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2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games

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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 8:18 AM Post
Posts: 3780
clancyphile said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
clancyphile said:

FSU has long had the approval of the Seminole tribe for the chop, as noted by NBC sports (https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/10/06/br ... seriously/).

The tomahawk chop was exported to the Atlanta Braves from Florida State University by a FSU alum (Deion Sanders). MLB even acknowledges that (https://www.mlb.com/news/tbt-reliving-d ... c163606644). Incidentally, just a little Youtube searching reveals that it was FSU fans attending Braves spring training games that started that tradition (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2R4KL6-Dtg).

So what we have is a Cherokee complaining about a Seminole-approved tradition from FSU that was exported to Atlanta via FSU fans supporting a FSU alum playing for the Braves and things took off from there.

The notion racism is involved is flat-out nonsense.


So it's ok because it was originally used to cheer for an African American that played for the team 30 years ago? Um ... ok. I personally don't care how it got it's start in Atlanta. That doesn't change my opinion that it is stupid and, yes, racist.


Nice that you seem to ignore the Seminole-approved part.

Sometimes a team's front office needs to stick up for their fans - especially against a visiting team's player when the complaint is clearly nonsense.

Are you Native American? I mean, who the heck are you to speak for an entire ethnic group(s)? Further, you site a couple of surveys (not polls mind you) that contacted 1000 Native Americans in total and claim that proves a point? The below link clearly indicates the enormous number of indigenous tribes and associated groups that do NOT think this is nonsense and DEFINITELY have an issue with the name. You are just wrong here in almost every way and frankly, just offensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_W ... _advocates

but it's not like every guy suddenly forgot every piece of advice he gave


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 8:22 AM Post
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The Weatherman
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FSU reached out and got official approval. The Braves have not. The Braves have ignored the issues with the chop rather than facing them. So it shouldn’t be a surprise when they get into the playoffs, play the chop song after every single pitch, and then get questions from the media about it which leads to controversy.

These traditions were initially appropriated without permission. Doesn’t really matter if they are “racist” or not, what matters is that it was disrespectful and if you are going to continue using them you better be going above and beyond to reach out to a large number of tribal communities and get overwhelming approval. Or better yet recognize that it was stolen and just stop without having to be forced to do so after public outcry. Zero sympathy for the Braves.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 8:26 AM Post
Posts: 4712
Location: Madison, WI
clancyphile said:
tmwiese55 said:
I can't believe someone thinks this mattered in this game at all when they got pounced on in 1st inning. I guess I could see someone arguing if it got to late game in a crunch situation but couldn't do it and then gave up some runs. I wouldn't agree, but I'd get the discussion. In this case, the game was over before it started. My gut has also had me think the actual chop stuff isn't inherently racist/demeaning, but I also admit to not being informed or having read up on the history or anything so more than open to the other view on it if I knew more info.

The name Redskins on the other, clearly. I've also thought that an owner like Dan Snider who is publicly hated and a terrible owner would wisen up enough to get an easy PR win by changing the name and he still hasn't done it. Just seems like such an easy move


Well, the most common response to the "Redskins" name among Native Americans, per NBC sports reporting on a Washington Post poll from this past August, is...

"Proud."

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... on-answer/

Tracks with results from a 2016 poll showing 90 percent support for the name.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... -redskins/


The term in itself is indisputably racist. It's the equivalent of the N bomb for that group of people. A term like Brave or Chief in itself doesn't seem like it would be as you could be taking honor in the bravery of those people, think of it on par with something like Spartans in that sense. It would become racist/demeaning if you then start making a mockery of them with negative stereotypes and caricatures, which is where the chop discussion comes into it.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 8:33 AM Post
Posts: 3780
tmwiese55 said:
The term in itself is indisputably racist. It's the equivalent of the N bomb for that group of people. A term like Brave or Chief in itself doesn't seem like it would be as you could be taking honor in the bravery of those people, think of it on par with something like Spartans in that sense. It would become racist/demeaning if you then start making a mockery of them with negative stereotypes and caricatures, which is where the chop discussion comes into it.

To your point, FSU went far beyond just getting approval and in fact worked with the Tribe to eliminate, or change, a number of traditions that once existed on campus that the tribe felt were racist/demeaning. That says nothing of the lengths that FSU goes to in order to make sure that students and student athletes view their School nickname with reverence. What Washington and Atlanta are doing is the nonsense part of all of this.

but it's not like every guy suddenly forgot every piece of advice he gave


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 8:54 AM Post
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Can't imagine too many Pirates fans are pumped for tonight's Glasnow/Cole match up.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 8:55 AM Post
Posts: 3780
sveumrules said:
Can't imagine too many Pirates fans are pumped for tonight's Glasnow/Cole match up.

LOL, hadn't even thought of that yet.

but it's not like every guy suddenly forgot every piece of advice he gave


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 8:56 AM Post
Posts: 4596
sveumrules said:
Can't imagine too many Pirates fans are pumped for tonight's Glasnow/Cole match up.


Tiffany's "Could've Been" would probably be on the playlist of every Pirates fan at the start of game time...


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 9:19 AM Post
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clancyphile said:
sveumrules said:
Can't imagine too many Pirates fans are pumped for tonight's Glasnow/Cole match up.


Tiffany's "Could've Been" would probably be on the playlist of every Pirates fan at the start of game time...


Half of bfnet's population are googling Tiffany and that song now to find out what the heck you are talking about...lol

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 9:28 AM Post
Posts: 4596
turborickey said:
clancyphile said:
sveumrules said:
Can't imagine too many Pirates fans are pumped for tonight's Glasnow/Cole match up.


Tiffany's "Could've Been" would probably be on the playlist of every Pirates fan at the start of game time...


Half of bfnet's population are googling Tiffany and that song now to find out what the heck you are talking about...lol


That song runs through my head for the Brewers for the last half of the 1980s.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 10:28 AM Post
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sveumrules said:
Can't imagine too many Pirates fans are pumped for tonight's Glasnow/Cole match up.

Tonight's game might well be the last one I pay much attention to in 2019. I'd be okay with either HOU or TB advancing, though I'd guess the Astros have a better chance at eliminating NYY. (I follow the NL more closely by a long shot, and these takes reflect that.)

Somehow I'm not full of anger at the Nationals for eliminating the Brewers this go-round. Now, in part that's in contrast to my ongoing fire-of-a-billion-suns hatred for their NLCS opponent, but I also enjoyed the trip we took to Nationals Park in 2010.

Mostly, the less I see of STL and NYY, the better off I am...but the chance of that exact matchup marring our lives is pretty real. [sad]

Remember: the Brewers never panic like you do.


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Online  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 10:58 AM Post
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clancyphile said:
Nice that you seem to ignore the Seminole-approved part.


Just because one tribe is okay with it doesn't mean all tribes have to be okay with it.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Online  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 11:09 AM Post
Posts: 11884
I oddly was cheering for the Dodgers to win it all. High payroll or not that team is run incredibly well all things considered. They deserve a WS title....just one though, then they can suck because they are a big market. Really that team is quite likable player wise.

At this point cheering for the Rays...good luck to them though.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 11:35 AM Post
Posts: 4712
Location: Madison, WI
Agree with your LAD take. They pretty much haven't one since I was too young to remember. They're extremely well run and I kind of feel bad for Kershaw at this point. Crazy in this 8ish year run they haven't gotten one. I'd have been fine with it. Funny how what every jabroni like us on the internet said at the deadline ended up being true though with their pen, can't believe they didn't do anything to help it out


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 12:09 PM Post
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However oddly, I would have been okay with the Dodgers winning last night and the rest of this season. That's partly because if they won out they'd have eliminated the Cardinals**...but I remember watching the Kirk Gibson Game 1 moment in 1988 on my dorm room TV during graduate school. I now have to acknowledge that is a long time ago. I hadn't even met my S.O. yet! (not for a few months)

That doesn't mean it wasn't tough to see them end the Brewers' 2018 season. Somehow, for me, it was not as tough as 2011.

**Yes, clearly my MLB emotional issues tend to involve the Cardinals. I have no reason to pretend otherwise.

Remember: the Brewers never panic like you do.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 12:46 PM Post
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I'm on board the "anyone but the Cards or Yankees" train.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 2:21 PM Post
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What's crazy is for all the talk of strengths and weaknesses and everything everyone did wrong this season, the Cardinals are playing in the LCS and the Brewers were hairs from pushing them to a 163 that they obviously could have won. Just a few pitches potentially determined where we are.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 3:27 PM Post
Posts: 1116
Location: Wisconsin
OldSchoolSnapper said:
What's crazy is for all the talk of strengths and weaknesses and everything everyone did wrong this season, the Cardinals are playing in the LCS and the Brewers were hairs from pushing them to a 163 that they obviously could have won. Just a few pitches potentially determined where we are.


In other words, it matters to play basically .500 ball for 5 months.

It makes it easier to advance in the playoffs when you win the division, or even get the home field in the wild card game.

“Every game matters” is more than a slogan.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 4:52 PM Post
Posts: 4429
trwi7 said:
clancyphile said:
Nice that you seem to ignore the Seminole-approved part.


Just because one tribe is okay with it doesn't mean all tribes have to be okay with it.


I basically agreed with your position so far but the Seminoles were the tribe the team was named after.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Online  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 4:59 PM Post
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At least the Pirates twitter account has a sense of humor.

https://twitter.com/Pirates/status/1182429398525448195

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: 2019 MLB Playoffs: NLDS & ALDS Games
Posted: October 10, 2019, 7:08 PM Post
Posts: 1229
owbc said:
FSU reached out and got official approval. The Braves have not. The Braves have ignored the issues with the chop rather than facing them. So it shouldn’t be a surprise when they get into the playoffs, play the chop song after every single pitch, and then get questions from the media about it which leads to controversy.

These traditions were initially appropriated without permission. Doesn’t really matter if they are “racist” or not, what matters is that it was disrespectful and if you are going to continue using them you better be going above and beyond to reach out to a large number of tribal communities and get overwhelming approval. Or better yet recognize that it was stolen and just stop without having to be forced to do so after public outcry. Zero sympathy for the Braves.


This.

The FSU thing is different. It is. It is a college team in a community, and the nickname and associated gestures have been negotiated by community leaders. That hasn't happened in Atlanta. It hasn't happened in Cleveland. It hasn't happened in Washington. All three of those teams have generic, broad-brush names that claim to speak for all tribes. That's the issue here, and it means they have a higher burden than FSU.


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