:
After I graduated it was quite a few years before I could find any sort of related employment. It caused quite a rift between me and my parents (boomers) as they assumed I just wasn't trying.

I had a similar experience. When I graduated college, I expected it would be fairly easy to find a job with my degree, but there was so much competition and I didnt really stand out so it was hard. I eventually got a job in a similar field to try and gain experience and was living with my dad and step mom, because I was still only making barely above minimum wage. I ended up losing that job, and took it as an opportunity to try again to get my "dream job". At first they were understanding and helpful, but they didnt seem to understand how long the application/interview processes were going to take. They would tell me all I needed to do was "pound the pavement" and just get out there and talk to people. Tensions rose and they threatened to cut off the internet, which is what I needed to put in applications and look for jobs, and eventually gave me a deadline to get a job or be kicked out. I remember one job they told me about, the interview processes would finish 4 months after their deadline.

Final result is I have a job, but it doesnt use my degree at all. I'm still trying to pay off my loans 12 years after graduation that is hampering my financial flexibility, but at least it didnt ruin our relationships.

reillymcshane said:
Remember what Yoda said:

"Cubs lead to Cardinals. Cardinals lead to dislike. Dislike leads to hate. Hate leads to constipation."


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#76

Posted: November 12, 2019, 12:59 AM Post
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MrTPlush said:
I’d venture to say the expectations for college are a lot different too. I’d guess back when less went to college the degree alone was probably enough to land a job easily. Now the expectation is for everyone to go to college which then means a lot of supply compared to the demand. Now grades can be important or even essential and internships are quickly becoming a need. Those two things don’t leave a lot of free time to have a job while in school.

I knew many people that went into Sport Management which continues to be a pathetically outdated industry that insists on free labor via interns (usually a comical stipend is offered). Internships are often required to graduate in that major. So you are essentially paying to work.


This is a really important point and one that speaks to how expensive college is favoring students from privileged backgrounds who can afford to work for free. Or in many cases you work in exchange for college credit which means you are literally paying money (in credit hours) to work! The economic inequity is what worries me. There is no system in place for it other than "get scholarships" which of course tend to go to the students who already have a leg up. Working harder can only get you so far.


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#77

Posted: November 12, 2019, 4:55 AM Post
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Unpaid internships should be against the law. Another predatory practice. There is a minimum wage yet we can pay an intern $0 under the guise of them being volunteers. They are "volunteers" in that if they don't work for free they won't have a career. No one should be subjected to that, and the companies that do it should be ashamed.

Hang on though - you have to pay for the credits when you take an internship for credit? I never did it, and always just assumed you took the internship and got the credits. It never dawned on me you had to pay for them. That seems insane to me. Where is the expense there that justifies the charge?


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#78

Posted: November 12, 2019, 8:31 AM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
Hang on though - you have to pay for the credits when you take an internship for credit? I never did it, and always just assumed you took the internship and got the credits. It never dawned on me you had to pay for them. That seems insane to me. Where is the expense there that justifies the charge?


There is no expense that justifies the charge. I think students usually have to do some basic reporting on what they are doing or what they did. Probably some type of reflection paper, but I am not entirely sure as I didn't personally do it. Isn't very shocking though. Online classes also have a premium price to take. I think the few times I did it there was a $250 or so charge for a three credit class. There ends up being little to no difference between the online class and the in class one. If there is a special online program you have to use through the book company you are the one that pays to get it, not the school...and many classes just go through the schools online portal that the in class people use to take assignments etc. I would say most students end up never talking to the teacher, teach themselves, and look at the same slides that are cycled through in the in class sessions. In reality it actually saves the school money as no one is in the classroom to waste heat/electricity/paper handouts etc.

As far as the income inequality someone hit on, yes, well off kids with huge support from their parents always tend to have a huge upper hand. However, the lowest on the totem pole kids are not the ones that struggle most with the finance side of things. Those kids get a pile of grants and if they were successful in high school are automatically to the front of the line when it comes to scholarships. To be exact if these low income kids are commuting they usually end up getting thousands of dollars in surplus grant money straight to their bank account. Which no, is not typically used for legitimate needs. Usually they buy stuff unrelated to school or if it is for school it is usually blown on an Apple computer...which is actually a horrendous laptop for college as most universities go through Windows/Microsoft.

Like I have said before the kids in the middle income brackets (specifically upper-middle) are the ones drawing the short end of the stick. No grants, unsubsidized federal loans, offered the minimum amount for federal loans, parents likely don't have the savings for college, and don't have an advantage when it comes to scholarships. If the parents don't provide major help these are the students piling up debt quickly. They are in this awkward position where their families don't have tons of extra cash laying around, but are well off enough that additional assistance is not provided.


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#79

Posted: November 12, 2019, 8:42 AM Post
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Good talk everyone.

I'd say the biggest summary on this specific Boomer vs young people and education topic is that when the boomer says "I did this hard work thing and sacrificed this, worked 2 jobs, etc if you would too you'd be fine" is that very many of the young people are doing those exact same things and still coming out with massive debt.


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#80

Posted: November 12, 2019, 9:01 AM Post
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I'm aware of the online surcharge because I took my MBA entirely online, however at least at UWW it still ends up being an incredible bargain if you need to get an MBA, frankly I paid the surcharge happily in exchange for not leaving my house.

The internship credit cost doesn't make a lick of sense though. The school gets to outsource the cost of your seat in a class to whatever company or org you are doing it through. It isn't shocking when you think about it, just something I never even though of.


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