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COVID-19 Thread

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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 8:06 AM Post
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Fear The Chorizo said:
I live in MN, and had no idea this was still going on - I believe MN has the worst rate of Covid-related deaths in the country among long term care facility residents compared to its total number of deaths (608 of its 748 deaths are from LTCF residents - over 80%).

https://www.startribune.com/minn-nursing-homes-already-site-of-81-of-covid-19-deaths-still-taking-in-infected-patients/570601282/

Given all we know about Covid-19 and who the most vulnerable are to dying from it, why is this not the absolute last option on the table for sending recovering covid patients that were hospitalized by now? Especially since the perceived hospital bed shortage concern that initiated the urgency to discharge manageable recovering cases from hospitals as quickly as possible hasn't come close to materializing anywhere outside of NY/NJ?

Stay at home, bend the curve, slow the spread, protect the elderly and immuno-compromised at all costs, but if you unfortunately get Covid-19 bad enough to go to a hospital but wind up not needing to be intubated, we'll ship you over to a nursing home to negate all the other protective measures society has taken to keep infected people from those facilities. Kids can't go to school or play baseball, families can't go out to dinner, couples can't go watch a movie...many working aged people can't earn income at their business/job all in effort to protect the elderly - but this insane policy still is being followed. Unbelieveable.

Seriously, during these stay at home orders, why weren't countless other places that sat idle engaged about modifying their use to take in recovering patients instead of this policy? I would think hotels situated near hospitals would be ideal locations for temporary use.


What hotel is going to sign up for being the COVID19 infirmary?


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 8:07 AM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
Fear The Chorizo said:
I live in MN, and had no idea this was still going on - I believe MN has the worst rate of Covid-related deaths in the country among long term care facility residents compared to its total number of deaths (608 of its 748 deaths are from LTCF residents - over 80%).

https://www.startribune.com/minn-nursing-homes-already-site-of-81-of-covid-19-deaths-still-taking-in-infected-patients/570601282/

Given all we know about Covid-19 and who the most vulnerable are to dying from it, why is this not the absolute last option on the table for sending recovering covid patients that were hospitalized by now? Especially since the perceived hospital bed shortage concern that initiated the urgency to discharge manageable recovering cases from hospitals as quickly as possible hasn't come close to materializing anywhere outside of NY/NJ?

Stay at home, bend the curve, slow the spread, protect the elderly and immuno-compromised at all costs, but if you unfortunately get Covid-19 bad enough to go to a hospital but wind up not needing to be intubated, we'll ship you over to a nursing home to negate all the other protective measures society has taken to keep infected people from those facilities. Kids can't go to school or play baseball, families can't go out to dinner, couples can't go watch a movie...many working aged people can't earn income at their business/job all in effort to protect the elderly - but this insane policy still is being followed. Unbelieveable.

Seriously, during these stay at home orders, why weren't countless other places that sat idle engaged about modifying their use to take in recovering patients instead of this policy? I would think hotels situated near hospitals would be ideal locations for temporary use.


What hotel is going to sign up for being the COVID19 infirmary?


One that has been essentially empty - take your pick of about 95% of them since mid March. Obviously they wouldn't do it for free, but neither do nursing homes.

Frankly I don't care if it's a hotel or a Chili's - ANYTHING but a nursing home. Why not an empty hospital that wasn't taking in elective procedures this whole time, either? People wonder why Florida wasn't hammered nearly as bad as New York was given the similar populations and proportion of those populations being elderly. The policy difference between those states on how they managed Covid infections and Covid hospital discharges to/from nursing homes is a huge reason, IMO.


Last edited by Fear The Chorizo on May 20, 2020, 8:16 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 8:12 AM Post
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I can see a whole host of reasons why you couldn't use hotels with an elderly population. 95% of the rooms aren't handicap accessible being the major one. Not saying I agree with what they are doing (I assume they have their reasons) but hotels aren't the answer.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 8:15 AM Post
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Fear The Chorizo said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
Fear The Chorizo said:
I live in MN, and had no idea this was still going on - I believe MN has the worst rate of Covid-related deaths in the country among long term care facility residents compared to its total number of deaths (608 of its 748 deaths are from LTCF residents - over 80%).

https://www.startribune.com/minn-nursing-homes-already-site-of-81-of-covid-19-deaths-still-taking-in-infected-patients/570601282/

Given all we know about Covid-19 and who the most vulnerable are to dying from it, why is this not the absolute last option on the table for sending recovering covid patients that were hospitalized by now? Especially since the perceived hospital bed shortage concern that initiated the urgency to discharge manageable recovering cases from hospitals as quickly as possible hasn't come close to materializing anywhere outside of NY/NJ?

Stay at home, bend the curve, slow the spread, protect the elderly and immuno-compromised at all costs, but if you unfortunately get Covid-19 bad enough to go to a hospital but wind up not needing to be intubated, we'll ship you over to a nursing home to negate all the other protective measures society has taken to keep infected people from those facilities. Kids can't go to school or play baseball, families can't go out to dinner, couples can't go watch a movie...many working aged people can't earn income at their business/job all in effort to protect the elderly - but this insane policy still is being followed. Unbelieveable.

Seriously, during these stay at home orders, why weren't countless other places that sat idle engaged about modifying their use to take in recovering patients instead of this policy? I would think hotels situated near hospitals would be ideal locations for temporary use.


What hotel is going to sign up for being the COVID19 infirmary?


One that has been essentially empty - take your pick of about 95% of them since mid March. Obviously they wouldn't do it for free, but neither do nursing homes.


Seems like an exaggeration, but acknowledging that the vacancies are plenty, that's not really something they want to be known for once travel resumes. It's completely irrational from the standpoint of actually getting people sick, but no hotel wants the "We're open for business now, and yes, this is where all the COVID people stayed" stigma.

Hotels are pretty used to having open rooms and less busy times anyway. Much more suited to deal with peaks and valleys than something like a restaurant.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 8:23 AM Post
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homer said:
I can see a whole host of reasons why you couldn't use hotels with an elderly population. 95% of the rooms aren't handicap accessible being the major one. Not saying I agree with what they are doing (I assume they have their reasons) but hotels aren't the answer.


How hard would it be to make a majority of these rooms handicap accessible - particularly 1st floor rooms? IMO that's an less risky set of obstacles to get beyond compared to sending infected people into nursing homes - call me crazy I guess.

The whole stigma of "this is where covid patients stayed"...really? So the Javits Center is just going to have to get bulldozed after this now, too? To me that would be a badge of honor after this passes, knowing full well when things would revert back to normal operation that hotel/conference center/whatever would be sanitized and cleaner than anything else around it.


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 8:25 AM Post
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You'd have to redo every bathroom. And I believe you'd have to rip out all the carpeting and replace it with tile.

Cynical side of me says this is less about hospital beds and more about reimbursement to the provider.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 8:31 AM Post
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Fear The Chorizo said:
homer said:
I can see a whole host of reasons why you couldn't use hotels with an elderly population. 95% of the rooms aren't handicap accessible being the major one. Not saying I agree with what they are doing (I assume they have their reasons) but hotels aren't the answer.


How hard would it be to make a majority of these rooms handicap accessible - particularly 1st floor rooms? IMO that's an less risky set of obstacles to get beyond compared to sending infected people into nursing homes - call me crazy I guess.

The whole stigma of "this is where covid patients stayed"...really? So the Javits Center is just going to have to get bulldozed after this now, too? To me that would be a badge of honor after this passes, knowing full well when things would revert back to normal operation that hotel/conference center/whatever would be sanitized and cleaner than anything else around it.


Yes really. It doesn't have to make any sense for it to be a factor. No one wants to walk into that first without knowing the result. If you are a large corp sending 50 reps at a time to a hotel, and Holiday Inn hosted COVID patients 2 weeks ago you will just call Hyatt instead.

As for outfitting a bunch of rooms with ADA tubs and the like, all of it takes money and time, and the ADA room have different square footage requirements as well.


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 8:34 AM Post
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Georgia is a mess:

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/co ... 31786.html

"Georgia has performed more than 378,000 coronavirus tests since the beginning of the pandemic, and the state health department reported more than 50,000 new tests over the weekend — the highest two-day total since the state’s first cases were confirmed.

Nearly 800 tested positive for the novel coronavirus.

But some of these tests aren’t meant to find those currently sick, a practice that public health experts say artificially raises Georgia’s testing totals and artificially lowers the state’s percentage of positive tests."

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 8:40 AM Post
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homer said:
You'd have to redo every bathroom. And I believe you'd have to rip out all the carpeting and replace it with tile.


So is this to comply with hotel regulations that make them officially "handicap accessible"? There's no way on earth for nursing staff that would be brought into these facilities to make due with what's available in a pinch - particularly with recovering patients who don't normally require all the handicap accessibility nursing homes have to provide?? If some of these recovering patients in a hospital are handicapped and require 100% of what a nursing home can provide in terms of care and facilities under normal circumstances, why not keep them in the hospital until they are fully recovered?

I saw the edit to your post related to this being driven by reimbursement rates to the provider...IMO that is 100% correct, unfortunately


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 8:53 AM Post
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It doesn't have to make any sense for it to be a factor. No one wants to walk into that first without knowing the result. If you are a large corp sending 50 reps at a time to a hotel, and Holiday Inn hosted COVID patients 2 weeks ago you will just call Hyatt instead.

Give me one example in this environment where any business is sending 50 people to stay anywhere right now...that's a pretty large strawman. And way more than 2 weeks time would elapse in this sort of hypothetical scenario before a hotel, conference center, anywhere would be allowed to resume operations - and they would rightfully be compensated for that delay. I just think that perception, real as it likely is, shouldn't be a factor when weighing the best option for how to protect the most vulnerable group of people from getting this virus - it's not like everything else done to society hasn't drastically inconvenienced everyone or led to all sorts of other stigmas out there, too.


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 8:55 AM Post
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This is scary if true.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/20 ... ails-show/

"One day before a top Florida Department of Health data manager lost her role maintaining the state’s COVID-19 data, she objected to the removal of records showing people had symptoms or positive tests before the cases were announced, according to internal emails obtained by the Tampa Bay Times."

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 9:18 AM Post
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Fear The Chorizo said:
It doesn't have to make any sense for it to be a factor. No one wants to walk into that first without knowing the result. If you are a large corp sending 50 reps at a time to a hotel, and Holiday Inn hosted COVID patients 2 weeks ago you will just call Hyatt instead.

Give me one example in this environment where any business is sending 50 people to stay anywhere right now...that's a pretty large strawman. And way more than 2 weeks time would elapse in this sort of hypothetical scenario before a hotel, conference center, anywhere would be allowed to resume operations - and they would rightfully be compensated for that delay. I just think that perception, real as it likely is, shouldn't be a factor when weighing the best option for how to protect the most vulnerable group of people from getting this virus - it's not like everything else done to society hasn't drastically inconvenienced everyone or led to all sorts of other stigmas out there, too.


They're not, and it wasn't a "straw man." I was saying that once travel resumes, and you're the travel coordinator for large company, you'll just opt to avoid that and send your guys some place else.

I'm simply telling you the reality of the situation, that there is no incentive for corporate clients to book their people at these places when things open up. As for personal travel, I personally wouldn't care, but I have more than a handful of acquaintances who would do the same thing. Pick one of the other 5 chains that wasn't hosting sick people. I mean, why not? There is no reason to go there if you have options.

But you can see the issue with the hotel idea. So now they have to be compensated for hosting patients, the period of time between hosting patients and regular people, the effect of which will be extremely difficult to quantify.

It's simply a headache there is no reason to sign up for.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 9:35 AM Post
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homer said:
Georgia is a mess:

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/co ... 31786.html

"Georgia has performed more than 378,000 coronavirus tests since the beginning of the pandemic, and the state health department reported more than 50,000 new tests over the weekend — the highest two-day total since the state’s first cases were confirmed.

Nearly 800 tested positive for the novel coronavirus.

But some of these tests aren’t meant to find those currently sick, a practice that public health experts say artificially raises Georgia’s testing totals and artificially lowers the state’s percentage of positive tests."


It really is.

They 'opened up', but just canceled an upcoming election. What message are we sending here?


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 11:26 AM Post
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Hotels, at least, have a roof. Better than the leper colonies 2000 years ago. [wink]


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 12:25 PM Post
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homer said:
Georgia is a mess:

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/co ... 31786.html

"Georgia has performed more than 378,000 coronavirus tests since the beginning of the pandemic, and the state health department reported more than 50,000 new tests over the weekend — the highest two-day total since the state’s first cases were confirmed.

Nearly 800 tested positive for the novel coronavirus.

But some of these tests aren’t meant to find those currently sick, a practice that public health experts say artificially raises Georgia’s testing totals and artificially lowers the state’s percentage of positive tests."


A lot of states are doing this. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ia/611620/

Whether or not it's a bad practice depends on what one is trying to understand from the data.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 12:38 PM Post
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Machu Peach said:
homer said:
Georgia is a mess:

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/co ... 31786.html

"Georgia has performed more than 378,000 coronavirus tests since the beginning of the pandemic, and the state health department reported more than 50,000 new tests over the weekend — the highest two-day total since the state’s first cases were confirmed.

Nearly 800 tested positive for the novel coronavirus.

But some of these tests aren’t meant to find those currently sick, a practice that public health experts say artificially raises Georgia’s testing totals and artificially lowers the state’s percentage of positive tests."


A lot of states are doing this. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ia/611620/

Whether or not it's a bad practice depends on what one is trying to understand from the data.


Testing more isn't bad.

Testing more and then saying "Look, less people are testing positive by percentage!" is using data to convey an inappropriate and untruthful message.

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

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Posted: May 20, 2020, 12:43 PM Post
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Machu Peach said:
homer said:
Georgia is a mess:

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/co ... 31786.html

"Georgia has performed more than 378,000 coronavirus tests since the beginning of the pandemic, and the state health department reported more than 50,000 new tests over the weekend — the highest two-day total since the state’s first cases were confirmed.

Nearly 800 tested positive for the novel coronavirus.

But some of these tests aren’t meant to find those currently sick, a practice that public health experts say artificially raises Georgia’s testing totals and artificially lowers the state’s percentage of positive tests."


A lot of states are doing this. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ia/611620/

Whether or not it's a bad practice depends on what one is trying to understand from the data.


Per that article and the one from Georgia, it looks like two states are doing it.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 12:54 PM Post
Posts: 12
homer said:
Machu Peach said:
homer said:
Georgia is a mess:

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/co ... 31786.html

"Georgia has performed more than 378,000 coronavirus tests since the beginning of the pandemic, and the state health department reported more than 50,000 new tests over the weekend — the highest two-day total since the state’s first cases were confirmed.

Nearly 800 tested positive for the novel coronavirus.

But some of these tests aren’t meant to find those currently sick, a practice that public health experts say artificially raises Georgia’s testing totals and artificially lowers the state’s percentage of positive tests."


A lot of states are doing this. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ia/611620/

Whether or not it's a bad practice depends on what one is trying to understand from the data.


Per that article and the one from Georgia, it looks like two states are doing it.


"Other differences make it hard to track the pandemic. In at least three other states, officials have lumped together probable and confirmed COVID-19 deaths; most don’t specify how they’re counting deaths. While most states report the number of people who have been tested for the coronavirus, six states say they track the number of samples that have been tested—and California and New Jersey switched methods in the past few weeks."

"Other states report positive serological tests as “probable” COVID-19 cases."

"At least 16 U.S. states and two territories have reported such “probable” cases, although they may not always have done so using serological tests, according to the CDC."

It's unclear what exactly most states are doing, but it is very clear that there are major differences in how things are being counted. I personally don't think it's nefarious. There are multiple correct ways to compile data depending on what one wants to look at.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: May 20, 2020, 2:21 PM Post
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turborickey said:
My wife and I just got tested. Appleton has a drive through testing site that anyone can use. I went Wednesday, it was a 2.5 to 3 hour wait, so I left. we went today, it was 15 minutes total and we were on our way. Very easy.

You don't have to have symptoms, or known contact to get tested. If you want to be tested, you just drive on up.

The only reason we did it was because I had a pounding headache on Sunday, then Monday and Tuesday, my head felt pretty spaced out, hard to focus, etc. Same thing happened to me a couple years ago, so I'm not convinced it is corona in any way. My wife came down with cold symptoms on Wednesday, so she went too. My wife convinced me that we should go, I wouldn't have done it if she wasn't so adamant.

My only exposure to anyone the past 3 weeks was one trip to school, the building was empty. (that was Thursday, May 7th)Talked to a couple cleaning ladies for a minute or so, did the social distancing thing, talked to my principal for 20 minutes, same thing, social distancing. If I got it, I believe it was from the damn McDonalds drive-thru that same day. We have not been getting take out as I am not convinced in any manner that that isn't the perfect way to get it. Anyone working in those places could have it and spread it to countless people. My wife grocery shopped on Tuesday at Aldis. Wore a mask, took all measures humanly possible to not interact or be in anyone's space.

It will be interesting to see our results. We have done a super job of being away from all others, so much so that we have been told we are being maybe a little too paranoid. If we got it, then it must be really easy to get, unless I was doomed as soon as I decided to go against all common sense and visit that damn McDonalds drive-thru. I have a couple of friends who get take-out 4 or 5 times a week to support their local business. It would just figure that the one time I do it, it bites me in the behind.


So here is my update, with results...

My wife and I both tested negative for the virus.

This means that I more than likely had an old fashioned migraine headache, followed by a couple of days of issues based on that.

My wife must have picked up either a cold when she went grocery shopping (her only trip outside the house in the 2 weeks before her symptoms) or possibly allergies, which she doesn't normally experience.

Part of me wished we had tested positive to get it over with, assuming you can only get it once, but I don't believe that is going to be the case when all is said and done.

So that's my story, with a boring ending...

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Posted: May 20, 2020, 5:14 PM Post
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Machu Peach said:

"Other differences make it hard to track the pandemic. In at least three other states, officials have lumped together probable and confirmed COVID-19 deaths; most don’t specify how they’re counting deaths. While most states report the number of people who have been tested for the coronavirus, six states say they track the number of samples that have been tested—and California and New Jersey switched methods in the past few weeks."

"Other states report positive serological tests as “probable” COVID-19 cases."

"At least 16 U.S. states and two territories have reported such “probable” cases, although they may not always have done so using serological tests, according to the CDC."

It's unclear what exactly most states are doing, but it is very clear that there are major differences in how things are being counted. I personally don't think it's nefarious. There are multiple correct ways to compile data depending on what one wants to look at.


I was referring specifically to the mixing of antibody and viral tests. I know most states are slicing and dicing data. Georgia has had a series of issues with its data reporting beyond this example which was the genesis of my post.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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