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2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]

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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 2:34 PM Post
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FVBrewerFan said:
RR wont need to explain anything. Our local media wont press the issue, and the natl media wont care.

Exactly. If he is even asked, he'll just respond with something like, "I like McGehee there," and that will be the end of it.


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 2:36 PM Post
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I saw this coming ever since St. Louis clinched the Wild Card.

RR, you had three lefties off the bench. Weeks was godawful, too.


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 2:36 PM Post
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Ron, if Kotsay's instincts aren't as sharp because he doesn't play everyday, why is he starting then? Shouldn't you play someone who "has sharp insticts?"


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 2:37 PM Post
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Hey everyone, lets stop ripping on RR because were only assuming that Gomez could have gotten to those balls. Lots of things could have happened. I mean, Gomez could have tripped, that $%+$% squirrel could have run in front of him, or heck-he could have even set himself on fire somehow! We'll never know!


Last edited by crossface21 on October 12, 2011, 2:49 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 2:37 PM Post
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I think most managers would have gone with a power fastball hitter in the last at-bat. Problem was he got down in the count and had to chase. It's frustrating he took the pitch down the middle for a strike. I don't think Kotaras would have gone yard there either... it's not RR fault that the last batter of the game with two strikes didn't score the tying run. Much more problems before that. Ron could have put a pillow in at the end and I wouldn't blame the game on the manager.

I didn't like Kotsay in there either to start, but he did get a walk and hit a home run. I think that's a pretty good day at the plate, which is more production than what Morgan has been doing. He gave up a run in the field, but added a run with his bat. Too bad there weren't any runners on. Yo shouldn't have been giving up long fly-balls in the first place.

Braun and Fielder needed to come up big, and they didn't. That was my biggest disappointment. We don't expect Yuni to go 2-4 every game, but we should have a lead-off hitter who gets on to give the heart of the lineup RBI opportunities. That didn't happen and Braun and Fielder were too quiet to give even the bottom of the line-up a chance for hits.

Pitching-wise, Ron managed the game perfectly. The only 1-2-3 inning of the game for the Brewers came from the guy who caused all of you to say what an idiot RR is. He walked Pujols twice, obviously worked out great.


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 2:39 PM Post
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I don't think people would of had a huge problem if Kotsay would have started in place of Hart but to start him in CF is inexcusable


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 2:43 PM Post
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Kotsay didn't give up A run in the field, he gave up 3 as Yadi's double play would've ended the inning so Pujols doesn't score.

"The beauty of baseball is you can have Juan Pierre & Adam Dunn on the field at the same time, and not know which of the two is the better player."


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 2:45 PM Post
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crossface21 said:
Hey everyone, lets stop ripping on RR because were only assuming that Gomez could have gotten to those balls.
Sure, because its only been 29 years since we've been in a League Championship Series. Yep, no big deal. Its not Ron Roenicke's fault. I'm quite sure there are other MLB managers who would start Mark Kotsay in a playoff game in CF. Yep...


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 2:46 PM Post
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RR is being out managed by TLR I hate to admit that but you ned to put the best Defensive Players on the Field and I will be very PO at RR if Gomez is not in CF Tomorrow. But this team has to find hitters beside Braun and Prince. Well we still need only one victory her in STL. Guys we need to relax it only one loss and we did not get blown out .The Crew will win a game either wed or there you see have faith Brewers nation.Tomorrow i feel the bats will come out banging in the next two games.


Last edited by brewmann04 on October 12, 2011, 2:50 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 2:52 PM Post
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RR is being out managed by TLR

This seems like saying 'getting punched in the nuts doesn't hurt as much as not getting punched in the nuts.' I wish there were words to describe what I feel towards this joke of a manager right now.

"The key is identifying the moment. The worst is when you try to do it halfway: when you think you can compete and you also think you're trying to rebuild. Then you're stuck in no-man's-land. You either do it or you don't." -- Billy Beane


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 2:53 PM Post
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It also be nice if the Brewers can find a way to either grab a lead or keep the cards off the board early for a change.


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 3:00 PM Post
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They had that chance today. Anybody but Kotsay out there and the Cards get 1 run tops.

"The beauty of baseball is you can have Juan Pierre & Adam Dunn on the field at the same time, and not know which of the two is the better player."


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 3:02 PM Post
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RR made some horrible lineup decisions, he apparently lacks the capacity to think. However, RR can't actually swing the bat. The Brewers don't have ONE HIT IN THE SERIES WITH 2 OUTS. That's incredible. 3 games, 0 hits with 2 outs. Tough to win like that.


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 3:03 PM Post
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sveumrules said:
Kotsay didn't give up A run in the field, he gave up 3 as Yadi's double play would've ended the inning so Pujols doesn't score.

You can't assume the same exact results would have happened given an out in that situation. A double play after an out could have kept the inning scoreless... Pujols could have hit it out on the first pitch. The fact is, Yo was pitching terribly and the Cardinals batted around. Kotsay shouldn't be in that situation to run down the ball... Yo should have kept it down to get a ground ball, not a hard hit to the gap... and you should trust in your 'ace' enough that a single run-down in centerfield isn't the difference in the game.

I would rather have Gomez, but who knows, Gomez has had some bone-head base-running moves and defensive plays against the Cardinals this year too.

I think the pitching match-ups were great in the end, and he put the team in good position to succeed. He put the matchups in to give the brewers 8 scoreless innings, despite everyone complaining about Narveson in the 8th.



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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 3:10 PM Post
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Kotsay shouldn't be in that situation to run down the ball

Correct, only an idiotic decision would have put him in center field.


you should trust in your 'ace' enough that a single run-down in centerfield isn't the difference in the game.

But if it was two, then the manager might look really, really, really stupid.

"The key is identifying the moment. The worst is when you try to do it halfway: when you think you can compete and you also think you're trying to rebuild. Then you're stuck in no-man's-land. You either do it or you don't." -- Billy Beane


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 3:13 PM Post
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a3uge said:
sveumrules said:
Kotsay didn't give up A run in the field, he gave up 3 as Yadi's double play would've ended the inning so Pujols doesn't score.

You can't assume the same exact results would have happened given an out in that situation. A double play after an out could have kept the inning scoreless... Pujols could have hit it out on the first pitch. The fact is, Yo was pitching terribly and the Cardinals batted around. Kotsay shouldn't be in that situation to run down the ball... Yo should have kept it down to get a ground ball, not a hard hit to the gap... and you should trust in your 'ace' enough that a single run-down in centerfield isn't the difference in the game.

I would rather have Gomez, but who knows, Gomez has had some bone-head base-running moves and defensive plays against the Cardinals this year too.

I think the pitching match-ups were great in the end, and he put the team in good position to succeed. He put the matchups in to give the brewers 8 scoreless innings, despite everyone complaining about Narveson in the 8th.

I think Yo was too concerned that a ball hit anywhere was going to result in it going to the wall, so he tried to get too fine. Had Gomez been in there to make the play in the first with Jay, I honestly think Yo settles down a bit, realizes he doesn't have to be perfect and is OK. I really think that one play is potentially the difference in this game. Who knows if I'm right, but at the very least it saves one run, and probably more.


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 3:14 PM Post
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The outcome of the NLCS was sealed the moment "Tony Plush" started ranting and raving about Pujols being a woman and watching the Brewers in the playoffs from the couch. Meanwhile Morgan has been miserable in the playoffs and the woman is destroying the Brewers.


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 3:15 PM Post
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The worst part is Kotsay's HR most likely justifies his being in the game in RRs mind and his "hunch" to start him proved to provide a positive. He will obviously neglect the defensive part because that didn't work out so well...


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 8:38 PM Post
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You people are so eager to jump on Mark Kotsay...wow. Sure, there was one ball he almost caught that Gomez or Morgan probably gets, but he hit a HR and reached base three times. The fourth and deciding run is squarely on Corey Hart with his typical half-speed whiff out in RF missing the Freese double. Oh, and an 0-4 day from the leadoff spot. Weeks had a huge strikeout in the 5th trying to yank it on 3-2. Lucroy and Fielder left 3 on base. It's a team game. The Kotsay/RR mauling is tired and over-the-top.


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Offline  2011-10-12 Brewers (Gallardo) at Cardinals (Carpenter) - [Brewers lose, 4-3; trail NLCS, 2-1]
Posted: October 12, 2011, 11:06 PM Post
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No one is getting on Kotsay. Its Ron who we have the problem with.

Players like Weeks will have bad games and that play by Corey should have been caught but its not the first time he has missed balls like that. But both of those guys are just as likely to make plays than they are not.

In no universe should Kotsay ever be starting in CF. More often than not you are going to get exactly what happened, Kotsay not getting to a ball that others would have and in this particular case it was huge as it led to 3 runs and extra pitches Yo didn't have to throw.

When that happens you are going to have people up in arms and for good reason. It is all about what is most likely to have happen and starting Kotsay in CF is likely to hurt, unfortunately today it hurt a lot.


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