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Gilbert Lara discussion; Update: Brewers sign Lara for $3.2 million (post #77)

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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#61

Posted: June 20, 2014, 3:35 PM Post
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Take it for what it is worth but Max Wildstein lead writer for Calltothepen tweets that Lara has agreed with Brewers for 3.2 Million. Later tweets won't obviously be official till July 2nd.

https://twitter.com/MaxWildstein/status ... 2614336512


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#62

Posted: June 20, 2014, 3:40 PM Post
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Warning Track Power said:
Mlb.com says we're the front runners to sign him:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/ ... /#list=int


It is funny looking at the whole top 30 the Yankees are the favorite for like half of the prospects listed mine as well spend it somewhere Yanks...


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Online  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#63

Posted: June 20, 2014, 6:17 PM Post
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BallFour said:
Take it for what it is worth but Max Wildstein lead writer for Calltothepen tweets that Lara has agreed with Brewers for 3.2 Million. Later tweets won't obviously be official till July 2nd.

https://twitter.com/MaxWildstein/status ... 2614336512

I would feel even better about it if he spelled his name correctly, but it is certainly better than hearing Lara has agreed to a deal with someone else.


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#64

Posted: June 22, 2014, 2:03 PM Post
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brewcrewdue80 said:
Having too many SSs hasn't been a problem for the Rangers filling up on more. They even drafted Ti'Quan Forbes a talented SS. Anyway when it comes to Lara, he to me looks destined for 3b. Gatewood wants to be Troy Tulowitzki playing SS, so I can imagine his focus is to remain there. If all three come on up and arrive within say a year of Arcia I'll just imagine Arcia at 2b/Gatewood at SS/ Lara at 3b. With Gatewood moving to 3b if Lara is hurt. Arcia moving to SS if Gatewood is hurt. Our utility at that moment covering 2b if Arcia winds up hurt. Now we just need a true impact 1b prospect!


How does Lara look like he is destined for 3rd right now? I've only seen a few clips here and there, so I'm not sure where the 16 year old will end up. What's your opinion that he's not a SS based on?


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#65

Posted: June 23, 2014, 8:05 AM Post
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The scouting consensus seems to be that Lara will not stick at shortstop, and I've seen corner outfield mentioned more often than third base recently.


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#66

Posted: June 23, 2014, 3:34 PM Post
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https://twitter.com/AdamMcCalvy/status/ ... 9337267203

ICYMI, colleague @JesseSanchezMLB previewed upcoming int'l signing period. Ranks #Brewers' Lara 4th-best available: http://atmlb.com/1qFiJzE


Not sure if he knows something, or is just reading the expected consensus, but was surprised to see the use of possessive language in McCalvy's tweet.


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#67

Posted: June 28, 2014, 1:15 AM Post
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And That said:
The scouting consensus seems to be that Lara will not stick at shortstop, and I've seen corner outfield mentioned more often than third base recently.



I haven't seen any consensus other than the obligatory, he MAY outgrow the position...etc..etc..etc..

From most of the articles I've read he's a very smooth defensive IF'er with a very strong arm. I guess I just think some of this, "he's not going to stick at...whatever position," commentary is getting more and more ridiculous and it's usually based on size and industry norms. People are so eager to move Coulter despite the fact that he's just 20 and has elite tools to be a catcher(and has greatly improved back there as well).

Now we're projecting that a 16 year old kid isn't going to stick at SS because of his frame? Look at guys like Tulo or Ripken. Guys come in all different body types. But I haven't seen Lara. I have seen Coulter quite a bit. Obviously a lot of guys who come up as SS's have to move. But lets see him play a couple years there first.


Likely the second best overall prospect available for the July 2 signing period, Lara is a big rangy shortstop with an exciting combination of tools. Scouts love his athleticism, projectable frame, and top level bat speed. At the plate Lara is an aggressive hitter. He has natural loft in his swing and the ball really carries, which should allow him to hit for double digit homeruns if he can refine his raw hitting approach. There are times when he’ll pull off the ball trying to drive it, or lunge out against off speed pitches as he did against Huascor Ynoa in their at bat. His pitch recognition isn’t the greatest right now, but will hopefully improve with time. Defensively Lara shows good range and fluidity and enough arm strength for the left side of the diamond. If I had to bet I would say he has a better chance of staying at short than his countryman Garcia, but he’s no certainty either. As athletic as he is, you probably wouldn’t immediately think infielder just by looking at him. I can’t think of a natural comparison except maybe a right handed hitting Curtis Granderson. He has the same combination of power and speed, and similar hitting mechanics with the hands high and close to the body and the leg lift trigger. Reports connect him to the Royals and Brewers for close to the 3 million Dermis is expected to get from the Yankees.


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#68

Posted: June 28, 2014, 9:36 PM Post
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HiAndTight said:
I haven't seen any consensus other than the obligatory, he MAY outgrow the position...etc..etc..etc..
Kiley McDaniel:
Gilbert Lara has the loose, handsy, fluid swing that scouts are looking for with the plus bat speed and raw power to project as a future All-Star. He hit a number of balls out to left field at the heavily scouted MLB showcase and hit a triple and homerun in the game portion of the event. The chatter among scouts is the Dominican third baseman has an agreement with the Milwaukee Brewers for a $3.2 million bonus.
MLB.com:
He's a shortstop now but could end up at third base or right field because of his future arm and decent hands.
Baseball America:
Lara has some of the best raw power in the 2014 international signing class. At 6-foot-3, 205 pounds, he’s bigger and more physical than most of the kids for this year, and he’s shown the ability to take the ball over the fence in game situations, even with a grip-and-rip approach that leads to some empty hacks. He won’t be a shortstop, but he will get paid for his offensive upside. His bonus is expected to be more than $3 million.
Baseball America a few weeks later:
Lara has a chance to play third base, but most scouts peg him as a future left fielder or first baseman, so he’s going to produce at a level at the plate to have value.
Baseball America yet again:
Lara can’t play shortstop, and while he will get a chance to play third base, several scouts think he’s a future left fielder or first baseman, which will put a lot of pressure on his bat.
That thing you quoted, from a Toronto Blue Jays fan blog:
Defensively Lara shows good range and fluidity and enough arm strength for the left side of the diamond. If I had to bet I would say he has a better chance of staying at short than his countryman Garcia, but he’s no certainty either (?).


So basically, we have Baseball America sourcing scouts saying he can't play shortstop, Kiley McDaniel not even providing it as an option, MLB.com hazy at best about the prospect, and some Blue Jays blog saying he looks like Curtis Granderson on the infield, but he's certainly no either.

You are, of course, free to draw your own conclusions, but to me Baseball America and Kiley McDaniel hold more water than the grammar-impaired Breaking Blue.


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#69

Posted: June 29, 2014, 1:59 PM Post
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And That said:
HiAndTight said:
I haven't seen any consensus other than the obligatory, he MAY outgrow the position...etc..etc..etc..
Kiley McDaniel:
Gilbert Lara has the loose, handsy, fluid swing that scouts are looking for with the plus bat speed and raw power to project as a future All-Star. He hit a number of balls out to left field at the heavily scouted MLB showcase and hit a triple and homerun in the game portion of the event. The chatter among scouts is the Dominican third baseman has an agreement with the Milwaukee Brewers for a $3.2 million bonus.
MLB.com:
He's a shortstop now but could end up at third base or right field because of his future arm and decent hands.
Baseball America:
Lara has some of the best raw power in the 2014 international signing class. At 6-foot-3, 205 pounds, he’s bigger and more physical than most of the kids for this year, and he’s shown the ability to take the ball over the fence in game situations, even with a grip-and-rip approach that leads to some empty hacks. He won’t be a shortstop, but he will get paid for his offensive upside. His bonus is expected to be more than $3 million.
Baseball America a few weeks later:
Lara has a chance to play third base, but most scouts peg him as a future left fielder or first baseman, so he’s going to produce at a level at the plate to have value.
Baseball America yet again:
Lara can’t play shortstop, and while he will get a chance to play third base, several scouts think he’s a future left fielder or first baseman, which will put a lot of pressure on his bat.
That thing you quoted, from a Toronto Blue Jays fan blog:
Defensively Lara shows good range and fluidity and enough arm strength for the left side of the diamond. If I had to bet I would say he has a better chance of staying at short than his countryman Garcia, but he’s no certainty either (?).


So basically, we have Baseball America sourcing scouts saying he can't play shortstop, Kiley McDaniel not even providing it as an option, MLB.com hazy at best about the prospect, and some Blue Jays blog saying he looks like Curtis Granderson on the infield, but he's certainly no either.

You are, of course, free to draw your own conclusions, but to me Baseball America and Kiley McDaniel hold more water than the grammar-impaired Breaking Blue.


It actually says;Defensively Lara shows good range and fluidity and enough arm strength for the left side of the diamond. If I had to bet I would say he has a better chance of staying at short than his countryman Garcia, but he’s no certainty either.

How exactly is there a problem with the grammar there? You realize you changed not only the order of the words, but the actual word when you quoted it at the bottom. "he's not certainty either." As in, he's not certainty to stay at SS either. He has the hands and fluid body, but it's no certainty.

Which is my entire point. It has nothing to do with me taking one blog and you taking Baseball America saying it several times, and then McDaniel or who "holds more water," it's the absurdity of stating that a 15 or 16 year old kid won't be able to stay at a certain position. I just find it kinda asinine. It's one thing if they're talking about Jimmy Nelson being a reliever as BA as has done. He was at least in his 20's and had two really good pitches before rounding out his arsenal a bit.

And by the way, ONE site(Baseball America) saying he'll move, one(MLB.com) saying he could stay, he could move) and a third writer getting his current position wrong(as I don't think there is any question he IS currently a SS) does not make a consensus.

I imagine the "consensus," would have been that Ripken and Tulo would have been future 3rd basemen or RF'ers when they were 16 years old as well. They would have been wrong. They also very likely would have said that Carlos Gomez would move off of SS. They obviously would have been correct. But why is there any need to guess right now? He's 6 years away right now, and even these reports you cite, don't give any reasons as to why he'll move off of short. So it sounds like it's a "just because," situation.


But as you said, I am free to draw my own conclusions. And my conclusion is that we make these determinations on where players can play, that they'll out grow a position, that they'll have to move, WAY too early and that at some point we're just flat out guessing. And in that event, BA is smart, but it's far more likely that a 16 year old will end up at another position.


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#70

Posted: June 29, 2014, 4:11 PM Post
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Keep in mind we are talking about a 16-year-old who may or may not have ever set foot outside the Dominican Republic. He is not touring on a high school/college circuit and I doubt even Baseball America or MLB.com have multiple great sources who have seen these international prospects play very much.

I suspect the greatest objective "scouting report" of these prospects' value is the actual dollar figures they end up securing from MLB teams. The fact that the Brewers are willing to break the bank and give an unprecedented (for Milwaukee) $3-3.5M for Lara indicates he is pretty good. If he doesn't have the tools to stick at SS, then that probably means they think his bat is extremely impressive even at 1B/LF. If his bat isn't quite that good, then that probably means they think he can stick at SS or at least 3B.

We'll find out whether Lara has long-term potential at SS when we see how the Brewers handle him after (hopefully) signing him in a couple weeks.


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#71

Posted: June 29, 2014, 7:43 PM Post
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HiAndTight said:
And by the way, ONE site(Baseball America) saying he'll move, one(MLB.com) saying he could stay, he could move) and a third writer getting his current position wrong(as I don't think there is any question he IS currently a SS) does not make a consensus.
Considering that Baseball America's position is based on the opinions of a number of scouts, and that Kiley McDaniel is a scout himself, yes I would say that a majority of scouts whose position on the issue is available would seem to be disinclined to project Lara as a shortstop.


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#72

Posted: June 30, 2014, 12:42 PM Post
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H&T You're right in that I'm basing my 3b opinion on nothing but conjecture I've read as posted just above. I just read in to that as being a strong indication he's not going to play SS. What is it I read previously about HS/College players. That typically the SS is being played by the most athletically talented player on the team, but when they move to Pro-ball a more destined position is where they are placed based on their gifts/tools/talents/projection. All I can say is Milwaukee seems destined to put in 3+mil for this kid. His SS position would immediately be blocked by the future of Arcia playing SS everyday. Based upon the fact he reads as having a strong arm/with power in his bat, and the organization desperately needs a 3b for the future with Above Avg talent, I really assume Lara's signing when done is geared towards him moving and playing 3b. Now, Gatewood's selection may add a little less apparent to that statement, and maybe that also has the rumored 1b/Outfield tie in to where he'll play vs. just sticking to 3b. Since like me, BA can look at what's in the system today and to the future and say, Gatewood blocks Lara at 3b as Arcia blocks Gatewood at SS so, we now peg him to be a 1b or Right Fielder. (Thus far Gatewood has DH'd and played 3 games at SS) I could easily see the future playing out as Arcia 2b/Gatewood SS/Lara 3b. Who knows? It's all so early, I pegged him at 3b because doesn't that make his signing more exciting to you vs. if you now say he's going to stick at SS? Well, Great, we need a 3b and instead we have 3 SSs to look forward to joining the team in 3-5years.


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#73

Posted: June 30, 2014, 2:12 PM Post
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I don't think they should make any decision on where to play Lara based on MLB needs. He probably at least 6 years away from the majors. You don't draft based on MLB needs why would you make a decision like that based on MLB needs with a guy at least 2 years younger than anyone entering the draft? You play a guy at the toughest position he can handle and worry about it when he is MLB ready. Like they did with Lucroy.

Fan is short for fanatic.
I blame Wang.


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#74

Posted: July 02, 2014, 9:19 AM Post
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Ben Badler:

No. 1 prospect Adrian Rondon won't sign today. He and Kenny Hernandez are still 15. Could also see Gilbert Lara waiting a little to sign.


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#75

Posted: July 02, 2014, 10:15 AM Post
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Max Wildstein ⚾️ @MaxWildstein · 49m
Source says that Lara deal with #Brewers is for about $3.2 million plus some performance incentives. Deal is somewhere between 3.2-3.6 mil.
ReplyReplied to 0 times RetweetRetweeted 3 times3 FavoriteFavorited 2 times2


Max Wildstein ⚾️ @MaxWildstein · 1h
Source: #Brewers sign SS Gilbert Lara to a deal worth approximately $3.4 million with incentives


Last edited by TooLiveBrew on July 02, 2014, 10:18 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Formatting (easier to read) :)


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion (rumored to have agreement in place w/Brewers, post #3)
#76

Posted: July 02, 2014, 10:54 AM Post
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More confirmation...

https://twitter.com/Enrique_Rojas1/stat ... 8617488385


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/07/b ... -lara.html


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion; Update: Brewers reportedly sign Lara for $3+ million
#77

Posted: July 02, 2014, 12:51 PM Post
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http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mil/brewers-lock-up-star-international-prospect-gilbert-lara?ymd=20140628&content_id=82057432&vkey=news_mil

Brewers' own site confirms the signing


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion; Update: Brewers reportedly sign Lara for $3+ million
#78

Posted: July 02, 2014, 1:21 PM Post
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I wouldn't worry too much about having too much talent at one position at this point in time. Arcia is 20 next month, Gatewood is 18, and Lara is 16. Even if they all reach their potential and become regular MLB starters, there is plenty of time before the Brewers will have to worry about making room for all of them on the MLB roster.

It does add talent to the system, giving us options for the future, which is always a good thing.


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Online  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion; Update: Brewers reportedly sign Lara for $3+ million
#79

Posted: July 02, 2014, 2:41 PM Post
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spot on Monty57


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Offline  Re: Gilbert Lara discussion; Update: Brewers reportedly sign Lara for $3+ million
#80

Posted: July 02, 2014, 3:01 PM Post
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monty57 said:
I wouldn't worry too much about having too much talent at one position at this point in time. Arcia is 20 next month, Gatewood is 18, and Lara is 16. Even if they all reach their potential and become regular MLB starters, there is plenty of time before the Brewers will have to worry about making room for all of them on the MLB roster.

It does add talent to the system, giving us options for the future, which is always a good thing.

Totally agree. So much can happen to these guys (good and bad), you can't worry about down the road too much.

It's a lot easier to move a guy off shortstop to 2B or 3B or wherever than the other way around.

If in five years we a stud SS prospect at AAA blocked by a stud SS in Milwaukee, I'll be thrilled. At that point, someone is transitioned to a new spot - or dealt.


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