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2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games

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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 6:17 AM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
Don't worry about Nats and Rays because the Cardinals will be winning the World Series.


*barf


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 6:25 AM Post
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Yeah, this NLCS is no good. Normally I'd root for an underdog, but I just wanted the Dodgers or maybe the Braves to get through. It won't be fun watching either the Cardinals or the team that beat us to make it to the World Series.

Go Astros?


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 6:27 AM Post
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dlk9s said:
Yeah, this NLCS is no good. Normally I'd root for an underdog, but I just wanted the Dodgers or maybe the Braves to get through. It won't be fun watching either the Cardinals or the team that beat us to make it to the World Series.

Go Astros?


I have no ill will against the Nationals. It's actually pretty neat IMO to see them make it this far after losing Mr. Universe in the offseason. Yeah, they beat the Brewers, but I would argue that was more the Brewers beating themselves.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 6:35 AM Post
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Nah, they can go straight to hell.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 6:38 AM Post
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dlk9s said:
Nah, they can go straight to hell.

Agreed


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 6:46 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
dlk9s said:
Yeah, this NLCS is no good. Normally I'd root for an underdog, but I just wanted the Dodgers or maybe the Braves to get through. It won't be fun watching either the Cardinals or the team that beat us to make it to the World Series.

Go Astros?


I have no ill will against the Nationals. It's actually pretty neat IMO to see them make it this far after losing Mr. Universe in the offseason. Yeah, they beat the Brewers, but I would argue that was more the Brewers beating themselves.


I'm OK with the Nats, if only because the Crew had no Yelich, was limping into the last week of the season with the health situations of Cain and Braun, the Nats did NOT do any of that Cub/Cardinal BS that made them hate-able, and because the Nats did lose Harper to one of those mega-deals.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 7:02 AM Post
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homer said:
If you need a chant to win a baseball game you aren't much of a baseball team.


Put yourself in the position of a Braves fan. It's the decisive game of a playoff series... they usually have the foam tomahawks... only this time, you get to the ballpark, and there's no tomahawk. Because a player on the team that the Braves have to beat to get to the NLCS complained to the media, and they front office of your home team backed down.

Some of the wind had to have gone out of the sails of the fans. The players had to have noticed that, too. The Cards, knowing the Braves backed off THEIR tradition in THEIR home park, had to have felt a bit of a mental boost going into the decisive game of a playoff series.

I guarantee you, if it had been Brewers-Braves in the NLDS, there's no Ryan Helsley on the Crew to make that complaint. There's no way the tomahawk chop WOULDN'T have been in full effect for Game 5 of a Brewers-Braves NLDS in SunTrust Park.

I think it's stupid to deny that Helsley managed to mitigate the Braves' home-field advantage in the decisive game of the 2019 NLDS. Maybe the Cards still light up the Braves in the top of the first for ten innings. But maybe it doesn't go that way, and you won't go broke betting that Braves fans are asking those questions right now.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 7:11 AM Post
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I think it is a pretty large stretch to think the tomahawk impacted the first inning of that game to the point they gave up 10 runs. I mean it would be a stretch to think it caused 1 or 2 runs, with 10 it is something way more than a stretch.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 7:15 AM Post
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clancyphile said:
homer said:
If you need a chant to win a baseball game you aren't much of a baseball team.


Put yourself in the position of a Braves fan. It's the decisive game of a playoff series... they usually have the foam tomahawks... only this time, you get to the ballpark, and there's no tomahawk. Because a player on the team that the Braves have to beat to get to the NLCS complained to the media, and they front office of your home team backed down.

Some of the wind had to have gone out of the sails of the fans. The players had to have noticed that, too. The Cards, knowing the Braves backed off THEIR tradition in THEIR home park, had to have felt a bit of a mental boost going into the decisive game of a playoff series.

I guarantee you, if it had been Brewers-Braves in the NLDS, there's no Ryan Helsley on the Crew to make that complaint. There's no way the tomahawk chop WOULDN'T have been in full effect for Game 5 of a Brewers-Braves NLDS in SunTrust Park.

I think it's stupid to deny that Helsley managed to mitigate the Braves' home-field advantage in the decisive game of the 2019 NLDS. Maybe the Cards still light up the Braves in the top of the first for ten innings. But maybe it doesn't go that way, and you won't go broke betting that Braves fans are asking those questions right now.


Counterpoint - The Tomahawk Chop is stupid, pretty blatantly racist, and MLB should have stepped in an put a stop to it long ago. Helsley should have never been in the position to have to take a stand.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 7:18 AM Post
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Ennder said:
I think it is a pretty large stretch to think the tomahawk impacted the first inning of that game to the point they gave up 10 runs. I mean it would be a stretch to think it caused 1 or 2 runs, with 10 it is something way more than a stretch.


With baseball, we can't tell for sure, either way.

But I don't think the Braves would have dumped the chop if it hadn't been for Helsley.

If it were Brewers-Braves, and the Crew has no one like Helsley to make that complaint, do you think the Braves still dump the chop for the decisive game in the NLDS?

Yes or no.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 7:24 AM Post
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clancyphile said:
Ennder said:
I think it is a pretty large stretch to think the tomahawk impacted the first inning of that game to the point they gave up 10 runs. I mean it would be a stretch to think it caused 1 or 2 runs, with 10 it is something way more than a stretch.


With baseball, we can't tell for sure, either way.

But I don't think the Braves would have dumped the chop if it hadn't been for Helsley.

If it were Brewers-Braves, and the Crew has no one like Helsley to make that complaint, do you think the Braves still dump the chop for the decisive game in the NLDS?

Yes or no.


No ... but the team being so quick to dump it when Helsley complained also tells me that deep down the team brass knows it's wrong and that it was only a matter of time before someone stepped in and ended it.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 7:26 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
clancyphile said:
Ennder said:
I think it is a pretty large stretch to think the tomahawk impacted the first inning of that game to the point they gave up 10 runs. I mean it would be a stretch to think it caused 1 or 2 runs, with 10 it is something way more than a stretch.


With baseball, we can't tell for sure, either way.

But I don't think the Braves would have dumped the chop if it hadn't been for Helsley.

If it were Brewers-Braves, and the Crew has no one like Helsley to make that complaint, do you think the Braves still dump the chop for the decisive game in the NLDS?

Yes or no.


No ... but the team being so quick to dump it when Helsley complained also tells me that deep down the team brass knows it's wrong and that it was only a matter of time before someone stepped in and ended it.


Exactly. I think it is a stupid, archaic gesture, but the fact that they did this is a public admittance of them feeling the same. They can't go back from this. Also, the kid was asked and answered. He said how he felt. It's not like he called a conference to blast the chop.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 7:35 AM Post
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brooks_quichenick said:
Enjoyed watching the mass exodus of Dodgers fans after that slam


Most Dodgers fans arrived in the 3rd inning and left in the 7th so they didn't actually see any of this carnage.

Had to read about it this morning though, lol.

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Online  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 7:38 AM Post
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I can't believe someone thinks this mattered in this game at all when they got pounced on in 1st inning. I guess I could see someone arguing if it got to late game in a crunch situation but couldn't do it and then gave up some runs. I wouldn't agree, but I'd get the discussion. In this case, the game was over before it started. My gut has also had me think the actual chop stuff isn't inherently racist/demeaning, but I also admit to not being informed or having read up on the history or anything so more than open to the other view on it if I knew more info.

The name Redskins on the other, clearly. I've also thought that an owner like Dan Snider who is publicly hated and a terrible owner would wisen up enough to get an easy PR win by changing the name and he still hasn't done it. Just seems like such an easy move


Last edited by tmwiese55 on October 10, 2019, 7:54 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 7:50 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
clancyphile said:
homer said:
If you need a chant to win a baseball game you aren't much of a baseball team.


Put yourself in the position of a Braves fan. It's the decisive game of a playoff series... they usually have the foam tomahawks... only this time, you get to the ballpark, and there's no tomahawk. Because a player on the team that the Braves have to beat to get to the NLCS complained to the media, and they front office of your home team backed down.

Some of the wind had to have gone out of the sails of the fans. The players had to have noticed that, too. The Cards, knowing the Braves backed off THEIR tradition in THEIR home park, had to have felt a bit of a mental boost going into the decisive game of a playoff series.

I guarantee you, if it had been Brewers-Braves in the NLDS, there's no Ryan Helsley on the Crew to make that complaint. There's no way the tomahawk chop WOULDN'T have been in full effect for Game 5 of a Brewers-Braves NLDS in SunTrust Park.

I think it's stupid to deny that Helsley managed to mitigate the Braves' home-field advantage in the decisive game of the 2019 NLDS. Maybe the Cards still light up the Braves in the top of the first for ten innings. But maybe it doesn't go that way, and you won't go broke betting that Braves fans are asking those questions right now.


Counterpoint - The Tomahawk Chop is stupid, pretty blatantly racist, and MLB should have stepped in an put a stop to it long ago. Helsley should have never been in the position to have to take a stand.


FSU has long had the approval of the Seminole tribe for the chop, as noted by NBC sports (https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/10/06/br ... seriously/).

The tomahawk chop was exported to the Atlanta Braves from Florida State University by a FSU alum (Deion Sanders). MLB even acknowledges that (https://www.mlb.com/news/tbt-reliving-d ... c163606644). Incidentally, just a little Youtube searching reveals that it was FSU fans attending Braves spring training games that started that tradition (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2R4KL6-Dtg).

So what we have is a Cherokee complaining about a Seminole-approved tradition from FSU that was exported to Atlanta via FSU fans supporting a FSU alum playing for the Braves and things took off from there.

The notion racism is involved is flat-out nonsense.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 8:03 AM Post
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clancyphile said:

FSU has long had the approval of the Seminole tribe for the chop, as noted by NBC sports (https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/10/06/br ... seriously/).

The tomahawk chop was exported to the Atlanta Braves from Florida State University by a FSU alum (Deion Sanders). MLB even acknowledges that (https://www.mlb.com/news/tbt-reliving-d ... c163606644). Incidentally, just a little Youtube searching reveals that it was FSU fans attending Braves spring training games that started that tradition (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2R4KL6-Dtg).

So what we have is a Cherokee complaining about a Seminole-approved tradition from FSU that was exported to Atlanta via FSU fans supporting a FSU alum playing for the Braves and things took off from there.

The notion racism is involved is flat-out nonsense.


So it's ok because it was originally used to cheer for an African American that played for the team 30 years ago? Um ... ok. I personally don't care how it got it's start in Atlanta. That doesn't change my opinion that it is stupid and, yes, racist.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 8:04 AM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
I can't believe someone thinks this mattered in this game at all when they got pounced on in 1st inning. I guess I could see someone arguing if it got to late game in a crunch situation but couldn't do it and then gave up some runs. I wouldn't agree, but I'd get the discussion. In this case, the game was over before it started. My gut has also had me think the actual chop stuff isn't inherently racist/demeaning, but I also admit to not being informed or having read up on the history or anything so more than open to the other view on it if I knew more info.

The name Redskins on the other, clearly. I've also thought that an owner like Dan Snider who is publicly hated and a terrible owner would wisen up enough to get an easy PR win by changing the name and he still hasn't done it. Just seems like such an easy move


Well, the most common response to the "Redskins" name among Native Americans, per NBC sports reporting on a Washington Post poll from this past August, is...

"Proud."

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... on-answer/

Tracks with results from a 2016 poll showing 90 percent support for the name.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... -redskins/


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 8:07 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
clancyphile said:

FSU has long had the approval of the Seminole tribe for the chop, as noted by NBC sports (https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/10/06/br ... seriously/).

The tomahawk chop was exported to the Atlanta Braves from Florida State University by a FSU alum (Deion Sanders). MLB even acknowledges that (https://www.mlb.com/news/tbt-reliving-d ... c163606644). Incidentally, just a little Youtube searching reveals that it was FSU fans attending Braves spring training games that started that tradition (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2R4KL6-Dtg).

So what we have is a Cherokee complaining about a Seminole-approved tradition from FSU that was exported to Atlanta via FSU fans supporting a FSU alum playing for the Braves and things took off from there.

The notion racism is involved is flat-out nonsense.


So it's ok because it was originally used to cheer for an African American that played for the team 30 years ago? Um ... ok. I personally don't care how it got it's start in Atlanta. That doesn't change my opinion that it is stupid and, yes, racist.


Nice that you seem to ignore the Seminole-approved part.

Sometimes a team's front office needs to stick up for their fans - especially against a visiting team's player when the complaint is clearly nonsense.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 8:09 AM Post
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clancyphile said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
clancyphile said:

FSU has long had the approval of the Seminole tribe for the chop, as noted by NBC sports (https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/10/06/br ... seriously/).

The tomahawk chop was exported to the Atlanta Braves from Florida State University by a FSU alum (Deion Sanders). MLB even acknowledges that (https://www.mlb.com/news/tbt-reliving-d ... c163606644). Incidentally, just a little Youtube searching reveals that it was FSU fans attending Braves spring training games that started that tradition (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2R4KL6-Dtg).

So what we have is a Cherokee complaining about a Seminole-approved tradition from FSU that was exported to Atlanta via FSU fans supporting a FSU alum playing for the Braves and things took off from there.

The notion racism is involved is flat-out nonsense.


So it's ok because it was originally used to cheer for an African American that played for the team 30 years ago? Um ... ok. I personally don't care how it got it's start in Atlanta. That doesn't change my opinion that it is stupid and, yes, racist.


Nice that you seem to ignore the Seminole-approved part.

Sometimes a team's front office needs to stick up for their fans - especially against a visiting team's player when the complaint is clearly nonsense.


I wasn't. I assume that Florida State has made rather large "donations" to the Seminole tribe over the years.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 8:17 AM Post
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clancyphile said:
I think it's stupid to deny that Helsley managed to mitigate the Braves' home-field advantage in the decisive game of the 2019 NLDS.


Eh, it's pretty stupid.

Also, Braves fans still did the chop during the game.

Also, it's racist.


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