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Luke Heimlich

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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#21

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:01 PM Post
Posts: 8111
Location: Kenosha, WI
yoyomayoma said:


I’m glad you’re not running the team. Comparing Braun to a child rapist is almost comical.


Did I say that? Anywhere? Nope, so back off. Didn’t even infer that.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#22

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:05 PM Post
Posts: 354
MrTPlush said:
Why not draft Heimlich? Where exactly are we suppose to draw moral line? Just looking at the Brewers we have a nice slate of questionable moral decisions made by our players.

-Jeremy Jeffress has a substance abuse problem and drove drunk.
-Ryan Braun proved to be a pretty terrible human for a little while.
-K-Rod best a woman/wife I believe?
-Domestic violence across the league multiple times.

What he did is seriously messed up don’t get me wrong. He was young though and while he probably knew it was wrong he might not have understood the magnitude of wrong. He was at a confusing age 13-15 when he did it. Despite popular belief not everyone was as mature as the typical person at the age.

Does he deserve a chance? I don’t know. I don’t know that the PR hit is worth it. I don’t really get how some people deserve second chances, but others are automatically scum. Some people are applauded after doing wrong if they try to make up for it...doubt this kid would get a warm welcome if he tried to do anything good.

Once again I’m not sure what to think of him. I just find it interesting how much hate this wrong doing gets while the majority just doesn’t care about DUIs, cheaters, liars, and domestic violence in this sport. Heck we celebrate and remember Jose Fernandez who did hard drugs and possibly/probably killed some of his friends crashing a boat under the influence. His number will hang in the rafters forever.



Wow.....just amazing justification trying to equate Jeremy Jeffress struggles with pot and Ryan Braun's PED's to a 15 year old kid molesting a 6 year old. 15 isn't some clueless young kid who doesn't know what he's doing. That's a total cop out. Nor is a 13 year old for that matter. And it started when his niece was 4 if it is true(again, he's saying it's not).


But you just made a unbelievable leap from Jeffress and Braun to an accused pedophile. And if he did what he's accused of, it's not like the urges that made him do that are going away. It's not ever natural and you don't get confused at age 13 if it's ok to molest your little 4 year old niece in the way he was accused of doing so to gain sexual gratification.

This post was beyond irresponsible. To ask the question rhetorically where we should draw a line and at what point do we allow a kid to move past his transgressions in one thing, but to even try to hold up two ridiculously minor offenses(when compared to what he was accused of) is more telling of your moral barometer to me than the Brewers.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#23

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:06 PM Post
Posts: 150
You compared their moral decisions. Not in the same ballpark. The guy raped a 6 year old girl. If you think it’s fine for him to wear a Brewer uniform, that’s your opinion. I don’t. I don’t need to back down.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#24

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:09 PM Post
Posts: 354
MrTPlush said:
yoyomayoma said:


I’m glad you’re not running the team. Comparing Braun to a child rapist is almost comical.


Did I say that? Anywhere? Nope, so back off. Didn’t even infer that.



Yeah, you absolutely did infer that. You inferred there was a line, then used Braun's past transgressions as one point in that line and then tried to in some ways justify what the young man was accused of when you advocated drafting him.


I don't have a strong opinion on drafting him because it IS very possible and believable that he would be pressured to admit to something to be able to enter a diversionary program rather than to proceed to trial and be potentially tried as an adult. And you add to the fact that it would be sealed from his record after 5 years and it makes more sense.

But if I believed he did that as you obviously do given what you wrote in your post, I can't fathom how you could argue FOR wanting that guy to play for your favorite team. I watch sports to root for my team to win, and I can accept giving a guy a second chance for a lot of things. But I can't knowingly root for a guy who molested a 4 year old girl.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#25

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:13 PM Post
Posts: 8111
Location: Kenosha, WI
I’m sorry you guys are having trouble reading. I NEVER compared Braun, Jeffress, or anyone else to Heimlich to justify what he did. I mentioned them as other moral wrong doings that we all seem to turn a blind eye to and was curious where one is suppose to draw the line? Never compared them or tried to use those to justify Heimlich.

I will always get a good chuckle when people turn into psychology experts and act like they know everything. Especially state their opinion as fact. All I am saying is if you think every 13-15 year old is at the same developmental age you are sadly mistaken.

I just find it interesting the weird line drawn on moral issues when it comes to sports. I didn’t even give an opinion on anyone I mentioned in my post. I just listed other players and there moral wrongdoings.


Last edited by MrTPlush on June 05, 2018, 7:15 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#26

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:14 PM Post
Posts: 354
yoyomayoma said:
You compared their moral decisions. Not in the same ballpark. The guy raped a 6 year old girl. If you think it’s fine for him to wear a Brewer uniform, that’s your opinion. I don’t. I don’t need to back down.



Not to quibble, but that's when he is accused of stopping. She was 4 when he started. And by the way, 13-15 sounds young, especially to me now(35). But I think back to that age and the things I was doing and......this isn't some clueless, "I'll show me yours if you show me mine" encounter by a couple of 4 year olds. You damn well know what you're doing at that age.


Again, I don't even KNOW that he did it. But to believe he did it and then compare his crime with even K-Rod's is pretty disgusting to me. They are NOT on the same spectrum.

Frankly, I don't think shooting someone in the head in a fight at the bar is on the same level as what this kid did. I can find a justification for just about any action(heat of the moment, he was scared for his life). But 24 MONTHS of molestation....nope, not on the same "line" as Ryan Braun using PED's.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#27

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:14 PM Post
Posts: 1
Location: Florida
OnTheBlack said:
MrTPlush said:
yoyomayoma said:


I’m glad you’re not running the team. Comparing Braun to a child rapist is almost comical.


Did I say that? Anywhere? Nope, so back off. Didn’t even infer that.



Yeah, you absolutely did infer that. You inferred there was a line, then used Braun's past transgressions as one point in that line and then tried to in some ways justify what the young man was accused of when you advocated drafting him.

To be fair, he didn't infer that, but he definitely implied that.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#28

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:23 PM Post
Posts: 354
MrTPlush said:
I’m sorry you guys are having trouble reading. I NEVER compared Braun, Jeffress, or anyone else to Heimlich to justify what he did. I mentioned them as other moral wrong doings that we all seem to turn a blind eye to and was curious where one is suppose to draw the line? Never compared them or tried to use those to justify Heimlich.

I will always get a good chuckle when people turn into psychology experts and act like they know everything. Especially state their opinion as fact. All I am saying is if you think every 13-15 year old is at the same developmental age you are sadly mistaken.

I just find it interesting the weird line drawn on moral issues when it comes to sports. I didn’t even give an opinion on anyone I mentioned in my post. I just listed other players and there moral wrongdoings.


I'm sorry you're having trouble understanding what the word inference means. But when you say that you don't know where to draw the line, then you say look at what player A, B and C did, then go on to justify what player D did, you're absolutely comparing them and making an inference. It's really not difficult to understand. If Ryan Braun had nothing to do with your Heimlich, then why mention him in your post? Because you're using his actions to JUSTIFY your argument.



And you so clearly did give an opinion. You said "why not draft Heimlich," then everything else you said was an argument as to why we SHOULD draft him. Hence...your opinion. If you're embarrassed by it, just say you worded it incorrectly, but it's right there. You can't argue you didn't say what you said.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#29

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:27 PM Post
Posts: 8111
Location: Kenosha, WI
Sorry my post was greatly taken out of proportion. I was curious where the line is drawn on moral issues. It just seems to taken some odd twists and turns when it comes to sports. It wasn’t meant to say if Heimlich isn’t okay then Braun isn’t. Not my point.

Really the Heimlich situation made me think of moral issues in general and how they get perceived in sports. Domestic violence in the NFL is a death sentence, but not so much in the MLB. DUIs in reality is really bad, but just ignored by fans in sports. Fernandez is probably the most extreme case that gets applauded after pretty bad stuff. Adrian Peterson is pretty normalized now even after whipping his own child.

No, that wasn’t my opinion. I was simply asking the question and then providing a different look. I still stated I wasn’t really sure what to think of him.


Last edited by MrTPlush on June 05, 2018, 7:29 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#30

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:28 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 2511
I'm not even sure why a juvenile's criminal record is public knowledge to be tabloid fodder for the sports media, but in any event this thread is a great example of why Heimlich is not worth the hassle for the 5% chance he ever becomes a productive major leaguer. The fact is, even valued at millions of dollars, these players are fairly interchangeable at this point in their careers.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#31

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:29 PM Post
Posts: 354
stavid_dearns said:

[/quote[/i]]To be fair, he didn't infer that, but he definitely implied that.
[/quote]


Touche....he didn't infer there was a line, he literally said that part. The rest, implied or inferred is semantics. Ryan Braun, Jeremy Jefrress and even what K-Rod did should absolutely never be brought up to argue in the affirmative for someone whom you believe committed the crimes this young man was accused of and pleaded guilty.

If you want to argue for drafting him, again, I don't think it's a leap at all that the family decided to plead guilty because he would be allowed to enter a diversionary program and that it would be sealed 5 years after it happened.

But at that point, I'm gonna want the kid to take a polygraph and do a whole lot of investigating before I'd draft him...which I'm guessing many teams did.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#32

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:29 PM Post
Posts: 150
MrTPlush said:
I’m sorry you guys are having trouble reading. I NEVER compared Braun, Jeffress, or anyone else to Heimlich to justify what he did. I mentioned them as other moral wrong doings that we all seem to turn a blind eye to and was curious where one is suppose to draw the line? Never compared them or tried to use those to justify Heimlich.

I will always get a good chuckle when people turn into psychology experts and act like they know everything. Especially state their opinion as fact. All I am saying is if you think every 13-15 year old is at the same developmental age you are sadly mistaken.

I just find it interesting the weird line drawn on moral issues when it comes to sports. I didn’t even give an opinion on anyone I mentioned in my post. I just listed other players and there moral wrongdoings.



I wouldn’t sign him. You would consider it. I don’t feel the need to debate anything else. Raping a little girl is probably the worst thing a human being can do. If your question is where do we draw the line, that’s it. You can stop replying to me. There’s nothing else to say.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#33

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:31 PM Post
Posts: 7418
MrTPlush said:
I’m sorry you guys are having trouble reading. I NEVER compared Braun, Jeffress, or anyone else to Heimlich to justify what he did. I mentioned them as other moral wrong doings that we all seem to turn a blind eye to and was curious where one is suppose to draw the line? Never compared them or tried to use those to justify Heimlich.

I will always get a good chuckle when people turn into psychology experts and act like they know everything. Especially state their opinion as fact. All I am saying is if you think every 13-15 year old is at the same developmental age you are sadly mistaken.

I just find it interesting the weird line drawn on moral issues when it comes to sports. I didn’t even give an opinion on anyone I mentioned in my post. I just listed other players and there moral wrongdoings.


People also love to jump to conclusions. We don’t know what happened. We know the accusation and that he pled guilty. Is what he did worse than Yo? Driving at 3-times the legal limit is pretty severe and I was appalled that MLB didn’t suspend him. KRod abusing his girlfriend and his father-in-law is pretty bad. We acquired him what, 3-times? I didn’t do stupid stuff as a teen, but as a teacher I see kids all the tine doing stupid stuff. My point is that he’s served his punishment in the eyes of the law. I’m not sure I want the brewers to have him, but I don’t feel baseball should blackball him.

Edit- not to imply I see kids doing stupid stuff...obvious stories from around school are what I mean.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#34

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:32 PM Post
Posts: 150
DHonks said:
MrTPlush said:
I’m sorry you guys are having trouble reading. I NEVER compared Braun, Jeffress, or anyone else to Heimlich to justify what he did. I mentioned them as other moral wrong doings that we all seem to turn a blind eye to and was curious where one is suppose to draw the line? Never compared them or tried to use those to justify Heimlich.

I will always get a good chuckle when people turn into psychology experts and act like they know everything. Especially state their opinion as fact. All I am saying is if you think every 13-15 year old is at the same developmental age you are sadly mistaken.

I just find it interesting the weird line drawn on moral issues when it comes to sports. I didn’t even give an opinion on anyone I mentioned in my post. I just listed other players and there moral wrongdoings.


People also love to jump to conclusions. We don’t know what happened. We know the accusation and that he pled guilty. Is what he did worse than Yo? Driving at 3-times the legal limit is pretty severe and I was appalled that MLB didn’t suspend him. KRod abusing his girlfriend and his father-in-law is pretty bad. We acquired him what, 3-times? I didn’t do stupid stuff as a teen, but as a teacher I see kids all the tine doing stupid stuff. My point is that he’s served his punishment in the eyes of the law. I’m not sure I want the brewers to have him, but I don’t feel baseball should blackball him.


I agree that everyone can make their own decision on him. I would hope Stearns doesn’t want to take that risk.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#35

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:33 PM Post
Posts: 354
SRB said:
I'm not even sure why a juvenile's criminal record is public knowledge to be tabloid fodder for the sports media, but in any event this thread is a great example of why Heimlich is not worth the hassle for the 5% chance he ever becomes a productive major leaguer. The fact is, even valued at millions of dollars, these players are fairly interchangeable at this point in their careers.



Because he got into trouble for not registering as a sexual offender when he moved.....I believe. So that, coupled with the fact that he's a potential professional baseball player and he spoke publicly on the topic is why it's public information. I also don't believe he was charged initially as a juvenile. I believe it became a juvenile offense as part of the plea bargain. But I could be wrong.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#36

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:33 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 2511
OnTheBlack said:
Touche....he didn't infer there was a line, he literally said that part. The rest, implied or inferred is semantics. Ryan Braun, Jeremy Jefrress and even what K-Rod did should absolutely never be brought up to argue in the affirmative for someone whom you believe committed the crimes this young man was accused of and pleaded guilty.


Doesn't seem like a productive discussion to start arguing about an arbitrary hierarchy of crimes, including adult millionaire K-Rod physical assaulting the mother of his child and getting away with it without even facing public backlash. It's interesting (and good) how quickly MLB has changed with players like Osuna and Sano getting suspend this year, because MLB certainly did not care whatsoever even just a couple years ago.

Aroldis Chapman physically assaulted and fired a gun while threatening his girlfriend, was suspended briefly, and then got a $90 million contract from the biggest media market in sports.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#37

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:40 PM Post
Posts: 8111
Location: Kenosha, WI
For right or wrong it will be interesting to see how his baseball career goes. Notable Oregon State and their fans seem to support him and cheer him on...so I’m not sure how that will change at the next level.

It already appears he could be pretty widely embraced...at least by his home team and fans. An anonymous executive thinks a team could handle the PR...but...I mean...man idk. Your talking about trotting out a guy in front of fathers with daughters at the game. That just sounds like a not so family friendly day at the ballpark.


Last edited by MrTPlush on June 05, 2018, 7:47 PM, edited 2 times in total.

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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#38

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:41 PM Post
Posts: 354
SRB said:
OnTheBlack said:
Touche....he didn't infer there was a line, he literally said that part. The rest, implied or inferred is semantics. Ryan Braun, Jeremy Jefrress and even what K-Rod did should absolutely never be brought up to argue in the affirmative for someone whom you believe committed the crimes this young man was accused of and pleaded guilty.


Doesn't seem like a productive discussion to start arguing about an arbitrary hierarchy of crimes, including adult millionaire K-Rod physical assaulting the mother of his child and getting away with it without even facing public backlash. It's interesting (and good) how quickly MLB has changed with players like Osuna and Sano getting suspend this year, because MLB certainly did not care whatsoever even just a couple years ago.



Yeah, I never really knew the whole story there to be honest....just that there was some altercation.

The problem is "domestic violence," in and of itself is vague. When you see Ray Rice in the video....you know what you saw is awful. But there can also be a family argument and some relatively mundane actions that take place like grabbing women by the arm and leaving finger print marks. That's a place where you can use a sliding scale. Did you punch/strike the women, chock her or did you obstruct her while arguing...etc...etc....


Professional sports has done a better job of penalizing violent assaults in recent years....but there's still the stigma out there that athletes get in trouble for these actions more than average people, which is not the case. Just the opposite in fact.


Anyway, we're starting to get WAAAY off track.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#39

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:42 PM Post
Posts: 1801
I don’t know.... I read the way he said he meant to. Plush is asking the question, where do you draw the line? Heimlich May or not be innocent of this, we will never know. Knowing someone who had been in that position I get the pressure to take the deal. Moreover, wasn’t his choice to make really. At 13-15 you know what’s going on with those actions but when it comes to legal issues.... no way. I teach kids that age in social studies & they are clueless. Lawyer & parents made choice that is what he needed to do.

Question is just where do you draw the line. If you believe he didn’t do it & has been outstanding human since. Is that enough? I think a man beating a women is awful. I think drunk driving & killing a man is awful. I think being arrested with trunk full of 100k, guns, and tons of cocaine is pretty bad... Rapping a drunk girl in bathroom stall violently while you entourage guard all the doors & refuse friend from helping her... terrible. Those guys have been found guilty (well Big Ben I think I got off) & teams in sports have openly held their arms out for them. A kid who may be innocent for one of the absolute worst types of crimes when he was 15.... I don’t know. Guess it comes down to if you truly believe he never did it. I’m a dad to an 8 year old daughter so personally if he really did it, no way does he deserve a chance. Can’t tell me a 7th-9th grader has no clue that pulling down a 4-6 year olds pants & doing what is claimed is awful & wrong! But I don’t know the kid & if he did actually did it. All gray area. I say no for Brewers though. PR nightmare & while very good, not worth it. Too awful of a crime he is accused of.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#40

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:43 PM Post
Posts: 3373
Can you guys start a separate thread about Heimlich?

I was enjoying the discussion about the actual Brewers draft picks.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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