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COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]

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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 08, 2021, 10:01 AM Post
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AKCheesehead said:
And the hell of it is, the reason I wasn't willing to go is because I was afraid I might pick it up on a plane or in an airport and get my parents sick with it.


You very likely would have contracted it at your parents' house, then got on the plane to go home. Then who knows?

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 08, 2021, 11:07 AM Post
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Likely I would have gotten it, and I'd still be there waiting until 14 days were up and I was symptom free before I could travel back here. I don't think I'd have been on a plane with it because when I do visit for the holidays I generally leave to come back on NYE. I'd have known about it and cancelled flights by then. Of course that's all assuming it would have affected me the same as them and not hit me like a ton of bricks instead.

I'm so glad I had enough sense not to go. I'm sure in retrospect my family wishes they'd have not gotten together.

I'm very concerned about the folks in my area right now. Many of them are Russian Orthodox, which I don't really have much of an understanding of, but it's the beginning of the week of Slaaviq holiday for them. Typically that means all week long several different families host a feast each night and people go from house to house, lots of singing and it goes on all night. If they don't just completely scrap it this year it's going to be an absolute nightmare.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 08, 2021, 8:26 PM Post
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Masks are still only meant to lower the virus load. Being in a house multiple days with people, masks really aren't going to do much. Limited airflow over numerous days... you are better off just assuming you need to quarantine at that point.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 09, 2021, 3:49 AM Post
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AKCheesehead said:
I do know that there's really not a safe way to get together.


That is kind of what it boils down to. Masks and distancing are so we can get out and do some normal things. Any gathering of people for an extend amount of time is a roll of the dice hoping no one is there to pass it on.

Fan is short for fanatic.
I blame Wang.


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 09, 2021, 8:41 AM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
logan82 said:
AKCheesehead said:
I do know that there's really not a safe way to get together.


That is kind of what it boils down to. Masks and distancing are so we can get out and do some normal things. Any gathering of people for an extend amount of time is a roll of the dice hoping no one is there to pass it on.


That's right. You guys just remember that piling into a house with all your relatives for a celebration is near insane risk that very well could have catastrophic results. However, if you pile into a workplace with a whole bunch of other people (from literally hundreds of different households if the workplace if big enough) then there is no risk because you are generating revenue to pay for some jerk's million dollar salary AND generating tax dollars for your elected leaders.

At least that's what the science says!


Last edited by JosephC on January 09, 2021, 9:03 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 09, 2021, 8:57 AM Post
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JosephC said:

At least that's what the science says!


I’m assuming you have links to show that anyone is actually saying this?


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 09, 2021, 9:32 AM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
PeaveyFury said:
JosephC said:

At least that's what the science says!


I’m assuming you have links to show that anyone is actually saying this?


What? I need a link to show that pretty much every government official, elected or appointed bureaucrat, is saying that getting together for a family gathering is a really bad idea. But on the other hand, there isn't one peep from them saying that piling into a workplace, with 100 people from 100 different households, could be a significant risk? I really need a link for that? Last night on the way home from work I drove past one of the local steakhouses and the parking lot was jammed packed. So if I get together with 15 relatives from 5 different households for a Christmas dinner, that is a completely unnecessary risk, but the 100 people from 50 different households that were in the steakhouse last night does not present an unnecessary public risk?

Best part is that the people who make up all these rules are the first people to ignore their own rules.

Now shut up and get back to work, we need that tax revenue and you need to generate that revenue to line the pockets of the fat cats!


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 09, 2021, 12:01 PM Post
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I sense much fear in you from the business world. Fear becomes hate. Hate leads to the dark side.

I can't speak for every business place, but my workplace sent as many to work from home as possible (I've been in the office ~6-8 times since April), mandated masks, cleaning your desk daily, temperature checks, self-health assessments, social distancing (including workstations in the factory and cubical offices), increasing HVAC airflow, removing most of the tables from the cafeteria (we are encouraged to eat at our desks if possible), and mandating masks (including giving us reusable and disposable masks to use).

That is a huge difference from what you will find from eating at someone's house.

Yes, companies certainly want to stay in business. Big ones, small ones, and medium ones... Sorry to say, but I sure enjoy having a paycheck coming every two weeks too. Kind of unrealistic to think everything just stops.


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 09, 2021, 1:03 PM Post
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JosephC said:
PeaveyFury said:
JosephC said:

At least that's what the science says!


I’m assuming you have links to show that anyone is actually saying this?


What? I need a link to show that pretty much every government official, elected or appointed bureaucrat, is saying that getting together for a family gathering is a really bad idea. But on the other hand, there isn't one peep from them saying that piling into a workplace, with 100 people from 100 different households, could be a significant risk? I really need a link for that? Last night on the way home from work I drove past one of the local steakhouses and the parking lot was jammed packed. So if I get together with 15 relatives from 5 different households for a Christmas dinner, that is a completely unnecessary risk, but the 100 people from 50 different households that were in the steakhouse last night does not present an unnecessary public risk?

Best part is that the people who make up all these rules are the first people to ignore their own rules.


Clearly, you were asked for a link for the very sentence that was quoted along with my asking for one. Is anyone claiming that workplaces are safer than family gatherings? Is there any science suggesting such? You added the 'sarcasm' indicator in your subsequent edit, for the record.

Cheezwiz is right. Many employers HAVE taken significant steps to implement safety procedures. As of literally today, I haven't worked from my company's office for 10 months. That wasn't a personal choice either, they sent basically everyone home.

Regarding your steakhouse, I believe you've noted that you live in Wisconsin previously. You and I both know why there's been conflicting stances on restaurants and bars in the state. Throughout all of this, there have sadly been 'sides' that prioritize different things in different cases, and very little common ground has been found along the way.

It is again worth noting, however, that restaurants and bars HAVE had restrictions on capacity, spacing, etc. on them basically since day one of the initial lock down and subsequent reopening.


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 09, 2021, 1:09 PM Post
Posts: 2397
Location: Madison, WI
CheezWizHed said:
I sense much fear in you from the business world. Fear becomes hate. Hate leads to the dark side.

I can't speak for every business place, but my workplace sent as many to work from home as possible (I've been in the office ~6-8 times since April), mandated masks, cleaning your desk daily, temperature checks, self-health assessments, social distancing (including workstations in the factory and cubical offices), increasing HVAC airflow, removing most of the tables from the cafeteria (we are encouraged to eat at our desks if possible), and mandating masks (including giving us reusable and disposable masks to use).

That is a huge difference from what you will find from eating at someone's house.

Yes, companies certainly want to stay in business. Big ones, small ones, and medium ones... Sorry to say, but I sure enjoy having a paycheck coming every two weeks too. Kind of unrealistic to think everything just stops.


And if working for just a medium sized business....there is a pretty good chance the average person goes to into a workplace 240 times during the year and risks spreading the virus in an environment where there are people from 50 different households present. That is opposed to a few family gatherings a year, where a person goes into a home 3-5 times a year and risks spreading the virus in an environment where there are maybe people from 5 or 6 different households present. That's a big difference when considering what the government says you shouldn't do and what behavior is considered perfectly fine.


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 09, 2021, 1:13 PM Post
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JosephC said:
And if working for just a medium sized business....there is a pretty good chance the average person goes to into a workplace 240 times during the year and risks spreading the virus in an environment where there are people from 50 different households present. That is opposed to a few family gatherings a year, where a person goes into a home 3-5 times a year and risks spreading the virus in an environment where there are maybe people from 5 or 6 different households present. That's a big difference when considering what the government says you shouldn't do and what behavior is considered perfectly fine.


So just to be perfectly clear, you're stating that you think there should be a full-scale hard lock down implemented by the government?

I think the point that you missed from Cheezwiz's post was that precautions are taken in a workplace that likely fall short on a family holiday. Food/drinking without masks, hugging/kissing, shared utensils, closer contact indoors due to space restrictions, etc. Perhaps you have a different workspace/environment than I, but none of these items are problematic in our space, and they've STILL sent us all home.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 09, 2021, 2:54 PM Post
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AKCheesehead said:

I'm very concerned about the folks in my area right now. Many of them are Russian Orthodox, which I don't really have much of an understanding of, but it's the beginning of the week of Slaaviq holiday for them. Typically that means all week long several different families host a feast each night and people go from house to house, lots of singing and it goes on all night. If they don't just completely scrap it this year it's going to be an absolute nightmare.


Quoting myself here to give this update context. Late last night walking the dog before bed I saw quite a few pedestrians walking with little plastic bags. (they always give little bags of treats, candies, etc at Slaaviq gatherings) We already have a very high rate here right now. If people are Slaaviqing this year as much as I fear, mark my words. Bethel, AK is going to be one of if not the darkest spot on the nation's covid map in a couple of weeks. Good grief.

ETA: I just looked, we already are. Sigh.


Last edited by AKCheesehead on January 09, 2021, 8:41 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 09, 2021, 3:14 PM Post
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Given that we have at least 50 states, and 1 federal government making recommendations some level of inconsistency is pretty much a guarantee, and in at minimum 2 parties with distinct values controlling those decisions in different locations... More relevantly the decisions both on the business and political levels on how to restart are mostly months old. Or where governments could (like MN) do more restrictions they were clearly moving that direction during the holidays so I don't see a philosophical inconsistency. Public health officials aren't really in a position to go back and refight the old battles (unless you believe that strategy was likely to succeed). So the real question does come down to does it make sense to target a single type of event that will involve about 1/3 of the population (based on 2019 travel numbers) moving?


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 09, 2021, 3:28 PM Post
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Baldkin said:
AKCheesehead said:
Certainly. They did spread out at mealtime, not congregated all around the table like normal. I too suspect that may have been the culprit. Or, heck, maybe even from serving utensils for all I know. Or from doing the dishes which no doubt Mom and Dad did since I wasn't there. Or, maybe breathed right through one mask and into another, we'll never know. I do know that there's really not a safe way to get together. I wasn't willing to take the chance. And the hell of it is, the reason I wasn't willing to go is because I was afraid I might pick it up on a plane or in an airport and get my parents sick with it.


It's an airborne virus, they were in the same house & rooms for extended periods of time and they had masks off for extended periods of time.

None of this is surprising at all.


To further add anecdotal stories, I was exposed to the virus for nearly 2 weeks straight in close quarters from my MIL and then my wife. I had 2-3 days where I didn't feel very good (felt like a head cold and then some drainage into my lungs), but never tested positive through 3 rapid tests. I don't know if that means I am immune or if I got it and recovered between tests, but this is definitely a strange virus.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 10, 2021, 5:59 PM Post
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Former CDC Director Dr. Tom Frieden is warning that the U.S. may soon face “close to a worst-case scenario” as a new, highly-contagious strain of Covid-19 spreads around the country, warning that full hospitals in the U.S. may soon be the norm.

...

Frieden said of the strain that is rapidly spreading around the U.K. and Ireland that “I've never seen an epidemic curve like this.”

The U.K. is averaging nearly 60,000 new cases a day now, after averaging around 15,000 new cases a day at the start of December, while Ireland’s rise has been even more rapid.

Both countries are under strict lockdowns, yet cases continue to rise at a rate Frieden—who has spent decades working in public health—says he has never seen.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2021/01/08/close-to-a-worst-case-scenario-former-cdc-director-issues-horrifying-outlook-for-new-covid-strain/?sh=69d541ed3738


So I have to laugh because I read this article right after I read an article where the expert said the new COVID variant isn't really anything to worry about - maybe it's more contagious but current protective measures and the vaccine should work just as well. I get it, this thing is still new and we're learning but can we quit with the "murder porn" quotes in COVID news stories. Everything is "this is only going to get worse" and "more and more people are going to die". Every news story reads like Bill Hader doing a Dateline skit on SNL where the reporter just gets more and more excited the worse and more grizzly the story gets.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 10, 2021, 7:06 PM Post
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The media loves the negativity, keeps us all fearful, which is what they like.

I'm to the point now that I am tuning out anything covid related, politics related, and basically anything being reported by our media. Every once in a while I a do a clense, and it improves my mood, and just plain makes me feel happier. The doom and gloom really gets old.

The recent events, plus what is coming down the pike makes this a pefect time to tune out for a couple of weeks.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 10, 2021, 9:02 PM Post
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thebruce44 said:
Baldkin said:
AKCheesehead said:
Certainly. They did spread out at mealtime, not congregated all around the table like normal. I too suspect that may have been the culprit. Or, heck, maybe even from serving utensils for all I know. Or from doing the dishes which no doubt Mom and Dad did since I wasn't there. Or, maybe breathed right through one mask and into another, we'll never know. I do know that there's really not a safe way to get together. I wasn't willing to take the chance. And the hell of it is, the reason I wasn't willing to go is because I was afraid I might pick it up on a plane or in an airport and get my parents sick with it.


It's an airborne virus, they were in the same house & rooms for extended periods of time and they had masks off for extended periods of time.

None of this is surprising at all.


To further add anecdotal stories, I was exposed to the virus for nearly 2 weeks straight in close quarters from my MIL and then my wife. I had 2-3 days where I didn't feel very good (felt like a head cold and then some drainage into my lungs), but never tested positive through 3 rapid tests. I don't know if that means I am immune or if I got it and recovered between tests, but this is definitely a strange virus.


That isn't all that strange. No virus ever gets to everybody even if they are in close contact with it. The hysteria over this has naturally led people to assume if they're around someone who had it, they have it, but even if nobody took a single precaution, there would be millions of people who never get infected.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 11, 2021, 2:50 PM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
thebruce44 said:
Baldkin said:
It's an airborne virus, they were in the same house & rooms for extended periods of time and they had masks off for extended periods of time.

None of this is surprising at all.


To further add anecdotal stories, I was exposed to the virus for nearly 2 weeks straight in close quarters from my MIL and then my wife. I had 2-3 days where I didn't feel very good (felt like a head cold and then some drainage into my lungs), but never tested positive through 3 rapid tests. I don't know if that means I am immune or if I got it and recovered between tests, but this is definitely a strange virus.


That isn't all that strange. No virus ever gets to everybody even if they are in close contact with it. The hysteria over this has naturally led people to assume if they're around someone who had it, they have it, but even if nobody took a single precaution, there would be millions of people who never get infected.


But I literally had COVID shoved up my nose (our toddler thinks its hilarious to stick a Neosporin bottle cap tip up her nose and everyone else's). I think it is more likely that a portion of the population already has antibodies without getting the virus. I had a head cold a week before exposure, which I read can be caused by other types of Coronaviruses. Maybe that helped? Again, all anecdotal and speculation on my part.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 11, 2021, 2:55 PM Post
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I could be wrong, but I thought the rapid tests can only detect large viral loads, otherwise they give you a negative. So the fact that you were largely asymptomatic suggests that you probably had COVID with a low viral load.


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Online  Re: COVID-19 Thread [V2.0]
Posted: January 11, 2021, 3:48 PM Post
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thebruce44 said:

But I literally had COVID shoved up my nose (our toddler thinks its hilarious to stick a Neosporin bottle cap tip up her nose and everyone else's). I think it is more likely that a portion of the population already has antibodies without getting the virus. I had a head cold a week before exposure, which I read can be caused by other types of Coronaviruses. Maybe that helped? Again, all anecdotal and speculation on my part.


Sounds like you probably had it and recovered before they got it - potentially as an asymptomatic or incredibly mild symptomatic case. There's also the chance you just weren't symptomatic while your significant others were, as the rapid testing doesn't do a good job at detecting true asymptomatic cases (for a random group of 3 infected people it would be expected that at least 1 not be symptomatic based on testing results to date, anyway). I think the false negative rate for rapid testing on asymptomatic cases is very high - basically to the point where there's not much benefit in even taking that test instead of a PCR test.

On the other hand, if your only primary direct exposure to someone who you knew had it was your toddler and a wayward Neosporin cap, and you did your best to maintain as many mitigation measures as possible to limit prolonged exposure from your wife - it's not surprising you didn't get infected from your toddler. Young children rarely have an immune system developed enough to carry a high enough viral load to infect adults.

The only way to really tell at this point is to take a COVID antibody test, and even that has the potential to return a false negative if you had COVID long enough ago with limited/no immune system response.


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