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BAA or WHIP

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Offline  BAA or WHIP
#1

Posted: August 06, 2008, 9:03 AM Post
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I'm not the greatest at evaluating statical tools (I'm a lemming). Which of these is the 'better' indicator of a pitchers success? Would one be more useful for examining a starter as opposed to a reliever?

Appreciate the feedback.


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Offline  BAA or WHIP
#2

Posted: August 06, 2008, 11:14 PM Post
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WHIP is going to give you a little bit more information because it looks at walks and hits. BAA is going to fluctuate a lot based on the defense behind the pitcher whether they are GB or FB and just plain luck. WHIP is a little less sensitive because walk rate is entirely in the pitchers control.


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Offline  BAA or WHIP
#3

Posted: August 07, 2008, 12:56 AM Post
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I would assume then relief pitchers would be measured better by Whip and BAA has more value in starters as they log a lot more innings. Is there another tool or measure I should look at?


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Offline  BAA or WHIP
#4

Posted: August 07, 2008, 3:38 AM Post
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K rate is important to look at when noticing changes in BAA. If the K rate is the same but the BAA changed, its probably just a sample/luck type thing and you can expect the pitcher to return to form.


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Offline  BAA or WHIP
#5

Posted: August 07, 2008, 10:11 AM Post
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One of the basics of evaluating a pitcher is comparing strikeouts and walks. Years ago, before I ever read about DIPS, I read that Ron Shandler of Baseball Forecaster never looked at ERA when evaluating pitchers. He recommended looking at the K:BB ratio and said that a good pitcher will have a 2:1 K:BB ratio. His experience was that evaluating pitchers like that was more successful than ERA. I don't even know if that was someone common knowledge before then, but that's where I first read it. Good to great pitchers will have a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio.


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Offline  BAA or WHIP
#6

Posted: August 07, 2008, 2:20 PM Post
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To echo kramnoj, K rate and BB rate are the foundation for any pitcher. And since they don't depend on the defense, you can use a relatively small sample to gauge both. BAA is just too dependant on the fielders and luck. Sure, after 3,000 innings, it tells you something but you usually don't have that luxury for most pitchers.

For quick and dirty, use FIP or xFIP (basically DIPS). FIP includes HR rate, xFIP assumes a league average HR/FB rate. Both can be found at hardballtimes:

[url=http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/?view=pitching&league_filter[]=2]http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/?view=pitching&league_filter[]=2[/url]


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Offline  BAA or WHIP
#7

Posted: August 27, 2008, 2:45 AM Post
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I think BAA can be deceiving, too. it'd take some more research, but i'd bet control-problem guys would have lower BAAs, just because players are probably les apt to swing at pitches and try to take the walk.

but don't you think, though, that some pitching stats can be taken with a higher or lower value based on if he's a bullpen guy or starter? having a bullpen guy who's a groundball pitcher, for example, i see as far more valuable to come in and induce a DP than a starter.


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Offline  BAA or WHIP
#8

Posted: September 04, 2008, 2:03 PM Post
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I think BAA can be deceiving, too.

It's not just about the hits, it's about what kind of hits they are and what you do with the other batters. If a guy walks a lot and gives up a lot of hits while never striking anyone out, he's less successful than a guy who allows hits at the same rate but walks few guys and strikes a lot of guys out. As mentioned, defense plays a big role as well, as a high GB pitcher with a stellar IF behind him will look better than he would with the 2007 Brewers IF backing him up.


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