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Luke Heimlich

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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#41

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:50 PM Post
Posts: 354
DHonks said:
MrTPlush said:
I’m sorry you guys are having trouble reading. I NEVER compared Braun, Jeffress, or anyone else to Heimlich to justify what he did. I mentioned them as other moral wrong doings that we all seem to turn a blind eye to and was curious where one is suppose to draw the line? Never compared them or tried to use those to justify Heimlich.

I will always get a good chuckle when people turn into psychology experts and act like they know everything. Especially state their opinion as fact. All I am saying is if you think every 13-15 year old is at the same developmental age you are sadly mistaken.

I just find it interesting the weird line drawn on moral issues when it comes to sports. I didn’t even give an opinion on anyone I mentioned in my post. I just listed other players and there moral wrongdoings.


People also love to jump to conclusions. We don’t know what happened. We know the accusation and that he pled guilty. Is what he did worse than Yo? Driving at 3-times the legal limit is pretty severe and I was appalled that MLB didn’t suspend him. KRod abusing his girlfriend and his father-in-law is pretty bad. We acquired him what, 3-times? I didn’t do stupid stuff as a teen, but as a teacher I see kids all the tine doing stupid stuff. My point is that he’s served his punishment in the eyes of the law. I’m not sure I want the brewers to have him, but I don’t feel baseball should blackball him.

Edit- not to imply I see kids doing stupid stuff...obvious stories from around school are what I mean.



I full agree with what you said. I've not taken a position on drafting him because....again, I do find it logical that he could have pled guilty thinking that in 5 years, this would be totally over with and nobody would ever know as opposed to a very public trial where he's treated as an adult. That said, the accusation was that he did this for two years. I've also worked in schools and the "kids do stupid stuff" argument isn't flying with me with regard to these accusations. I did stupid stuff. This is beyond stupid and it's sick stuff.

Anyway, I had one student...a REALLY great kid, valedictorian, full scholarship to Brown...he was turned 18, about 3 weeks later his 17 year old girlfriend sent him a picture..she was just weeks from her own birthday. She showed 3 students, kids talked, the parents found out. Bam, he has to register as a sex offender, scholarship revoked and he had to plead guilty to distributing child porn because he sent it to one of his friends.

So things can be very different when you dig into them.


But for the sake of this discussion, lets not forget, the comment that created the backlash was not disputing or in any way questioning the accusations. It was taking them at face value and then still advocating for the young man to be drafted. So I get your post. You don't know what happened, the legal system can be tricky and make people plead guilty when actually innocent, but he actually talked about how he may not have known what he was doing(or something to that affect) and massaged the accusations in other ways. That was part of what I found troubling.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#42

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:53 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 361
https://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sport ... s-baseball

Thought this was an interesting read on Heinrich. Not sure what to believe. Sad if he truly didn’t do it though.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#43

Posted: June 05, 2018, 7:55 PM Post
Posts: 354
YoungGeezy1 said:
I don’t know.... I read the way he said he meant to. Plush is asking the question, where do you draw the line? Heimlich May or not be innocent of this, we will never know. Knowing someone who had been in that position I get the pressure to take the deal. Moreover, wasn’t his choice to make really. At 13-15 you know what’s going on with those actions but when it comes to legal issues.... no way. I teach kids that age in social studies & they are clueless. Lawyer & parents made choice that is what he needed to do.

Question is just where do you draw the line. If you believe he didn’t do it & has been outstanding human since. Is that enough? I think a man beating a women is awful. I think drunk driving & killing a man is awful. I think being arrested with trunk full of 100k, guns, and tons of cocaine is pretty bad... Rapping a drunk girl in bathroom stall violently while you entourage guard all the doors & refuse friend from helping her... terrible. Those guys have been found guilty (well Big Ben I think I got off) & teams in sports have openly held their arms out for them. A kid who may be innocent for one of the absolute worst types of crimes when he was 15.... I don’t know. Guess it comes down to if you truly believe he never did it. I’m a dad to an 8 year old daughter so personally if he really did it, no way does he deserve a chance. Can’t tell me a 7th-9th grader has no clue that pulling down a 4-6 year olds pants & doing what is claimed is awful & wrong! But I don’t know the kid & if he did actually did it. All gray area. I say no for Brewers though. PR nightmare & while very good, not worth it. Too awful of a crime he is accused of.


First of all, yes, we should start another thread.
Second, if he was "just" asking the question, then don't qualify it by using what Ryan Braun, Jeffress or K-Rod did. Don't justify it by saying not all 15 year old's are as mature as others(or however it was worded) and don't advocate.

Ask the question like you did. If there is some debate as to his innocence(and I know that Keith Law and one other GM doesn't believe there is for whatever that is worth).

But what it would come down to for me is a invasive investigation by the team, I would demand a polygraph, psych reports and more, FAR more than you'd ever ask a normal player for and if he agreed and passed, I might take a chance on him and deal with the backlash.

If there was any doubt however, or if you think he did it, no way. If you believe he did it, then he's almost certainly going to do it again as that's just the way his brain his wired.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#44

Posted: June 05, 2018, 8:01 PM Post
Posts: 9409
The conversation is way off topic so this will be my last post in the discussion threads:

Whether you think it is possible he didn’t do it or not it doesn’t matter. You would be drafting someone who plead guilty and that is how he will be viewed. You have to take on the PR monster of a guilty man, because that’s how the justice system decided it.

I’d guess any team thinking about drafting him sees the way Oregon State and their fans treat him as hope you could get past any negative PR pretty easily.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#45

Posted: June 05, 2018, 8:12 PM Post
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Posts: 296
All I'll say about the Heimlich thing is that he is a free man, clear of the law and served his time. I'm not going to feel the least bit sorry for the guy if he never plays for a Major League baseball team or its affiliate because he did something in the past and his actions had these consequences. He still gets to live his life prison free. Not everyone in his situation is as lucky.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#46

Posted: June 05, 2018, 8:14 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 5525
jimmyjeromehardy7 said:
https://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/385703-274945-penalties-paid-heimlich-ready-to-return-for-beavers-baseball

Thought this was an interesting read on Heinrich. Not sure what to believe. Sad if he truly didn’t do it though.

This is a must-read.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#47

Posted: June 05, 2018, 8:15 PM Post
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Posts: 5525
SeaBass said:
All I'll say about the Heimlich thing is that he is a free man, clear of the law and served his time. I'm not going to feel the least bit sorry for the guy if he never plays for a Major League baseball team or its affiliate because he did something in the past and his actions had these consequences. He still gets to live his life prison free. Not everyone in his situation is as lucky.

Please read the article that jimmyjeromehardy7 quoted.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#48

Posted: June 05, 2018, 8:23 PM Post
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Posts: 296
I've read enough. He signed an official admission of guilt. Could that have been a decision to avoid a worse sentence? Sure. Only people that know for sure is the guy and the victim. He admitted guilt. Everything else is excuses.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#49

Posted: June 05, 2018, 8:43 PM Post
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Posts: 1762
Location: At the gettin' place
jimmyjeromehardy7 said:
https://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/385703-274945-penalties-paid-heimlich-ready-to-return-for-beavers-baseball

Thought this was an interesting read on Heinrich. Not sure what to believe. Sad if he truly didn’t do it though.


Thanks for sharing. That's the best article I've read on the topic in terms of laying out facts.


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Offline  Re: Luke Heimlich
#50

Posted: June 06, 2018, 9:35 AM Post
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Posts: 1724
Pretty simple to me. He served his punishment and has shown no signs that the behavior (whether he did or didn't do it) would be repeated. I wouldn't hesitate to take him if I was a GM and would be ready to justify the decision. I understand the frustration that victims and their families feel about the system, but from all indications Luke and his circumstances aren't the type of case you make an example of and try to ruin someones life. He served his punishment. He should be treated as such, not vilified forever. Whether he did it or didn't. period. We either have a legal system with punishment we agree upon as a society or we have mob rule and punishment that is proportionate to the victims/families outrage.

Grabbing pitch forks and storming the castle hasn't really worked for... ever...


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Offline  Re: Luke Heimlich
#51

Posted: June 06, 2018, 9:51 AM Post
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Posts: 4695
Location: Three Lakes, WI
xisxisxis said:
Pretty simple to me. He served his punishment and has shown no signs that the behavior (whether he did or didn't do it) would be repeated. I wouldn't hesitate to take him if I was a GM and would be ready to justify the decision. I understand the frustration that victims and their families feel about the system, but from all indications Luke and his circumstances aren't the type of case you make an example of and try to ruin someones life. He served his punishment. He should be treated as such, not vilified forever. Whether he did it or didn't. period. We either have a legal system with punishment we agree upon as a society or we have mob rule and punishment that is proportionate to the victims/families outrage.

Grabbing pitch forks and storming the castle hasn't really worked for... ever...


Spot on


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Offline  Re: Luke Heimlich
#52

Posted: June 06, 2018, 10:25 AM Post
Posts: 7548
xisxisxis said:
Pretty simple to me. He served his punishment and has shown no signs that the behavior (whether he did or didn't do it) would be repeated. I wouldn't hesitate to take him if I was a GM and would be ready to justify the decision. I understand the frustration that victims and their families feel about the system, but from all indications Luke and his circumstances aren't the type of case you make an example of and try to ruin someones life. He served his punishment. He should be treated as such, not vilified forever. Whether he did it or didn't. period. We either have a legal system with punishment we agree upon as a society or we have mob rule and punishment that is proportionate to the victims/families outrage.

Grabbing pitch forks and storming the castle hasn't really worked for... ever...


No, if he did it he should be vilified forever.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#53

Posted: June 06, 2018, 10:28 AM Post
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Global Moderator
Posts: 8984
MrTPlush said:
Sorry my post was greatly taken out of proportion. I was curious where the line is drawn on moral issues. .


I think most people in society today draw the line at child molestation.

Personally, I don't think the guy should be in jail forever but I also don't blame GMs for passing.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#54

Posted: June 06, 2018, 10:39 AM Post
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Posts: 91
Location: United States
MrTPlush said:
Why not draft Heimlich? Where exactly are we suppose to draw moral line? Just looking at the Brewers we have a nice slate of questionable moral decisions made by our players.

-Jeremy Jeffress has a substance abuse problem and drove drunk.
-Ryan Braun proved to be a pretty terrible human for a little while.
-K-Rod best a woman/wife I believe?
-Domestic violence across the league multiple times.

What he did is seriously messed up don’t get me wrong. He was young though and while he probably knew it was wrong he might not have understood the magnitude of wrong. He was at a confusing age 13-15 when he did it. Despite popular belief not everyone was as mature as the typical person at the age.

Does he deserve a chance? I don’t know. I don’t know that the PR hit is worth it. I don’t really get how some people deserve second chances, but others are automatically scum. Some people are applauded after doing wrong if they try to make up for it...doubt this kid would get a warm welcome if he tried to do anything good.

Once again I’m not sure what to think of him. I just find it interesting how much hate this wrong doing gets while the majority just doesn’t care about DUIs, cheaters, liars, and domestic violence in this sport. Heck we celebrate and remember Jose Fernandez who did hard drugs and possibly/probably killed some of his friends crashing a boat under the influence. His number will hang in the rafters forever.

I may be willing to accept your point if he were actually being contrite about it right now.

This guy threw at his own son in a father son game


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#55

Posted: June 06, 2018, 12:56 PM Post
Posts: 7473
Harry Doyle's JD said:
MrTPlush said:
Why not draft Heimlich? Where exactly are we suppose to draw moral line? Just looking at the Brewers we have a nice slate of questionable moral decisions made by our players.

-Jeremy Jeffress has a substance abuse problem and drove drunk.
-Ryan Braun proved to be a pretty terrible human for a little while.
-K-Rod best a woman/wife I believe?
-Domestic violence across the league multiple times.

What he did is seriously messed up don’t get me wrong. He was young though and while he probably knew it was wrong he might not have understood the magnitude of wrong. He was at a confusing age 13-15 when he did it. Despite popular belief not everyone was as mature as the typical person at the age.

Does he deserve a chance? I don’t know. I don’t know that the PR hit is worth it. I don’t really get how some people deserve second chances, but others are automatically scum. Some people are applauded after doing wrong if they try to make up for it...doubt this kid would get a warm welcome if he tried to do anything good.

Once again I’m not sure what to think of him. I just find it interesting how much hate this wrong doing gets while the majority just doesn’t care about DUIs, cheaters, liars, and domestic violence in this sport. Heck we celebrate and remember Jose Fernandez who did hard drugs and possibly/probably killed some of his friends crashing a boat under the influence. His number will hang in the rafters forever.

I may be willing to accept your point if he were actually being contrite about it right now.


Please read all the articles and comments. He proclaims his innocence and yet feels very sorry his family has been out through this. If his story is correct, I know of fellow teachers that have resigned despite proclaiming innocence over accusations


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Offline  Re: Luke Heimlich
#56

Posted: June 06, 2018, 2:30 PM Post
Posts: 7548
I read the article. Really doesn't say anything at all that means anything. Good family, religious family, yada yada. Doesn't change anything. Maybe he did it, maybe not. If he did, he deserves all the consequences. If he did not, yea it's a really crappy thing to be tagged with.

That's why I would never agree to a plea deal, ever. No way I could admit doing something like that. He did, attorney and family probably told him to plea, I get that.

Either he did it, or the mother coached her what to say. If he really didn't do it, why aren't they bringing a suit against the mother? One of many questions I have about this whole mess.

But the fact he proclaimed his innocence means absolutely nothing. As with the teachers you referenced. Maybe they did something, maybe they didn't. But of course they're going to proclaim their innocence. You know what? Chances are some of them did something, some of them didn't.


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Offline  Re: 2018 Draft Pick Discussion, Rounds 6-20
#57

Posted: June 06, 2018, 2:40 PM Post
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Posts: 17820
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
The kid has shown huge regret.


He pled guilty, the story got out and now he's denying that he did it. What part of that is huge regret?

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Luke Heimlich
#58

Posted: June 06, 2018, 3:55 PM Post

Tom Petty Apologist
Posts: 452
It's not always so black and white.

As a criminal defense attorney, I can tell you that I have had big cases, where people enter a plea to something less so as to avoid the unknown or losing a trial on something bigger. Often times, cases are resolved based upon the perceived "certainty" of a plea deal vs the uncertainty of trial.

I can also tell you that this "not being able to play MLB" would fall as a collateral consequence to his conviction - not unlike someone losing their right to own a firearm after a felony conviction, and that upon being advised of said collateral consequence during a plea colloquy that clients have balked at entering a plea and negotiations are restarted to avoid that charge/plea and that collateral consequence...because its not really about the truth or fairness, its about convictions for the State and avoiding an undersireable punishment for defendants.

I would not be at all surprised if all parties, including the State, went back in time and advised that this collateral consequence would be out there, that a different deal would have been made. On top of that, because juvie records are sealed, it should not have gotten out to begin with and that is always taken into consideration in juvie deals as well.

The entire case sounds like a headache for the Brewers or any MLB team so best to avoid, but it isnt black and white, I can assure you that.


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Offline  Re: Luke Heimlich
#59

Posted: June 06, 2018, 5:04 PM Post
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Heimlich went undrafted.


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Offline  Re: Luke Heimlich
#60

Posted: June 06, 2018, 5:19 PM Post
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Posts: 1724
He pled guilty, the story got out and now he's denying that he did it.

In case facts actually matter to you, I will point out that he has denied doing it since the beginning. The court appointed counselor had him in individual counseling because they specifically don't have people who deny the crime they have pled to in group counseling. It is in the counselors notes from the BEGINNING that he has denied doing anything like what he has been accused/pled guilty to. So, no he didn't start changing his story, at all, once the information got out. He has denied it from the beginning.

but it isnt black and white

I don't find anything in life that is black and white and I am amazed people can treat so many things as bits. Heck 32 bit color doesn't have enough shades to represent the complexity of some issues...


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