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COVID-19 Thread

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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 7:06 AM Post
Posts: 20376
My dad is a boomer and he takes this as seriously as anyone. He gets all his groceries delivered. He leaves the house only once a day to take a mile and a half walk to my house, knocks on my door, stays outside on my lawn about 10 feet away and we chat outside for a half hour or so.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 7:09 AM Post
Posts: 57
thebruce44 said:
NeedMoreFans said:
So as I am scanning the sky I notice to my west 4 stars in a straight line. Thinking that is strange I stared at it for a while and I realized the stars were moving. Not stars, but planes. I followed the line and counted 7 planes in all. Then there was 9 more. I went inside for a while and got curious so about 5-10 minutes later I went back out and saw 7 more. So that was 23 planes that I saw, and who knows how many before or after I quit watching, all on the exact same flight path, spaced about a minute apart.


I saw the same thing! They were probably satellites all in the same orbit.


Could it be SpaceX StarLink?


Having done a little research and watched a couple of youtube videos, I think it is very likely this is what I saw. Thanks.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 7:30 AM Post
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RoCoBrewfan said:


People are gonna die. It sucks. But having everyone go to the hospital at the same time, whether some people want to believe the things they are told are true or not, would be a massive, major, crippling problem. People that need health care or ER services for non-coronavirus related injuries and illnesses COULD die because care or service is delayed or not available.


This is something that does not get addressed enough by those claiming this virus is not that big of a deal. I have seen far too many people I personally know claim COVID-19 is just a "bad cold" or on par with normal flu. The effects of this outbreak go much farther than just X amount of people get it, X% will die, XXX are at risk and XX are not. Any numbers we get out of this (flawed or not) are going to be taken in a vacuum and only considering COVID. The strain on the hospital system is a very real danger not just for COVID, but for any other issues a person has to head to the hospital to receive treatment. This is bad because it may force an issue where certain people will not be able to receive treatment for this or other medical issues. Without treatment, that increases the risk and likelihood of severe outcomes for all issues. We only have a finite amount of doctors, nurses, beds, etc. This is something to consider when evaluating the regional differences in cases. The amount of beds and advanced care capability that is available in Chicago is different than Milwaukee or Cheyenne, WY. Keeping this isolated is the best defense for everyone and not just from a COVID 19 aspect.


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 7:37 AM Post
Posts: 20376
madbad2000 said:
RoCoBrewfan said:


People are gonna die. It sucks. But having everyone go to the hospital at the same time, whether some people want to believe the things they are told are true or not, would be a massive, major, crippling problem. People that need health care or ER services for non-coronavirus related injuries and illnesses COULD die because care or service is delayed or not available.


This is something that does not get addressed enough by those claiming this virus is not that big of a deal. I have seen far too many people I personally know claim COVID-19 is just a "bad cold" or on par with normal flu. The effects of this outbreak go much farther than just X amount of people get it, X% will die, XXX are at risk and XX are not. Any numbers we get out of this (flawed or not) are going to be taken in a vacuum and only considering COVID. The strain on the hospital system is a very real danger not just for COVID, but for any other issues a person has to head to the hospital to receive treatment. This is bad because it may force an issue where certain people will not be able to receive treatment for this or other medical issues. Without treatment, that increases the risk and likelihood of severe outcomes for all issues. We only have a finite amount of doctors, nurses, beds, etc. This is something to consider when evaluating the regional differences in cases. The amount of beds and advanced care capability that is available in Chicago is different than Milwaukee or Cheyenne, WY. Keeping this isolated is the best defense for everyone and not just from a COVID 19 aspect.


Just to play devil's advocate here, but couldn't it be argued that the over the top fear mongering is exasperating this problem? People that have symptoms that they would normally shrug off over some fluids and Tylonel now think, "Hey, maybe I have coronavirus, I better get checked out now!"


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 8:15 AM Post
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adambr2 said:
Just to play devil's advocate here, but couldn't it be argued that the over the top fear mongering is exasperating this problem? People that have symptoms that they would normally shrug off over some fluids and Tylonel now think, "Hey, maybe I have coronavirus, I better get checked out now!"


You can argue that and it is a proper question to ask. I would argue the use of the term "over the top" and "fear mongering" is a bit biased in this situation, but that is my personal stance. That's where the screening process helps out and the medical professionals can make that "simple" diagnosis, test if warranted and then send them on their way. Coupled with an isolation/quarantine regime should help stop further spread even if you will test positive with mild or asymptomatic response. I was talking more about the severe cases that tie down the full resources of a hospital such as requiring a bed and advanced care such as ventilators and other materials. As a population we know that we can help stop the spread of this thing by isolation. This means that whatever percentages we are dealing with (% infected, serious reaction or mortality rates) will create smaller numbers of cases required to take up these precious resources. Even a small tick upward from our current posture would be bad news for many regions of the country on their medical resources.


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 9:13 AM Post
Posts: 20376
Sweden has pretty much gone against the grain and enacted a "business as usual" approach in their country with little consequence so far.

http://dlvr.it/RSVnRN

I know Sweden isn't comparable to a country like Italy in terms of population density but they are about twice as dense as their neighboring Norway and Finland who have much more stringent social measures.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 9:16 AM Post
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adambr2 said:
Sweden has pretty much gone against the grain and enacted a "business as usual" approach in their country with little consequence so far.

http://dlvr.it/RSVnRN

I know Sweden isn't comparable to a country like Italy in terms of population density but they are about twice as dense as their neighboring Norway and Finland who have much more stringent social measures.


I dunno. Doesn't really sound like they are business as usual after reading that. They have plenty of measures in place. We are fully able to travel within the US right? And what does "some table service" mean? And Sweden's death rate is higher than neighboring Norway so to say they have had little consequence is really underselling it.

"Like other European countries, Sweden has banned gatherings, but only gatherings of 500 or more — as opposed to the more drastic directives, like in Germany, which is now banning “gatherings” of more than just two. Sweden’s government is also advising that universities and secondary schools shift to fully online classes, but is so far keeping primary schools open, though lawmakers have fast-tracked a bill allowing closures, if deemed necessary.

Also remaining open are restaurants and bars, which other governments, including those of many U.S. states, have fully shut down except for take-out orders. Sweden, on the other hand, still allows some table service.

Like other European countries, travel across Sweden’s border is barred except for essential travel, but travel within the country is fully open, the government merely advising residents to avoid non-essential holiday trips."

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 9:59 AM Post
Posts: 2064
Location: Madison, WI
Italy now has 69,176 confirmed cases. Italy's population is 60,485,153. 0.11% infected.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 10:05 AM Post
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The Swedes are arguably the most isolated culture on Earth. People do not exchange pleasantries, you don't talk to strangers, lots of young people live by themselves. Hugging and handshakes and the like are not even a thing. If you ever get a chance to go there you will realize firsthand it's very real and not a cliche.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 10:14 AM Post
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JosephC said:
Italy now has 69,176 confirmed cases. Italy's population is 60,485,153. 0.11% infected.


And they about 100 cases a month ago. Hence the toll on their healthcare system...everyone got sick at the same time.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 10:16 AM Post
Posts: 2064
Location: Madison, WI
brwrsfan said:
We have 457 people with confirmed positive tests, with what...less than 10 deaths right? How exactly are we going to get to ONE THOUSAND deaths in the next two weeks? Using those numbers, the amount of positive tests would have to multiple by FIFTY with the current death rate to reach 1000 deaths in two weeks. I'm sorry but I find that to be very difficult to believe.



We shalt be saved!

Direct from Safer at Home order.

4. Closures. All of the following facilities shall be closed:
a. Public and private K-12 schools and public libraries. Except for facilitating distance learning or virtual learning, public and private K-12 schools are closed for pupil instruction and extracurricular activities. Libraries shall close for all in-person services, but may continue to provide on-line services and programming. Schools and public libraries may be used for Essential Government Functions and food distribution. This
section does not apply to facilities operated by the Wisconsin Department of Corrections or the Department of Military Affairs including the Challenge Academy.
b. Places of public amusement and activity. Whether indoors or outdoors, including but not limited to amusement parks, carnivals, water parks, licensed public or private swimming pools, splash pads, aquariums, zoos, museums, arcades, fairs, children's play centers, playgrounds, funplexes, theme parks, bowling alleys, movie and other theaters, concert and music halls, country clubs, social clubs, and gyms and fitness centers.
c. Salons and spas. This includes, but is not limited to, hair salons, barber shops, nail salons, day spas, electrolysis providers, waxing salons, eyebrow-care establishments, tattoo parlors, body art establishments, and tanning facilities.

Everybody else, go to work, go to the grocery store, go to the hardware store, go to the auto care shop, go to the laudromat, go to the bank, and make the trip down to Illinois to buy your dope because that is essential although it may not be legal. I have it on good authority that you are much more likely to catch this bug on a golf course than you would a laundromat. Trust me.

One question, is there a difference between a tattoo parlor and a body art establishment? Regardless, I'm really glad they listed both for those of us who are unsure.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 10:18 AM Post
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homer said:
JosephC said:
Italy now has 69,176 confirmed cases. Italy's population is 60,485,153. 0.11% infected.


And they about 100 cases a month ago. Hence the toll on their healthcare system...everyone got sick at the same time.


The infection rate on this thing is never going to be a huge help. The trend in the numbers might help tell us when we can expect things to curb but how many of the confirmed cases in Italy were infected by 16 year old relatives and the like that never got very sick? Those people will never be counted. There will be people all over the world who infected the vulnerable never having known they had it.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 10:21 AM Post
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JosephC said:
brwrsfan said:
We have 457 people with confirmed positive tests, with what...less than 10 deaths right? How exactly are we going to get to ONE THOUSAND deaths in the next two weeks? Using those numbers, the amount of positive tests would have to multiple by FIFTY with the current death rate to reach 1000 deaths in two weeks. I'm sorry but I find that to be very difficult to believe.



We shalt be saved!

Direct from Safer at Home order.

4. Closures. All of the following facilities shall be closed:
a. Public and private K-12 schools and public libraries. Except for facilitating distance learning or virtual learning, public and private K-12 schools are closed for pupil instruction and extracurricular activities. Libraries shall close for all in-person services, but may continue to provide on-line services and programming. Schools and public libraries may be used for Essential Government Functions and food distribution. This
section does not apply to facilities operated by the Wisconsin Department of Corrections or the Department of Military Affairs including the Challenge Academy.
b. Places of public amusement and activity. Whether indoors or outdoors, including but not limited to amusement parks, carnivals, water parks, licensed public or private swimming pools, splash pads, aquariums, zoos, museums, arcades, fairs, children's play centers, playgrounds, funplexes, theme parks, bowling alleys, movie and other theaters, concert and music halls, country clubs, social clubs, and gyms and fitness centers.
c. Salons and spas. This includes, but is not limited to, hair salons, barber shops, nail salons, day spas, electrolysis providers, waxing salons, eyebrow-care establishments, tattoo parlors, body art establishments, and tanning facilities.

Everybody else, go to work, go to the grocery store, go to the hardware store, go to the auto care shop, go to the laudromat, go to the bank, and make the trip down to Illinois to buy your dope because that is essential although it may not be legal. I have it on good authority that you are much more likely to catch this bug on a golf course than you would a laundromat. Trust me.

One question, is there a difference between a tattoo parlor and a body art establishment? Regardless, I'm really glad they listed both for those of us who are unsure.


I believe that "body art establishments" are places that typically specialize in piercings.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 10:21 AM Post
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JosephC said:
brwrsfan said:
We have 457 people with confirmed positive tests, with what...less than 10 deaths right? How exactly are we going to get to ONE THOUSAND deaths in the next two weeks? Using those numbers, the amount of positive tests would have to multiple by FIFTY with the current death rate to reach 1000 deaths in two weeks. I'm sorry but I find that to be very difficult to believe.



We shalt be saved!

Direct from Safer at Home order.

4. Closures. All of the following facilities shall be closed:
a. Public and private K-12 schools and public libraries. Except for facilitating distance learning or virtual learning, public and private K-12 schools are closed for pupil instruction and extracurricular activities. Libraries shall close for all in-person services, but may continue to provide on-line services and programming. Schools and public libraries may be used for Essential Government Functions and food distribution. This
section does not apply to facilities operated by the Wisconsin Department of Corrections or the Department of Military Affairs including the Challenge Academy.
b. Places of public amusement and activity. Whether indoors or outdoors, including but not limited to amusement parks, carnivals, water parks, licensed public or private swimming pools, splash pads, aquariums, zoos, museums, arcades, fairs, children's play centers, playgrounds, funplexes, theme parks, bowling alleys, movie and other theaters, concert and music halls, country clubs, social clubs, and gyms and fitness centers.
c. Salons and spas. This includes, but is not limited to, hair salons, barber shops, nail salons, day spas, electrolysis providers, waxing salons, eyebrow-care establishments, tattoo parlors, body art establishments, and tanning facilities.

Everybody else, go to work, go to the grocery store, go to the hardware store, go to the auto care shop, go to the laudromat, go to the bank, and make the trip down to Illinois to buy your dope because that is essential although it may not be legal. I have it on good authority that you are much more likely to catch this bug on a golf course than you would a laundromat. Trust me.

One question, is there a difference between a tattoo parlor and a body art establishment? Regardless, I'm really glad they listed both for those of us who are unsure.


There are two sides to this. I am complying but have to admit it's not causing a great amount of distress to my family. If your household income dropped to 0 overnight it's not as easy to sit back and ride out the storm. People earning low hourly wages who are one check away from the street, I'm not going to judge them for feeling like they have to do something. It's a terrible situation. Many of the exemptions you list have been proactive in closing anyway. We need some daycares to stay open.


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 10:25 AM Post
Posts: 2064
Location: Madison, WI
Ron Robinson's Beard said:
JosephC said:
brwrsfan said:
We have 457 people with confirmed positive tests, with what...less than 10 deaths right? How exactly are we going to get to ONE THOUSAND deaths in the next two weeks? Using those numbers, the amount of positive tests would have to multiple by FIFTY with the current death rate to reach 1000 deaths in two weeks. I'm sorry but I find that to be very difficult to believe.



We shalt be saved!

Direct from Safer at Home order.

4. Closures. All of the following facilities shall be closed:
a. Public and private K-12 schools and public libraries. Except for facilitating distance learning or virtual learning, public and private K-12 schools are closed for pupil instruction and extracurricular activities. Libraries shall close for all in-person services, but may continue to provide on-line services and programming. Schools and public libraries may be used for Essential Government Functions and food distribution. This
section does not apply to facilities operated by the Wisconsin Department of Corrections or the Department of Military Affairs including the Challenge Academy.
b. Places of public amusement and activity. Whether indoors or outdoors, including but not limited to amusement parks, carnivals, water parks, licensed public or private swimming pools, splash pads, aquariums, zoos, museums, arcades, fairs, children's play centers, playgrounds, funplexes, theme parks, bowling alleys, movie and other theaters, concert and music halls, country clubs, social clubs, and gyms and fitness centers.
c. Salons and spas. This includes, but is not limited to, hair salons, barber shops, nail salons, day spas, electrolysis providers, waxing salons, eyebrow-care establishments, tattoo parlors, body art establishments, and tanning facilities.

Everybody else, go to work, go to the grocery store, go to the hardware store, go to the auto care shop, go to the laudromat, go to the bank, and make the trip down to Illinois to buy your dope because that is essential although it may not be legal. I have it on good authority that you are much more likely to catch this bug on a golf course than you would a laundromat. Trust me.

One question, is there a difference between a tattoo parlor and a body art establishment? Regardless, I'm really glad they listed both for those of us who are unsure.


I believe that "body art establishments" are places that typically specialize in piercings.


Yes, but I was under the impression that tattoos are body art, so wouldn't a tattoo parlor be classified as a body art establishment?


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 10:29 AM Post
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
The last I looked the death numbers per 100k people for the US is the same as South Korea at .2.

Italy was at 9.4, Spain at 4.9, Iran 2.2, Switzerland 1.4, France 1.3, Netherlands 1.2, UK .5, South Korea .2, US .2 and Germany .1.

Deaths per 100k population is a better read on the situation than the total number infected. The US is doing fine right now if the death rate increases to something closer to Iran then I am going to be more concerned with this.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 10:41 AM Post
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Again, the mortality rate is important but there are plenty of people going to the hospital with this that don't die. They are taking up beds/resources from people that also need them (oftentimes for things other than Covid 19) and those people very well could die. Not to mention infecting the caretakers at the hospitals who maybe can't work because they are home sick.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 10:44 AM Post
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That's kind of like watching a pitcher load the bases and saying, well, nobody's scored yet, I think we're doing just fine. There was a time that Spain might have said the same thing...hey, we aren't nearly as bad off as Italy or Iran. The exponential growth function is a bugger that way. The measures that have been taken might be enough to keep this mild, but it's too early to assume that.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 11:00 AM Post
Posts: 8
homer said:
Again, the mortality rate is important but there are plenty of people going to the hospital with this that don't die. They are taking up beds/resources from people that also need them (oftentimes for things other than Covid 19) and those people very well could die. Not to mention infecting the caretakers at the hospitals who maybe can't work because they are home sick.


While flattening the curve is truly important, not many admit the US is better prepared for this than most other countries. Here is a quote from an economist I follow.

"Meanwhile, a 2013 study by the Department of Health and Human Services determined that the US has the most Intensive Care Unit beds per capita of any country at 20-32 per 100,000 people. This is far higher than China where there are only 2.8-4.6, demonstrating why they needed to build hospitals overnight. Likewise, the US far outdoes countries with socialized medical systems like Canada (13.5), Sweden (5.8-8.7), or the UK (3.5-7.4). This means the US is better suited to deal with the healthcare capacity issues that could arise with a Pandemic than virtually any other country in the world."


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread
Posted: March 25, 2020, 11:19 AM Post
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nodakfan17 said:
I have a theory on why Millennials & GenXers are taking this more seriously than other generations:

We’re all terrified of a major recession because we’re in (or near) our peak earning years and another economic disruption could permanently throw off our career earnings trajectory. I graduated in the middle of the last recession and it took me 3-4 years to get the type of position/salary that a 2019 grad could have gotten last Spring. Now at age 35, I have what most people would consider a pretty good job and I’m nervous about being forced to start over (but this time with a kid and a mortgage).

From what generation did all of the kids go on spring break this year? I know it is a relative sample size, but people in their late teens / early to mid 20's don't seem to take this as serious as older folks.


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